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WWu777
09-02-2005, 14:58
Real life examples of Russian rudeness and madness

For those of you who are still doubtful about my claims about Russian rudeness, wondering if I’m the source of the problem, here are some real life examples that have occurred back in Moscow that I forgot to mention before.

One time, in the Time Online internet café under the Red Square, as I was going to the bathroom, a janitor lady mopping the floor told me to go to the women’s restroom as the men’s one was closed for cleaning now. At first, I couldn’t understand, but when I did, I went to the restroom doors to try to see which one was the women’s. As I stood there for 2 or 3 seconds trying to see the marking on the door, suddenly the janitor lady blew up at me and yelled in a fiery voice in Russian “I told you to go to the women’s restroom you stupid! Get out of here! The restrooms are closed for you!” Taken aback, I quickly went into the women’s restroom while I still could, trying to feel pity for the lady rather than anger, since she obviously must be a very unhappy person to do that. But sheesh, come on, how would it make you feel to be in a place where you don’t even have the freedom to stand for 2 or 3 seconds to look at the sign on the door?! That is beyond rudeness. It’s petty insanity of the most dysfunctional kind. Can you imagine how annoying it is to put up with sh** like that on a regular basis?

Another time, near metro Chistie Prudy, I went into a casino cash exchange booth, and told the teller that I wanted to change a 50 dollar bill into two 20’s and a 10, but not into roubles. She told me to put the cash into the window pocket, but I wanted to make sure she understood so I asked her in Russian if she understood. When I did, she blew up at me and yelled in an angry voice “Just put the cash in, you stupid!” I was stunned and couldn’t believe that she would blow up like that over my simple clarification to her! What kind of madness is that? No one can blame me or say that I am at fault for these kind of things, which would never happen in the Western World I’m from.

Finally, more recently here in Yoshkar-Ola, when my girlfriend Alina and I were in a café across from Virginia Agency, all of a sudden a building staff person in the middle of the place starting pounding nails with a hammer loudly to fix a table, completely oblivious to how disruptive the loud noise was to the café patrons. I was shocked and bewildered at how any civilized human being could be that inconsiderate and shameless, lacking any empathy for others, and not feeling any embarrassment for his rude disruptive action! Clearly without a doubt, many people here are the rudest in the world, sometimes being rude beyond imagination. There can be no denying that.

MR FACADE
09-02-2005, 15:02
You know my friend, some people are victims and some are not...... I never get called "stupid" my guess is that you have that look about you, you know what I mean the bloody STUPID look!!!

WWu777
09-02-2005, 15:07
Originally posted by MR FACADE
You know my friend, some people are victims and some are not...... I never get called "stupid" my guess is that you have that look about you, you know what I mean the bloody STUPID look!!!

W: That's what I mean. So you think that is just or fair? Just because I have a certain looks brings consequences to me that are out of my control?

I don't have a stupid look. Many say I look intellectual, like an artist or writer or journalist. My best friend says I have a kind look that makes people think I'm an easy target for them.

Anyway, thanks for your kindness and optimism........

MR FACADE
09-02-2005, 15:08
Originally posted by WWu777
W: That's what I mean. So you think that is just or fair? Just because I have a certain looks brings consequences to me that are out of my control?

I don't have a stupid look. Many say I look intellectual, like an artist or writer or journalist. My best friend says I have a kind look that makes people think I'm an easy target for them.

Anyway, thanks for your kindness and optimism........

My pleasure!! by the way, does your best friend look stupid as well?

koba65
09-02-2005, 15:13
Wu, have you noticed they treat everybody that way? It's a big city - New York is the same way.

Boris-Kachakokof
09-02-2005, 15:14
Take a look at this guy Facade!

No wonder they called him an idiot.
Look man, you gotta losen up, just take it easy and don't let things get to you that much, your in Moscow after all.

Get rid of your web-site too, people on here are gonna take the pi** out of you because of it.

PS: so you finaly got a gf, WAY TO GO!!!

Admin, image removed - Out of order Boris, members still have the right to anonymity on these forums, if he wishes to post it that's a different story

MR FACADE
09-02-2005, 15:20
Er, "THEY" don't call "HIM" an Idiot NOB ROT!

And whats all this "Man" business................what are you, some sort of throw back from the 60's!!!

Anyway how did you get my escort service photo?

RDV
09-02-2005, 15:34
The real challenge would to get this dude to answer any of the follow-up posts.

RDV
09-02-2005, 15:39
WWu777,

There is something very wrong with you... You're not having fun in this place, so why ARE you staying here?

Isn't it easier to move elsewhere where they treat you better?
(Send me a visa invitation when you relocate to such a place. I'll come to visit. The place.)

marsha
09-02-2005, 16:46
Everybody tell you that you are stupid. Maybe, you don't understand well Russian. What word do they use in Russian?

trebor
09-02-2005, 17:22
Originally posted by koba65
Wu, have you noticed they treat everybody that way? It's a big city - New York is the same way.

