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yankee@moscow
19-02-2005, 13:53
So what's the predictions of the outcome of the Bush - Putin Summit coming up? Here are my predictions:

1 - Shashlik with Texas Bbq sauce.
2 - Condaleza Rice will have a whole new page on her "to do" list when they are done.
3 - There will be public displays of affection between two of the most powerful men on the planet, but then they will screw each other later.
4 - Not much will change.

I hope I'm wrong!

jheisel
19-02-2005, 15:29
The only problem is that Bush isn't coming to Moscow. The summit is in Bratislava.

yankee@moscow
19-02-2005, 16:00
Where's that?

85StoneWhiteFurball
19-02-2005, 16:02
Slovenia

kniga
19-02-2005, 16:13
Where's that? :-)

85StoneWhiteFurball
19-02-2005, 16:15
It is the area around Metro Bratislavskaya.

kniga
19-02-2005, 16:18
Bear,

LOL! :-)

boscoe
19-02-2005, 16:31
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
There will be public displays of affection between two of the most powerful men on the planet

I thought it was a Bush - Putin summit?

Kingwillhe
19-02-2005, 17:45
Well, one always misbehaves a bit when away from home.

Leslie Presley
19-02-2005, 18:29
I do hope that Mr Putin doesn't bend over in front of the Fabulous Mr Bush!

trebor
19-02-2005, 19:41
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
............3 - There will be public displays of affection between two of the most powerful men on the planet.......

What, Chinese Premiere will be attending too! :D

Olim
19-02-2005, 19:55
No, Rupert Murdoch and Sven Goran Erikson

koba65
19-02-2005, 20:04
Originally posted by Olim
No, Rupert Murdoch and Sven Goran Erikson

Or Dick Cheney and Bill Gates

Pumkinshell
19-02-2005, 22:18
Originally posted by 85StoneWhiteFurball
Slovenia

I understand for a political forum we can't expect an overaged male with eight cats know geography - but nevertheless, it's slovakia. It's so pleasing to teach Americans!

85StoneWhiteFurball
19-02-2005, 22:19
:getlost: GOTCHA! Bush himself confuses Slovakia and Slovenia! That was the joke! :getlost:

Pumkinshell
19-02-2005, 22:29
Originally posted by 85StoneWhiteFurball
:getlost: That was the joke! :getlost:

Yeah right. Joke my ***. You are showing a wrong finger for a wanna-be moderator, granny.

85StoneWhiteFurball
19-02-2005, 22:31
The others got it, fool. And you are the dumbest windup this side of the detsky sad. Now :getlost:

Pumkinshell
19-02-2005, 22:40
Originally posted by 85StoneWhiteFurball
The others got it, fool. And you are the dumbest windup this side of the detsky sad. Now :getlost:

Oh come on, grandma! You can't get so excited - mind your heart. Just give one of your eight pussies a stroke, doctors say it's good for your high blood pressure.

Olim
19-02-2005, 22:44
Originally posted by 85StoneWhiteFurball
The others got it, fool.

Are you turning into Mr. T?

Here are some others for you to get to grips with:


"Quit your jibber-jabber"

"Don't gimme no back-talk, sucka!"

"Don't make me mad. Grrrr!"

"First name: Mister, middle name: period, last name: T"

and of course the classic:

"I aint gettin on no plaaaaaaaaaaane"

Ned Kelly
20-02-2005, 12:38
i'd like to see bush call putin on the rotten little kgb-bureaucrat-oligarchy he is creating through sechin-rosneft and how the road he's taking russia down is one to nowhere; only thing is he'd have to fire cheney and prosecute haliburton to have any credibility in saying it.

let's face it, they're both pretty depressing characters: though you'd have to say bush is looking on the up while putin is in a definite downward spiral.

Bluebird
20-02-2005, 13:53
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i'd like to see bush call putin on the rotten little kgb-bureaucrat-oligarchy he is creating through sechin-rosneft and how the road he's taking russia down is one to nowhere; only thing is he'd have to fire cheney and prosecute haliburton to have any credibility in saying it.

let's face it, they're both pretty depressing characters: though you'd have to say bush is looking on the up while putin is in a definite downward spiral. Am I missing something here, or are the written English language skills of our beloved Ned on a downward spiral too...??? I always thought, perhaps mistakenly, that peoples' names were started with capital letters...I.e. As in, capital "B" for Bush and a capital "P" for Putin...:D

koba65
20-02-2005, 13:56
Originally posted by Bluebird
Am I missing something here, or are the written English language skills of our beloved Ned on a downward spiral too...??? I always thought, perhaps mistakenly, that peoples' names were started with capital letters...I.e. As in, capital "B" for Bush and capital "P" for Putin...:D

ned kelly is actually e e cummings - damn, there I go again violating the "don't post personal information of another member" - hope I don't get banned for it.

