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View Full Version : Detainee Says He Was Tortured While in U.S. Custody



Bluebird
13-02-2005, 14:28
Well, this is something that I'm sure is going to rumble on and on for many more years to come. I am sure that this type of sad and very harrowing story, is just one of hundreds waiting, in the pipline to come up for public knowledge and debate...And, ultimately, grounds for many massive law suits, again'st the US. This is something that is not just going to go away quietly, and/or be swept (conveniently) under a political carpet.

Here we have an American adminstration, that's now going on a smooth and charm offensive, and schmutzing up to "Old Europe," with a "New" Donald Rumsfield. Who, interstingly enough, I feel has a slight resemblance to Herr. Himmler...Especially with those glasses of his. And, we all know what Herr. Himmler got up to, with his torture and various other revolting practices, in the WW2 European concentration camps.

This is a harrowing story of a (released) detainee, from the American interrogation system - as posted and reported by the New York Times. The full report's on: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/international/middleeast/13habib.html?ex=1266037200&en=77d4f049c764d170&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo

SYDNEY, Australia, Feb. 12 - Mamdouh Habib still has a bruise on his lower back. He says it is a sign of the beatings he endured in a prison in Egypt. Interrogators there put out cigarettes on his chest, he says, and he lifts his shirt to show the marks. He says he got the dark spot on his forehead when Americans hit his head against the floor at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

After being arrested in Pakistan in the weeks after Sept. 11, 2001, he was held as a terror suspect by the Americans for 40 months. Back home now, Mr. Habib alleges that at every step of his detention - from Pakistan, to Egypt, to Afghanistan, to Guantánamo - he endured physical and psychological abuse.

The physical abuse, he said, ranged from a kick "that nearly killed me" to electric shocks administered through a wired helmet that he said interrogators told him could detect whether he was lying.

Speaking publicly for the first time since he was freed two weeks ago, Mr. Habib, a 49-year-old Australian citizen born in Egypt, also described psychological abuse that seemed intended to undermine his identity - as a husband, a father and a Muslim man. At Guantánamo, he said, he was sexually humiliated by a female interrogator who reached under her skirt and threw what appeared to be blood in his face. He also said he was forced to look at photographs of his wife's face superimposed on images of naked women next to Osama bin Laden.

PS. Talking about this subject...This too, I found on Yahoo. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050213/80/fccvy.html

Australian soldiers naked in interrogation training

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Australian soldiers are stripped naked, hooded, deprived of sleep and threatened with physical and sexual abuse, methods banned under the Geneva Convention, to train them to resist interrogation if captured by hostile forces.


Defence Minister Robert Hill told parliament in a written statement that Australia had been conducting the training for the past five years.


Hill said no soldier was actually abused and that soldiers who would be conducting interrogations of prisoners were not permitted to undergo the training.


Interrogation methods not permitted under the Geneva Convention were used to "lower morale and weaken the will to resist", Hill said in the statement.

Crazyeelboy
13-02-2005, 15:20
Bluebird:

Posting information about prisoner treatment is useful, but your comparisons of Secretary Rumsfeld to Himmler are not.

That you would even try to compare the two shows that you have really no understanding of what Himmler and the Nazis were really about. and what they did.

My guess is that in addition to being a weak student of modern history, your real agenda is to grind an axe against the US. Either way, your comparision is grossly misplaced.

Random
13-02-2005, 15:30
No doubt that Mr Bluebird would be happy for all those surviors of 9/11 to sue the Saudis and the Bin Laden's in particular ...after all they are a rich family and a rich country & Mr B was from there and is a Saudi national ....