CORRECT!
and another great city!
Realy edgy, people in yer face. You can either handle it or you can't.

sfjohns67
09-02-2005, 19:24
Yawn. Verily are we offered yet another post by our glorious icon of the "Not Quite Right" segment of society, who once again arises like a phoenix from the ashes of poor taste to offer the better and more socially elevated among us the perfect target we desperately need to justify our own meager little existences. So fire away, thee scions of mediocrity, for thy god has arisen to give you the succor you are convinced you so richly deserve.

Filimon
09-02-2005, 22:01
Amen!

Ghost
10-02-2005, 07:51
Originally posted by WWu777
My best friend says I have a kind look that makes people think I'm an easy target for them.

The rest of the world calls that look "stupid and naive". Your best friend is being nice.

ChrisC30
10-02-2005, 08:16
Winston, I think you need to switch to decaf. ;)

Judging from every statement I've seen you make thus far, you are a disagreeable person, who easily lets everyday happenings get to him. Maybe you should calm down, close your eyes, count to 10, hum real loud, whatever it is that helps you cope with that chronic insecurity. ;)

kniga
10-02-2005, 08:23
WWu777,

It must be tough to be a kid in the adult world.

Ghost
10-02-2005, 09:08
Originally posted by ChrisC30
whatever it is that helps you cope with that chronic insecurity. ;)

Why do you think he comes here?

yankee@moscow
10-02-2005, 09:23
I used to let crap like that bother me. I've realized that people here will treat you as bad as you let them. They may get the first rude burst into you, but after that the ball is in your court. The Russian culture is different than western cultures. A no reponse to a rude action is the same as saying, "Just walk all over me. I'm a wimp." That's just the way it is, like it or not. I have a friend on this board that gave me this advice, which I hated when I first heard it, "Just yell louder than they do. They will think that you are someone important and leave you alone or even apologize." You know what? As twisted as that is, he was right! People who have no respect for you or themselves don't expect anything less but disrespect from you. It's best to give it to them........disrespect that is! I hate it too, but what can you do? I'm really not like that, but it's better than having the cleaning lady yell at me.

Helix
10-02-2005, 09:28
WWu777 , really you’ve got a problem, a big one. You seem to be accident-prone :agree:
Is there any piece of crap you kept clear of :confused: ;)

P.I.M.P.
10-02-2005, 09:36
Hi Winston,

Just a few pointers to make Moscow life seem less rude to you:

In the metro:

1. When in the metro on the escalator, stand only on the left side. This is your given right and don’t budge no matter how rude those pesky Russians seem.

2. When getting in the metro car, stand directly in front of the door when opening. This will allow you to stream right in without the shoving and pushing that Russians usually like to do to each other.

3. The lady sitting in the booth at the bottom of the escalator is one of the most informative people in Moscow about getting directions. Ask her for a “spravka” (info) about directions. She gets paid to do this stuff.

4. When buying something from a vendor in the metro, whether it be a magazine or flowers, be sure to give her the largest bill you have (preferably 500 or 1000) even if the item costs only a few rubles. She will thank you profusely as she hates being bogged down with all that extra change and bills. You will be doing a nice favor to a generally rude person. You will be the better man for it.

koba65
10-02-2005, 10:19
Originally posted by kniga
WWu777,

It must be tough to be a kid in the adult world.

It's tougher to be an adult in a kid's world - ask Michael Jackson. ;)

Sparafucile
10-02-2005, 17:24
>> 4. When buying something from a vendor in the metro, whether it be a magazine or flowers, be sure to give her the largest bill you have (preferably 500 or 1000) even if the item costs only a few rubles <<

And ensure you get a cash-register receipt - this is your Right in law.

Adidje
12-02-2005, 02:29
And do not bother to bring much cash around - they gotta have this little credit card mashines with them...

Bluebird
12-02-2005, 22:26
Originally posted by koba65
It's tougher to be an adult in a kid's world - ask Michael Jackson. ;) WWu777, I find it amazing that somone's actually posted something like this at all. You live in a big city, which as like any other city around the world, is no more than a rather large toilet.

Living in that type of world, with just a few million people with you, for company...Then the law of the jungle (in this case the concrete jungle) holds true.

Moreover, people have enough stress and daily problems...Then along comes another person, with a seemingly "inept" sense of being, just to add to their problems.

There's a classic (Soviet) film entitled, "Moscow Doesn't Believe in Tears," based on this topic. Young girl moves into town, from a village. You know the rest...Indeed it's true. - Moscow does not believe in tears...But, nor does life in any other city - including London.