Bluebird
20-02-2005, 14:00
Originally posted by koba65
ned kelly is actually e e cummings - damn, there I go again violating the "don't post personal information of another member" - hope I don't get banned for it. Not a chance Koba...This site would never be that same without you...:cool:

yankee@moscow
20-02-2005, 14:06
Originally posted by Ned Kelly


let's face it, they're both pretty depressing characters: though you'd have to say bush is looking on the up while putin is in a definite downward spiral.

In all honesty, I think that a lot of the things that Putin is doing are intended to help the country. However, what he is failing to plan for is the time after he is not in office. Maybe, just maybe, Putin is trustworthy enough to hold all the power that he's gained, but I can guarantee that future Presidents of Russia won't be able to handle all of that power without checks and balances.

Putin's direct political actions don't frighten me. It's the next guy and the guy after that which will possibly turn the country back into a dictatorship based on what Putin is doing now. Absolute power is never a good thing in anyone's hands. History has proven that time and time again.

Ned Kelly
20-02-2005, 15:12
i disagree yankee: he's a mediocrity who since re-election has had his hands freed to implement an agenda long held by kgb-bureaucrat types. it's turned out to be a disaster but he's narrowed his circle to such an extent that he doesn't know how to change course so he just keeps on running the country into the ground.

putin's gutting of the few flimsy institutions in the country is political cowardice. he will be recalled as a passing phase in history, nothing of note.

after bush got french support on the un resolution calling on syria to withdraw from lebanon i'm starting to suspect his radical policies will end up being vindicated. that doesn't change my view that he's a simpeton who gambles with a hell of a lot of innocent lives in pursuit of abstract goals. a pretty hideous combination.

bluebird, your writing is an abomination. shut it!

Bluebird
20-02-2005, 15:17
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i disagree yankee: he's a mediocrity who since re-election has had his hands freed to implement an agenda long held by kgb-bureaucrat types. it's turned out to be a disaster but he's narrowed his circle to such an extent that he doesn't know how to change course so he just keeps on running the country into the ground.

putin's gutting of the few flimsy institutions in the country is political cowardice. he will be recalled as a passing phase in history, nothing of note.

after bush got french support on the un resolution calling on syria to withdraw from lebanon i'm starting to suspect his radical policies will end up being vindicated. that doesn't change my view that he's a simpeton who gambles with a hell of a lot of innocent lives in pursuit of abstract goals. a pretty hideous combination.

bluebird, your writing is an abomination. shut it! Errr, what "absract" goals, for example? :)

yankee@moscow
20-02-2005, 15:24
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i disagree yankee: he's a mediocrity who since re-election has had his hands freed to implement an agenda long held by kgb-bureaucrat types. it's turned out to be a disaster but he's narrowed his circle to such an extent that he doesn't know how to change course so he just keeps on running the country into the ground.

putin's gutting of the few flimsy institutions in the country is political cowardice. he will be recalled as a passing phase in history, nothing of note.

after bush got french support on the un resolution calling on syria to withdraw from lebanon i'm starting to suspect his radical policies will end up being vindicated. that doesn't change my view that he's a simpeton who gambles with a hell of a lot of innocent lives in pursuit of abstract goals. a pretty hideous combination.

bluebird, your writing is an abomination. shut it!

I'm not in disagreement with your statements, but he still isn't as much of a danger to us as the next guys could be. Yes, he's not exactly paving a path to a golden present or future right now, but that doesn't concern me as much as the long term effects that his power grabbing is going to cause.

It's debatable if he thinks his policies are for the good of the Russian people or not, but I think that he may actually believe it somehow. He seems to be of the mindset that the Russian people need a strong heavy handed central leader that controls things. I think he actually believes it.

Ned Kelly
20-02-2005, 15:34
i'll never understand the need to put in a smiley for no reason.

the notion of spreading democracy is noble but the resuts you get may not be what you're after. a lot of the iraqi electorate likely hate israel, want a big army, believe the us has brought ruin on the country etc and will end up electing a government to reflect this.

would that justify saddam's ouster? at the end of the day, without wmd that's all it has come to (and i supported the invasion just for saddam's ouster, as he was a monster, but you have to ask whether it was worth it).

meanwhile, threatening iran is well and good. (it's a scary prospect their having nuclear weapons and putin assisting in their construction is a mockery of his foreign policy and again shows he's happier allowing state officials to line their pockets than taking hard decisions to protect russia's national interests). but in rattling the sabre bush risks rallying a population that from my understanding is disillusioned with the mullahs, around them, by providing a serious external threat.

then you have saudia arabia whose political system makes putin's look transparent and accountable and bush makes no threats (yes, there were words, but they were lame).

it all sort of means well, but it not particularly consistent and coherent and how it is going to improve us security is questionable.