Asking nicely for information from commited radicals gets you no where ...whether they be Arabs, Jews, Christians or men from Beetlejuice ....

trebor
13-02-2005, 15:34
Originally posted by Bluebird
[B]............Mr. Habib, a 49-year-old Australian citizen born in Egypt...............B]

Mr Habib is an Australian citizen because the people of Australia were kind enough to allow him to emigrate there and start a better life for him and his family. A standard of life he could never have aspired to in Egypt.
Strange, how now, he has been caught conspiring with Al Quaida in Afghanistan(who bank rolled and master minded the Bali bombing that killed 200(?) Australians!) an organisation dedicated to undermining the very freedoms that allowed Australians to build a wonderful country that attracted him there in the first place!
In extreme cases such as his, citizenship should be withdrawn and he should be re-patriated to Egypt. Back to the sh*t hole he crawled out from.
If i was Australian i would abuse him.................................with a peice of 4 x 2 with a nail in the end!

jay close
13-02-2005, 15:41
It has been going on for long time.
You don’t get info from someone who does not want to give it.
If you really want that info you will do anything to get it for your boss, for your country, for your self.
Almost all countries do it.
It is mostly swept under the rug.
USA is the biggest preacher of what other countries should do
USA Gave Democracy to Iraq for there Oil.
Maybe it would not be bad if they gave Democracy to other countries that have no oil. Just personal satisfaction

Crazyeelboy
13-02-2005, 15:49
Jay - we've heard this "war for oil" crap for so long and its getting old. Do the math, for the amount of money the US has spent in the Iraq campaign and what it will continue to spend, the US government could have bought enough oil to cover this. The issue is more about stability in the region, not about oil. By the way - how much oil did they find in Afghanistan? When my brother was there, he didn't see any.

jay close
13-02-2005, 16:52
Originally posted by Crazyeelboy
Jay - we've heard this "war for oil" crap for so long and its getting old. Do the math, for the amount of money the US has spent in the Iraq campaign and what it will continue to spend, the US government could have bought enough oil to cover this. The issue is more about stability in the region, not about oil. By the way - how much oil did they find in Afghanistan? When my brother was there, he didn't see any.
As i remember we were looking for bin Laden in Afganistan
How many other countries dont have democracy
Who is next?
I thought most people were againt the war in Iraq.
What kind of democracy was that.
I know most Australian's were agaist it, but Australia still sent troops.
Where is our Democracy?
Not here, it not there.
News buddy we are not free this is just Propaganda
In US Schools we teach Patriot Stuff at very early age
You people have traveled the world do you still beleive that
Or now you see some people are less free than others
Excuse "our system is not perfect but it works"

Crazyeelboy
13-02-2005, 17:33
Originally posted by jay close
As i remember we were looking for bin Laden in Afganistan
How many other countries dont have democracy
Who is next?
I thought most people were againt the war in Iraq.
What kind of democracy was that.
I know most Australian's were agaist it, but Australia still sent troops.
Where is our Democracy?
Not here, it not there.
News buddy we are not free this is just Propaganda
In US Schools we teach Patriot Stuff at very early age
You people have traveled the world do you still beleive that
Or now you see some people are less free than others
Excuse "our system is not perfect but it works"

Jay-

Let's go one at a time.

1) Afghanistan - you asked whether the US was willing to spread democracy to countries without oil - and Afghanistan is one example.

2) How many countried don't have democracy? Who is Next? - the trend in the world has been toward democracy - look at how things have changed in so many places, but there are many countries that are undemocratic and the US is encouraging democratic development around the world, which is what it shoud be.

3) People against the war in Iraq - I assume that your point is that you believe most people in the US and Australia are against the war in Iraq and that the governments have defied the will of the people by sending troops to Iraq.

In both Australia and the US, major elections were held with Iraq as one of the main issues and both cases, the governments were re-elected. Nothing undemocratic about that.

4) News that we are not free - I'm not sure what to make of your comment. Are you not free to have information and speak your mind? Is dissent not allowed in the US? Was it not possible for the opposition to voice any and all opinions up to, during and after the elections? If we are so propogandized, how could this work? If we were not free, how could this happen?

5) The last part - I don't really understand your point at the end. What were you getting to?

Bluebird
13-02-2005, 20:36
Originally posted by Crazyeelboy
Bluebird:

Posting information about prisoner treatment is useful, but your comparisons of Secretary Rumsfeld to Himmler are not.