The advice that others have given you, is sound advice - especially at rush hour times, on the Metro. I'm not even sorry anymore, if a person who doesn't get out my way quickly enough, when those doors open, goes down. And, that includes members of both sexes too. After all, would they feel the same for me...??? You bet they wouldn't.

That, by the way, is not my character too, but to survive, one has to adapt to different, and (often) "unwritten" rules. That's the way of the jungle - the way of life, in the city.

Steve Wonders' lyrics, from his song, "Living in the City," about a young black man, from the wrong side of the tracks - living in NY, also accurately describes this paradox too.

I don't even stop, when I see unattended, frozen, bodies, lying on the floor anymore. I did that once - found a policeman, and I was politely told to go forth and multiply...He was busy...

Probably, in his position, and insultingly, lousy, salary; I'd have said the same too...Who needs the extra work, hassle, and resulting paperwork - on that salary...???

At the end of the day, one cannot afford to be Mr. Nice guy - it's tough out there on the streets. But, if you can't stand the heat in the kitchen...Get out of it. You've either got to shape up to that fact....Or ship out!!!

quincy
13-02-2005, 13:59
Originally posted by sfjohns67
Yawn. Verily are we offered yet another post by our glorious icon of the "Not Quite Right" segment of society, who once again arises like a phoenix from the ashes of poor taste to offer the better and more socially elevated among us the perfect target we desperately need to justify our own meager little existences. So fire away, thee scions of mediocrity, for thy god has arisen to give you the succor you are convinced you so richly deserve.

LOL...good post!!!

Namibia
13-02-2005, 14:51
Jipeeeeeh WWu777 is back!

....If we send him to the Sahara, he would probably also find something to complain and bitch about!.....

Get a Life!

:agree: :agree: :agree:

Bluebird
13-02-2005, 14:57
Originally posted by Namibia
Jipeeeeeh WWu777 is back!

....If we send him to the Sahara, he would probably also find something to complain and bitch about!.....

Get a Life!

:agree: :agree: :agree: Nah, he might get lost, just like Maggie Thatcher's son did, during his stint in the Paris-Dakkar rally, some years ago. Then we'd have to come a'lookin' for him and rescue him. On the other hand though....Maybe, not such a bad idea....:) :cool:

mediashark
14-02-2005, 22:26
Friends, what you have just read from WWu777 are Real life examples of Winston Wu's rudeness and madness!

To W:
:getlost:

AleksLA
09-01-2010, 22:52
Greetings! I've lived in Moscow about 17 years of my life (i am 22) and am very pleased to see how tough and uptheass politically correct our visitors are. I am happy to see that many of you, so self-consciously pretend to be blind to the obvious, though seemingly insignificant, traits of utter impolite and belligerent behavior. It's really great to see you guys really assimilate in a culture you love so much. It's like a wonderful parade of tight-ass foreigners reformed into a flaunting, self-righteous mob of Russians. Perhaps the women are well worth it huh? Perhaps, you could just as likely assimilate into a wild Amazon tribe? Thank you for stirring my country to progress and civility.

is4fun
09-01-2010, 23:45
Hi Winston,

Just a few pointers to make Moscow life seem less rude to you:

In the metro:

1. When in the metro on the escalator, stand only on the left side. This is your given right and don’t budge no matter how rude those pesky Russians seem.

2. When getting in the metro car, stand directly in front of the door when opening. This will allow you to stream right in without the shoving and pushing that Russians usually like to do to each other.

3. The lady sitting in the booth at the bottom of the escalator is one of the most informative people in Moscow about getting directions. Ask her for a “spravka” (info) about directions. She gets paid to do this stuff.

4. When buying something from a vendor in the metro, whether it be a magazine or flowers, be sure to give her the largest bill you have (preferably 500 or 1000) even if the item costs only a few rubles. She will thank you profusely as she hates being bogged down with all that extra change and bills. You will be doing a nice favor to a generally rude person. You will be the better man for it.

Perhaps another pointer:

If at the cashier when paying for your groceries or whatnot and they ask you for a few rubles to even out the tally just say "I'm sorry I need that change for my cab fare."

You'll fit right in! :)

Good luck!

is4fun
09-01-2010, 23:47
Just had a gander on the dates of the posts. Most of these people must be dead. Sorry.

AndreyS
10-01-2010, 00:29
Just had a gander on the dates of the posts. Most of these people must be dead. Sorry.

They are dead, and we are alive, friend Is4fun! Hurray!

drwho
10-01-2010, 10:09
Real life examples of Russian rudeness and madness

For those of you who are still doubtful about my claims about Russian rudeness, wondering if I’m the source of the problem, here are some real life examples that have occurred back in Moscow that I forgot to mention before.