Ned Kelly
20-02-2005, 15:36
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
I'm not in disagreement with your statements, but he still isn't as much of a danger to us as the next guys could be.

yankee, "us" has nothing to do with it. the system he has buit is inherently unstable domestically and internationally. it could collapse like a house of cards.

yankee@moscow
20-02-2005, 15:41
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
yankee, "us" has nothing to do with it. the system he has buit is inherently unstable domestically and internationally. it could collapse like a house of cards.

And then what? That's when the "us" comes in, as in all of "us". Even if it doesn't collapse, the unchecked power is dangerous in the wrong hands. Who knows what may or may not happen with that power?

85StoneWhiteFurball
20-02-2005, 15:46
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
yankee, "us" has nothing to do with it. the system he has buit is inherently unstable domestically and internationally. it could collapse like a house of cards.

I think that Putin knows this, and that shortly (or at the very least at the end of his term), there will be a surprise transfer of power. It could take the form of appointment of a prime minister who will prove both popular and reformist - or even a surprise resignation. Like Yeltsin before him, I believe that Putin knows that his position is that of a transition figure. I also believe that he wishes to act in Russia's best interest, and that the main problem is that he is not as strong as he thought he was - he is playing with fire in allying himself with certain groups in the Kremlin and he needs to do something before they turn on him and ruin Russia in the process.

Ned Kelly
20-02-2005, 15:48
i mean in the sense that i'm on russia's side in this. i want it to succeed.

Bluebird
20-02-2005, 15:49
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i'll never understand the need to put in a smiley for no reason.

the notion of spreading democracy is noble but the resuts you get may not be what you're after. a lot of the iraqi electorate likely hate israel, want a big army, believe the us has brought ruin on the country etc and will end up electing a government to reflect this.

would that justify saddam's ouster? at the end of the day, without wmd that's all it has come to (and i supported the invasion just for saddam's ouster, as he was a monster, but you have to ask whether it was worth it).

meanwhile, threatening iran is well and good. (it's a scary prospect their having nuclear weapons and putin assisting in their construction is a mockery of his foreign policy and again shows he's happier allowing state officials to line their pockets than taking hard decisions to protect russia's national interests). but in rattling the sabre bush risks rallying a population that from my understanding is disillusioned with the mullahs, around them, by providing a serious external threat.

then you have saudia arabia whose political system makes putin's look transparent and accountable and bush makes no threats (yes, there were words, but they were lame).

it all sort of means well, but it not particularly consistent and coherent and how it is going to improve us security is questionable. Firstly, I was just being polite...Wasted I guess.

Secondly, what on earth is "noble" about spreading a democracy on or to other countries who already have or had their own sytems of law, heirarchy, and cultures, in place...Long before we ever meddled in their internal affairs.

I just see that as the law of the mighty, and not (neccessarily) the law of the right. Look how (we the white man) destroyed whole Amazon and African tribes - converting them into good Christians....Have lesson never been learnt?

Again the sabre rattling's out with Iran, and there's a real threat-cum-warning there too, from Bush.

On the other hand, we have North Korea, which makes no pretence of the fact that they're armed to the teeth with WMD, and a million, combat ready, fighting men, but here we have the Bush admin using a softly, softly, approach. Indeed, Cony Rice denied that there was'nt any difference in the US approach to this issue. Now, unless I'm completely daft...How can that be...???

Ned Kelly
20-02-2005, 15:53
Originally posted by Bluebird
I'm completely daft...

i always respect a man with strong self-analytical skills. ;)

Bluebird
20-02-2005, 15:58
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i always respect a man with strong self-analytical skills. ;) Thank you Ned....Your diplomacy skills (about as diplomatic as an A bomb), knows no bounds, I see....:)

yankee@moscow
20-02-2005, 16:21
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
i mean in the sense that i'm on russia's side in this. i want it to succeed.

I think everyone here in Moscow wants Russia to succeed, not just because we live here, but because they could add a lot to the rest of the world if they ever put it all together. Hopefully they will!

RIKO
20-02-2005, 19:44
Originally posted by Bluebird
Look how (we the white man) destroyed whole Amazon and African tribes.... Which African tribes ?