That you would even try to compare the two shows that you have really no understanding of what Himmler and the Nazis were really about. and what they did.

My guess is that in addition to being a weak student of modern history, your real agenda is to grind an axe against the US. Either way, your comparision is grossly misplaced. Thank you for your compliment and observation, regarding my comment about Rumsfield. Firstly, I was making a comparison on physical similarities. But, then it occoured to me that they both had another thing in common - running prison camps, using torture tactics...

Now how is that analagy be so wrong, when the press - by the way your (US) press offices; are going into warp factor nine, over this issue?

And, by the way, as members of my family fought and died fighting the the Nazi regime - I have a very real idea of what the Nazis were about.

I do not have an axe to grind agains't the US, at all. But, I do have an opinon to voice, over the incumbent Bush administration and the tactics currently employed - in the name of "intelligence gathering and counter-terrorism"

A tactic that's well outside the fundamental, and international (UN) law on the detention of people imprisoned, during a war operation.

A tactic that is wholly cruel, wrong, and outdated, and belongs to the realms of history - not to the modern day. And, a tactic that flies in the face of human dignity.

And, this is the same administration, which preaches and bemoans about the violation of human rights in other countries too. The rhetoric here is nothing but appalling and shameful.

And, by the way, not even Russia uses the death penalty any more, for ordinary (civilian) detainees.

It's a fact that when Bush Jnr was the Governor of Texas, more detainees met their maker, via lethal injection, than any other state in America...With his familiar parting words, "God be with you."

How many people, have been put to death, in the US penal (Death Row) stystem....Just because they had little financial recourse to good lawyers, and/or a complete miscarriage of justice, in general....One could only ever hazard a guess at?

OJ. Simpson's a classic case. He had money to throw at his defence, and make a complete mockery of the prosecutions' case. But, supposing he had no money...???

And, as I am entitled (as anyone else is here), to the freedom of speech and self-expression...Like it or not, that is my opinion...And, that is not to say that my opinion is in any way correct - according to the views of you or others' too.

Bluebird
13-02-2005, 20:47
Originally posted by jay close
It has been going on for long time.
You don’t get info from someone who does not want to give it.
If you really want that info you will do anything to get it for your boss, for your country, for your self.
Almost all countries do it.
It is mostly swept under the rug.
USA is the biggest preacher of what other countries should do
USA Gave Democracy to Iraq for there Oil.
Maybe it would not be bad if they gave Democracy to other countries that have no oil. Just personal satisfaction Sounds good...What about a change of regime there too...Mugabe's a brutal dictator...Oh, no, don't tell me...No oil wells there...:)

J.D.
13-02-2005, 23:22
Bluebird, comparing Rumsfield to Himmler on their physical characteristics seriously detracts from from any credible argument may have had.

jay close
14-02-2005, 01:13
It is true I see physical resemblance.
but cant spell so my opinion is more crappy than your's
Mr Bluebird your ok
I Like your Opinion

jay close
14-02-2005, 01:19
Where is bin laden?
It must be a city in USA free zone Afganistan
One of mister bushies friends
Free Speech!
Did the movie "9-11" have problums getting released?????

Leslie Presley
14-02-2005, 01:56
Richard 'Dick' Cheney : " Call me a patriot, but it really chaps my a$$ that a yellow-bellied, American hating traitor like you can't support America on a war we all need so that Halliburton can meet its profits objectives. Some b*******s just aren't team players"

jay close
14-02-2005, 18:00
What country should we help next?
Because I go the other Direction.
How about some Ideas folks??
You are a patriot if If you believe everthing you see on TV
And you are traitor if you disagree with This war or Vietam

Crazyeelboy
14-02-2005, 19:01
Jay:

What's your point? Or do you just want to rant? Ranting is OK, but it does not lead to much useful discussion.

Bluebird
15-02-2005, 00:18
Originally posted by Crazyeelboy
Jay:

What's your point? Or do you just want to rant? Ranting is OK, but it does not lead to much useful discussion. Agreed...:)