One time, in the Time Online internet café under the Red Square, as I was going to the bathroom, a janitor lady mopping the floor told me to go to the women’s restroom as the men’s one was closed for cleaning now. At first, I couldn’t understand, but when I did, I went to the restroom doors to try to see which one was the women’s. As I stood there for 2 or 3 seconds trying to see the marking on the door, suddenly the janitor lady blew up at me and yelled in a fiery voice in Russian “I told you to go to the women’s restroom you stupid! Get out of here! The restrooms are closed for you!” Taken aback, I quickly went into the women’s restroom while I still could, trying to feel pity for the lady rather than anger, since she obviously must be a very unhappy person to do that. But sheesh, come on, how would it make you feel to be in a place where you don’t even have the freedom to stand for 2 or 3 seconds to look at the sign on the door?! That is beyond rudeness. It’s petty insanity of the most dysfunctional kind. Can you imagine how annoying it is to put up with sh** like that on a regular basis?

Another time, near metro Chistie Prudy, I went into a casino cash exchange booth, and told the teller that I wanted to change a 50 dollar bill into two 20’s and a 10, but not into roubles. She told me to put the cash into the window pocket, but I wanted to make sure she understood so I asked her in Russian if she understood. When I did, she blew up at me and yelled in an angry voice “Just put the cash in, you stupid!” I was stunned and couldn’t believe that she would blow up like that over my simple clarification to her! What kind of madness is that? No one can blame me or say that I am at fault for these kind of things, which would never happen in the Western World I’m from.

Finally, more recently here in Yoshkar-Ola, when my girlfriend Alina and I were in a café across from Virginia Agency, all of a sudden a building staff person in the middle of the place starting pounding nails with a hammer loudly to fix a table, completely oblivious to how disruptive the loud noise was to the café patrons. I was shocked and bewildered at how any civilized human being could be that inconsiderate and shameless, lacking any empathy for others, and not feeling any embarrassment for his rude disruptive action! Clearly without a doubt, many people here are the rudest in the world, sometimes being rude beyond imagination. There can be no denying that.


I feel sorry for you. Remember many Russian people use this forum.

Russians are by nature direct and say what they think and can be very rude. This is wrong (but can also be refreshing) but people can be rude everywhere. In the UK, in shops, people can be very rude. English people working within the service industries can be highly rude not so much verbally but they don't even look at you or smile. That's the world we live in. You must be tougher or you will get upset.

TGP
10-01-2010, 20:41
......... and sometimes people may be rude even on this forum.

denissoff
16-01-2010, 00:41
WWu777, Two adwises to you...

1). Hope you didn't get to Russland violently... So if you don't like russian rudeness you are alsways albe to leave this country.

2). Strive to visit Theaters not casinos or night clubls

denissoff
16-01-2010, 00:44
Er, "THEY" don't call "HIM" an Idiot NOB ROT!

And whats all this "Man" business................what are you, some sort of throw back from the 60's!!!

Anyway how did you get my escort service photo?

I love sixties))):piano:

RudyTwoShoes
16-01-2010, 02:49
Stop being so xenophobic.
It's a megolopolis thing.

Once in NYC (which certainly qualifies as the "western world...(you're) from"), when I asked someone for directions, they told me to "buy a f*cking map" before the sentence was even out of my mouth.

And two weeks ago in London (also "Western", no doubt) I watched a well-dressed businesswoman shout in a crowded train (packed with kids) at man for being a "f*cking moron." Because he told her that there was no room.

You need to chill out or move, my friend. Because it's not Russia.

AndreyS
16-01-2010, 03:03
......... and sometimes people may be rude even on this forum.

... whatever Westerners they are. LOL

aibyouka
16-01-2010, 19:35
is it still a problem? i feel more welcome here than in Greece or Germany

AndreyS
16-01-2010, 19:40
is it still a problem? i feel more welcome here than in Greece or Germany

But, aren't you Russian?

AleksLA
16-01-2010, 20:49
New York is not nearly as rude as Moscow and if you want to justify rudeness on "megolopolis" basis then, why don't you consider Mumbai or Rio de Janeiro as well... Nothing, minus sociopathy, can justify why, when i ask directions on a bus, the ticket guy says "what are you stupid?" Or when the drivers ram into you for walking on a sidewalk. How about when your "roommates" eat all your food in front of you or tell you your country "came under the yoke of a nigger." Consider also, the fact that people outside of the metropolis are even more feral. It's a f%cking jungle of confused people with little sense of national identity and self-respect. Pretending that this is a global phenomenon is about as ignorant and moronic as trying to justify why they stone people in Iran. My English classmate asked me once, "why do Russians shit where they live?" I could explain why, but i am more stunned with you yokels not even recognizing the problem. Well congrats! you f*cking got it. Total immersion they say...