Kingwillhe
20-02-2005, 22:01
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
I think everyone here in Moscow wants Russia to succeed, not just because we live here, but because they could add a lot to the rest of the world if they ever put it all together. Hopefully they will! Russia must succeed! It holds too many cards not to.

I was going to compare it to...someone else. But there is no comparison really!

The changes which have happened since 19-21 Aug '91 are nothing compared to what's coming. Can't you feel it hoss? Those SUVís and designer bullshit whatever's aren't going to do the locals any good when we all bail and watch Putin and his crowd join the ranks of the seriously unemployed useless MF's of the world!!

How can anyone defend this almost cab driver!!...it's beyond me!! The same old tired crap...again and again!

Sparafucile
21-02-2005, 10:16
>> (and i supported the invasion just for saddam's ouster, as he was a monster, but you have to ask whether it was worth it).<<

All well and good... but there are lots of Saddams in this world. Our dear friend "Turkmenbashi"... the regime currently running Uzbekistan... our next-door-neighbours in Belarus... the Junta in Myanmar.... the leadership of the People's Repression of China...

... where are you going to stop, if you can justify a bloody invasion to change regimes "you don't happen to like"?

The WMD* thing has now been recognised as a shaming pack of lies. However, prior to the war, it was advanced as the PRIMARY reason for invading Iraq, along with allegations of involvement in sponsoring international terrorism and supporting al-Qaeda. A credulous public leapt to believe this utter tosh, and is now willing to forget that not a word of it was true.

* watch whilst the Bush-Babies shout this down - as they've been briefed to do by their paymasters....

This is simply a carbon-copy of the Afghan War, where the country was invaded on the pretext of hunting for Osama bin-Laden. Oddly, the CIA (no slouches in the field of international intelligence) had been looking for him for years... ever since the bombing of the US legations in Africa, attributed to OBL. Yet the CIA didn't think OBL was in Afghanistan? Until, that is, they were told he was by Bush & Rumsfeld... like, they would know?? Of course, given the close personal links between the Bush and bin-Laden families (OBL's own brother was a major investor in Bush family oil businesses that went badly wrong) perhaps Bush really DID know? Whatever the case.... not a thing was found in Afghanistan (except, err, the prisoners currently sitting illegally in Gitmo, on whom not a thing can be pinned). So it was then rebranded as a "regime change" exercise. Again oddly, the USA had been aware of the Taliban as a vicious bunch of thugs for a decade before, but hadn't done a thing about it? No mention of Afghanistan in any of Bush's pre-election campaign materials or manifestos, not a single word about his intentions to overthrow the regime, or even a single condemnation of it. Full diplomatic relations maintained etc....

So when Bush crawls into Europe this week on his knees begging for Aid, bear in mind what you'd be "aiding"...

Now that his search for OBL has ended in failure and humiliation, Bush is now set on re-casting Russia as his latest bogey-man. Interestingly "Soviet expert" Condi Rice didn't bother to show up in Russia on HER trip (having been shown what the back of a door looks like on her last visit), and Bush isn't going to come to Moscow either. Instead, he is set to attack Russia from the safety of Bratislava (in, ehem, Slovakia), where any kind of anti-Russian rhetoric is sure of a warm welcome due to Cold War legacy. However - his credentials - as Commendant-in-Chief of America's own Gulag, as the leader of multiple invasions of sovereign countries - to chide Mr Putin over a "retreat from democracy" are looking a little tarnished.

Ned Kelly
21-02-2005, 17:41
bit of a conversation killer that one!

Crazyeelboy
21-02-2005, 19:41
All right, Sparafucile has finally weighed in! This time, its about US-Russia relations... Wait a minute, NO, its back to Bush Bash 2005... yawn.

rosieredwood
21-02-2005, 19:48
Originally posted by Pumkinshell
I understand for a political forum we can't expect an overaged male with eight cats know geography - but nevertheless, it's slovakia. It's so pleasing to teach Americans!

koba65
21-02-2005, 20:09
Originally posted by rosieredwood


It appears to be some sort of Commonwealth thing....

koba65
21-02-2005, 20:10
Originally posted by Crazyeelboy
All right, Sparafucile has finally weighed in! This time, its about US-Russia relations... Wait a minute, NO, its back to Bush Bash 2005... yawn.