Bogatyr
17-01-2010, 01:34
I guess Saint Petersburg is different from Moscow (assuming the people writing such things about Moscow are correct, which I don't necessarily believe but haven't been there so can't judge). The more people I meet and deal with on a daily basis "out there" in the world, the more I'm impressed with the general level of politeness and helpfulness between strangers in public. The responses to requests for directions on the street here range from a simple "I don't know" (less often) to extensive help in finding places (most often). Everywhere I hear "спасибо, до свидaния" in cafes & shops. For a relative Megalopolis, I guess SPB rates pretty polite.

AleksLA
17-01-2010, 01:54
Also, i want to go on for a second regarding the lines, to which we Russians should be very well used to, but somehow forgot the mechanics of how those work. Aside from the obvious bullshit like pushing and shoving into the bus like it's last one you'll ever see, waiting for your turn in a line seems to be a challenging concept for many back in Moscow. I even remember seeing somewhat educated-looking women imposing their pencil-thin bodies into the front of the line as if their lives have infinitely more importance to get to the tanning salon. I will also say something about the bartenders whom, besides being discriminatory toward all of my American friends, have a jolly time giving you 300 rubles back on a piece of paper "because they don't have change." A more money-laundering pack of inconsiderate bastards there never was... I don't know where you would have to live before coming to Moscow, without finding it rude...Afghanistan?

Scrat335
17-01-2010, 10:54
I've had a few instances of rude behavior in Moscow over the years. By rude instances I mean outright rude. One was a gypsy cab driver. Me and my wife had strolled down the Arbat, and a cabbie asked us if we wanted a ride. I said no. He heard my accent and started speaking english. Trying to persuade us, my wife told him no. Right away he started American this American that as we walked away. I gave him the finger and kept walking. I'll not forget the policeman standing off to the side trying to figure out if he was going to have to break up a fight or not.

Another was in an office trying to get a permit for some imported parts that happened to me and my guide, some guy cut in line and my guide went off on him. The fool even put his finger in my face. I started calling him everything in the book and the ruckus brought the security guard who escorted him to the end of the line.

There have been others that were largely brought about by my ignorance like the incident in Belgorod and an amusing one in the Metro. As I walked through the turnstile there was a woman squeegeeing out the water on the floor, it was winter. I stopped and she squeegeed right over my shoes. I looked at her and I could tell she was thinking "what in the hell is wrong with you?" I glared and walked on. Later I noticed Muscovites never had these problems because they knew how to behave.

I like the one with the completely stressed out MVD officer in Kursk Voksal too.
Платформа два!! Платформа два!! Я не имею времени для этого!! He grabbed 2 of his underlings and told them to make sure I got on the right train.

Bogatyr
17-01-2010, 11:50
Also, i want to go on for a second regarding the lines, to which we Russians should be very well used to, but somehow forgot the mechanics of how those work. Aside from the obvious bullshit like pushing and shoving into the bus like it's last one you'll ever see, waiting for your turn in a line seems to be a challenging concept for many back in Moscow. I even remember seeing somewhat educated-looking women imposing their pencil-thin bodies into the front of the line as if their lives have infinitely more importance to get to the tanning salon. I will also say something about the bartenders whom, besides being discriminatory toward all of my American friends, have a jolly time giving you 300 rubles back on a piece of paper "because they don't have change." A more money-laundering pack of inconsiderate bastards there never was... I don't know where you would have to live before coming to Moscow, without finding it rude...Afghanistan?

My experience waiting in lines in SPB in offices is that people almost all the time arrive, ask "кто последний?" and things run smoothly. Once in a while there will be a disagreement about just what sort of behavior counts as losing one's place, but nothing really terribly uncivil.

You seem to have a really large chip on your shoulder about Russia. I find that in most cases one's own attitude is reflected back and effects your experience. Of course, if you only hang out in bars and tanning salons, the sort of people you experience will be of a particular type.

Willy
17-01-2010, 13:22
Maybe it's that stupid smile on most expats faces.


Try looking sour and they won't want to f**k up you day.

MissAnnElk
17-01-2010, 13:31
Maybe it's that stupid smile on most expats faces.


Try looking sour and they won't want to f**k up you day.

I think my stupid smile (and the fact I say "please" and "thank you") has endeared me at the grocery store. I think they are used to being treated rudely there (I have watched my fellow shoppers bark orders). That combined with my goofy grin pegs me as in need of protection, I think. At least I'm guessing this may be what they think. Those folks really look out for me.

I'm working on a blog entry about it now, but I had no end of kindness extended to me yesterday by total strangers.

I realize anyone can be on the receiving end of "big city rudeness," but I also think that approaching the situation with a modicum of respect and even a smattering of the local language will get you what you need.

AleksLA
17-01-2010, 22:11
You seem to have a really large chip on your shoulder about Russia. I find that in most cases one's own attitude is reflected back and effects your experience. Of course, if you only hang out in bars and tanning salons, the sort of people you experience will be of a particular type.

I absolutely do not have any chips on my shoulders. I am not predetermined to be critical of any of my fellow citizens for no reason. Perhaps, you confuse that with giving a shit about your own country. Also, i do not frequent tanning salons as i was obviously referring to the girls i was describing. I think i just got carried away there and added another phrase. I was just back at MGU and got yelled at on regular basis by the hallway ladies AND the librarians for not knowing where the hell to go and trying to find out information. This isn't limited to bars and clubs. The only time and setting people won't be rude to you, is when you throw money around in an inappropriate manner, or you're in some expensive establishment.

BTW i didn't mean to be critical of all expats, it's just i was appalled at the responses Wu got.

Fakename
18-01-2010, 00:24
I agree, the responces Wu got, are inappropriate, nobody should tolerate rudeness, people here in Russia are sometimes unbelievably rude.:5387:

Vadim
18-01-2010, 09:02
Really scaring thread. Full of terrifying stories about toilet cleaners and female librarians. I will definitely ask my mom to accompany me each time I enter Moscow State University Library or any other place of such a high risk. AlexLA, is your Rector aware what the hell is happening 'on a regular basis' in University hallways? :-)

WhiteLight
18-01-2010, 15:55
Pretending that this is a global phenomenon is about as ignorant and moronic as trying to justify why they stone people in Iran.

I think you're wrong. It is a global phenomenon (and it borders on stoning people). What would you say about No Country for Old Men (the movie)? (What would you say about the A-bomb? - To me, it's always been a materialistic metaphor of cruelty as it gradually takes more and more space in the heart of ordinary people's relationships.)
Many participants in the discussion seem rather happy going with the current.
Soon there will be lots of rhinoceros in the streets of Moscow, of various descents, some of them speaking several languages...

This topic is a tender spot with me. I remember one female expat writing facetiously in The Moscow Times on some warning signs that tell you that you have gone a bit too far with the current, or that you've stayed here in Moscow for a bit too much time. One's OWN rudeness and callousness are certainly things to watch. We are all blinded with trifles, after all. Such trifles as Golden Globe winners and the forthcoming Winter Olympics, FIFA World Cup, and and what have you. AND the proverbial speck in our brother's eye.

AleksLA wrote:
"Consider also, the fact that people outside of the metropolis are even more feral."
I disagree with you completely on this point. My experience has been to the contrary.

TGP
18-01-2010, 21:23
Maybe it's that stupid smile on most expats faces.


Try looking sour and they won't want to f**k up you day.


:D :D :D

AleksLA
18-01-2010, 22:37
Really scaring thread. Full of terrifying stories about toilet cleaners and female librarians. I will definitely ask my mom to accompany me each time I enter Moscow State University Library or any other place of such a high risk. AlexLA, is your Rector aware what the hell is happening 'on a regular basis' in University hallways? :-)

Diverting words... made me forget my argument entirely. What was i talking about? Oh! the fact, that people think/pretend it's not a big deal to be a rude uncivil person. I suppose a Russian "soul" was made for suffering and patience. So, next time some alcoholic conductor dude tells you to f#ck off, i am sure you will be ok since you were made for it. :) Cheers!

Vadim
18-01-2010, 22:50
Lad, please... Yes, suffering and patience, what's wrong with it? I normally pay my travelfare.

Swordfish90293
18-01-2010, 22:57
CORRECT!
and another great city!
Realy edgy, people in yer face. You can either handle it or you can't.

NYC is no doubt a challange. But unlike Moscow, New Yorkers demand contact, and will seldom ignore you. Demand hello and acknowledgement and give it. Can be rude on occasion, but not stand off.

So don't take it personally, both species may be different from you...

AleksLA
19-01-2010, 00:27
Lad, please... Yes, suffering and patience, what's wrong with it? I normally pay my travelfare.

:) Alright man, i can't argue with masochists...

TGP
20-01-2010, 12:40
I absolutely do not have any chips on my shoulders. I am not predetermined to be critical of any of my fellow citizens for no reason. Perhaps, you confuse that with giving a shit about your own country. Also, i do not frequent tanning salons as i was obviously referring to the girls i was describing. I think i just got carried away there and added another phrase. I was just back at MGU and got yelled at on regular basis by the hallway ladies AND the librarians for not knowing where the hell to go and trying to find out information. This isn't limited to bars and clubs. The only time and setting people won't be rude to you, is when you throw money around in an inappropriate manner, or you're in some expensive establishment.

BTW i didn't mean to be critical of all expats, it's just i was appalled at the responses Wu got.

I really wonder in which way you tried to find out information. I visited MGU several times a week for more than a year, and NEVER was a witness of such behavior. Very nice people everywhere.