Such a thin line between love and hate! ;) The ignore function works wonders.

koba65
21-02-2005, 20:23
Hmmm, now if Bush made this gaffe the media would be all over him:

"By DEB RIECHMANN Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON Feb 19, 2005 ó President Bush says speculation that the United States might attack Iraq to end its nuclear program is "just not the truth," although he refuses to rule out the possibility entirely. "


They were only off by one letter. No biggie.

koba65
21-02-2005, 20:24
"Bush also said he would join Putin in Moscow on May 9 when Russia marks the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe. "

Bluebird
21-02-2005, 20:50
Originally posted by Sparafucile
>> (and i supported the invasion just for saddam's ouster, as he was a monster, but you have to ask whether it was worth it).<<

All well and good... but there are lots of Saddams in this world. Our dear friend "Turkmenbashi"... the regime currently running Uzbekistan... our next-door-neighbours in Belarus... the Junta in Myanmar.... the leadership of the People's Repression of China...

... where are you going to stop, if you can justify a bloody invasion to change regimes "you don't happen to like"?

The WMD* thing has now been recognised as a shaming pack of lies. However, prior to the war, it was advanced as the PRIMARY reason for invading Iraq, along with allegations of involvement in sponsoring international terrorism and supporting al-Qaeda. A credulous public leapt to believe this utter tosh, and is now willing to forget that not a word of it was true.

* watch whilst the Bush-Babies shout this down - as they've been briefed to do by their paymasters....

This is simply a carbon-copy of the Afghan War, where the country was invaded on the pretext of hunting for Osama bin-Laden. Oddly, the CIA (no slouches in the field of international intelligence) had been looking for him for years... ever since the bombing of the US legations in Africa, attributed to OBL. Yet the CIA didn't think OBL was in Afghanistan? Until, that is, they were told he was by Bush & Rumsfeld... like, they would know?? Of course, given the close personal links between the Bush and bin-Laden families (OBL's own brother was a major investor in Bush family oil businesses that went badly wrong) perhaps Bush really DID know? Whatever the case.... not a thing was found in Afghanistan (except, err, the prisoners currently sitting illegally in Gitmo, on whom not a thing can be pinned). So it was then rebranded as a "regime change" exercise. Again oddly, the USA had been aware of the Taliban as a vicious bunch of thugs for a decade before, but hadn't done a thing about it? No mention of Afghanistan in any of Bush's pre-election campaign materials or manifestos, not a single word about his intentions to overthrow the regime, or even a single condemnation of it. Full diplomatic relations maintained etc....
So when Bush crawls into Europe this week on his knees begging for Aid, bear in mind what you'd be "aiding"...

Errr, I'm not sure that Bush will, in any way be "begging for AID." Infact, it seems (if you'd looked at my last posting), that it's quite possibly the othere way around...Read this excerpt, which I gleaned from Sunday's FT, and posted yesterday...

Sure Bush & Co need to go on a shmooze and charm offensive...But, the Eusopeans need access to the American markets, having been largely boycotted, by the American consumer, and they want the Americans to spend money in their countries too.

So, who's schmoozing who here...??? This is the (below) extract, from The Financial Times.

Europeans are so eager to impress the president during his two-day visit to Brussels - they are even closing down most of the EU administration to ensure his security - it is all getting a bit embarrassing.

"If ridicule could kill, there would be bodies piling up in the streets of Brussels," said Jean-Claude Juncker, the prime minister of Luxembourg, whose tiny country holds the EU's presidency.

Mr Juncker was despairing of the petty squabbling which has broken out in the 25 member club - and among its institutions - as everyone tries to get face time with a president some of them still privately loathe.

It is a sign of the efforts being made on both sides that Mr Bush will devote most of his time to meetings with the same "weasels" who most opposed his war effort.

While Tony Blair, British prime minister, only gets to see the president for croissants on Tuesday, Jacques Chirac, French president, is treated to dinner on Monday night.

Zephyr
24-02-2005, 21:12
Um have you looked at the Euro dollar relationship lately ? The Euro is sitting on the dollar like a coon sitting on a hound in the middle of the stream.The moment Asian countries ( Japan, China ) decide to unhook themselves from the dollar and begin dumping the only thing Americans will be buying is mac and cheese.

Bluebird
24-02-2005, 21:32
Originally posted by Zephyr
Um have you looked at the Euro dollar relationship lately ? The Euro is sitting on the dollar like a coon sitting on a hound in the middle of the stream.The moment Asian countries ( Japan, China ) decide to unhook themselves from the dollar and begin dumping the only thing Americans will be buying is mac and cheese. Hmmm, I'd check out Ghost's thread in ex-pat cafe, entitled, "The Dollar," on this very (re: your comment(s)) topic...Quite lively, to say the least....:)

koba65
25-02-2005, 01:47
Originally posted by Zephyr
....like a coon sitting on a hound in the middle of the stream.

Is that you, Dan Rather??

Zephyr
25-02-2005, 08:38
Originally posted by koba65
Is that you, Dan Rather??
Fancy meeting you here Donald!