I start thinking something is really wrong with those who are constantly "attacked" by rude Russians. As for throwing money around etc. - do it anywhere, not only in Russia, and they start licking your a$$. It's a matter of money but not of rudeness. Service at an expensive place is better than at a cheap one - this is what you pay for.

orlando771
20-01-2010, 14:08
dont worry about it, they are like that to everyone, but that doesnt mean we have to be the sameway also. pay it forward doesnt work well sometimes. what i do is,, change girl friends as often as i can and at night in the bed unleash my anger. next day i am fine..

GeorgeAgdgdgwngo
20-01-2010, 16:08
I love giving directions to foreign tourists in my city (I live in Saint Petersburg). I always try to teach them some good manners too. Often it involves explaining to them at length that you are not allowed to grin like an idiot or skip on one leg while listening to a Russian giving you directions. Is it so hard for you lot to show some respect? I understand that your values are very different from ours but if you have come to this country grow some Russian values at least for the time you are here. When I was visiting someone in America I bought myself a nice pair of cowboy boots to blend in, it was fun and the locals appreciated the effort. Why can't you lot do in St Petersburg as the St Petersburgers do and refrain from shouting on the metro? And for pity's sake, must you really point with your fingers? It makes my job of giving you directions very difficult.1

robertmf
20-01-2010, 16:25
:) Alright man, i can't argue with masochists...

:question: Are you getting evacuated because of the severe storms in LA :question: :floating:

Matt24
20-01-2010, 18:09
I think it's quite easy to mistake initial standoffishness for rudeness, as several writers have already noticed, you get tremendous returns from being polite and smiling, (but not like a loon as the previous poster has pointed out) - I come from possibly the most stand offish English speaking city in the world,(In Belfast we have had one or two issues over the years that initially make us quite suspicious of strangers) and find Russians distinctly warm and helpful - even the uniformed public services, 'melt' to a degree. if you say please and thank you, I think there's a cultural issue with some visitors to Russia, (from my POV North Americans especially), who wonder why they have to 'work at' receiving friendly responses, but that's just the way things are - I can remember visiting the US in the 80's and being terribly intimidated by all the "How you doing? / Have a nice day" thing, but you get used to it - now that I live in California for big lumps of the year, I often admit to knowing my waiter's cousin, or the queen, you get more regular refills and the waiter goes home with a war story, everybody happy.

The thing that I see going wrong all the time with intercultural communication, is the instant escalation, when a foreigner of sorts responds with offense to the stand offishness of an official or server, or in the case of california their overfamiliarity, the Russian/Californian party is as surprised as the foreigner, both parties feel under attack and it kicks off - the natural reaction to 'How you doing?' from a complete stranger for me and many of my western European compatriots, is 'what the hell has it got to do with you?' which doesn't go down well at all in Palo Alto.

As visitors to anywhere I suggest it's our duty to accept the cultural norm, and take the responsibility to prove that we come in peace.

Possibly

Matt

AleksLA
21-01-2010, 02:42
It's nice of everyone to be modest on this issue. I guess i have more leeway and liberty since i am Russian myself and should not have started an argument, conclusion of which is impossible for foreigners to accept in light of relativism and pc bullshit. I am confident though, that i am not just speaking for myself here and that this "phenomenon" is not universal in the Western world. Sure, "rudeness" is universal, no shit, but the extent of it in my country, is largely reduced to and misrepresented by the same word. I just don't understand why it cannot be recognized AT LEAST as "rude comparatively to the Western countries." If you went on some ethnographic field study and saw some girl get executed ritually to be buried with her deceased husband, would you not consider that murder by western standards? Or would you make fun of me for calling it such? I guess, there is nothing inherently wrong with respecting the culture and adapting but, i think this is a case which proves how backward this relativism shit can be. I not biased either, i don't point fingers or look like a loony tune and shout in the metro yet, still for 17 years (plus 5 years of periodic traveling back and forth) i have been a witness to all kinds of unpredictable and rude behavior. Whatever, hell, perhaps things have changes since i've been back 2 months ago. LOL :) As far as LA goes, we are f#cking drowning here, SOS!

Vadim
21-01-2010, 05:50
My friend, this is mainly for YOUR information: rudeness has never been a part of Russian character and will never become one. On the contrary, we are open and always try to be helpful, even in situations when desperately need help ourselves. The fact that we do not smile much and often say thanks by eyes only does not make us rude in any way. Orthodoxy (even if it's nominal) doesn't allow any of us to behave ignorantly or agressively. Especially to foreigners (not certain it's the right word, there were many of overseas born individuals in national history who came to Russia, lived and work here, and despite an accent became more Russian than many of those born ones), who were traditionally treated differently. No Russian can be rude to a foreigner without a reason. Do you mind Russian history? Who did build Russian army, fleet and bureaucratic institutions? Peter the Great. Who helped him? German and Dutch migrants. There is no hate in a character, its nonsense. However, I accept that Russians can be rude. That is in human nature, sometimes hiding deep, sometimes not. And you are a good sample yourself. Just take a time and re-read your posts. They are pretty offensive. And I am sorry if you do not see it, my friend. Now about your personal problems: i'm pretty certain you are the source of them. I have no idea why the girls at the library are so rude to you, there is no information given in your post, but a ticket inspector had definitely had a reason, yeah? Mind, they can take offenders to police stations.

AleksLA
21-01-2010, 06:46
My friend, this is mainly for YOUR information: rudeness has never been a part of Russian character and will never become one. On the contrary, we are open and always try to be helpful, even in situations when desperately need help ourselves. The fact that we do not smile much and often say thanks by eyes only does not make us rude in any way. Orthodoxy (even if it's nominal) doesn't allow any of us to behave ignorantly or agressively. Especially to foreigners (not certain it's the right word, there were many of overseas born individuals in national history who came to Russia, lived and work here, and despite an accent became more Russian than many of those born ones), who were traditionally treated differently. No Russian can be rude to a foreigner without a reason. Do you mind Russian history? Who did build Russian army, fleet and bureaucratic institutions? Peter the Great. Who helped him? German and Dutch migrants. There is no hate in a character, its nonsense. However, I accept that Russians can be rude. That is in human nature, sometimes hiding deep, sometimes not. And you are a good sample yourself. Just take a time and re-read your posts. They are pretty offensive. And I am sorry if you do not see it, my friend. Now about your personal problems: i'm pretty certain you are the source of them. I have no idea why the girls at the library are so rude to you, there is no information given in your post, but a ticket inspector had definitely had a reason, yeah? Mind, they can take offenders to police stations.

Strong claims but unfortunately, another case of bullshit jingoism. Why? Because you claim that in virtue of your religion you cannot be rude, because "no russian can be rude without a reason" and rudeness "has not been a part of russian character" which you then complement with "russians can be rude" why, you're just on a roll here... Then this rudeness finds itself in human nature which is obvious but thank you for making yourself understand that. So all you're saying essentially is "russians may or may not be rude." Thanks! About this vague human nature shit that rudeness is a part of, what the hell does that have anything to do with how this part of you realizes itself in society. As if all rudeness is the same and all of it realizes the same way. Pardon me, i have listed some archetypal examples of how this behavior materializes. Do you think i just made all this shit up to tease you? Are you accusing me of not paying for my f#cking bus ticket too? LOL

Also, if i seem rude to you, then you misunderstand. I don't like what you are saying and so i am making an counterargument. Being rude would be telling you that you have no idea what Russian character is, but i would never do that.

Vadim
21-01-2010, 07:25
Thanks for your response. There are no contradictions in what I've said. If no rudeness in a character, then it means there should be a significant reason for rudeness to appear in a specific situation. I'm sorry for misunderstanding the nature of your adventure. It was you who told about a ticket inspector, I have just made an obvious assumption that the only chance to get into troubles with it is not paying fare, otherwise how else had you a chance to be verbally abused by an alcoholic (you told that) ticket inspector?

AleksLA
21-01-2010, 07:44
Good luck proving to anyone that rudeness is absent from Russian character because apparently, if am rude to you, then you have already been refuted. Yeah and the significant reason for why i was yelled at "what are you stupid!" by a bus lady, is that i asked her where that bus might end up. Do not make this a personal issue. I can't believe i am getting all this shit for doing a bit of complaining... :)

P.S. question of the day, two young girls drinking beer and asking for money on Arbat, call you a "goat" after you politely refuse to donate ---rude, vulgar or both? :yuk:

Vadim
21-01-2010, 08:50
Okay, in the first version a conductor was drunk. Sorry, 'alcoholic'. I still cannot make the entire picture clear. Women in this country are less dependent of alcohol than men :-) I can still believe that a male inspector could smell alcohol after a night out, but female - never. Maybe times have changed since I left Moscow. As for girls, they ask about change or a cigarette everywhere, in Russia or in the UK, that's just normal and I believed it's a part of a youth culture. How do you know, maybe they simply want to attract your attention and hadn't fine any other idea to approach you? God knows the new generation customs and habits, cold be anything in their heads. As for me I don't mind giving a pound out. But will definitely refuse next time, just to listen what will be told. Pretty certain, will be nothing offensive, but promise to post result in here. What I would like to say trying to finish all this is that a proper man should always look inside of him first and only later - to look for problem in others. Proved Russian way... As for this topic, it's been started by a visitor or migrant, facing GENUINE troubles with understanding what's happening and why. I an very curious why do YOU experience cultural shock?

AleksLA
21-01-2010, 09:53
Okay, in the first version a conductor was drunk. Sorry, 'alcoholic'. I still cannot make the entire picture clear. Women in this country are less dependent of alcohol than men :-) I can still believe that a male inspector could smell alcohol after a night out, but female - never. Maybe times have changed since I left Moscow. As for girls, they ask about change or a cigarette everywhere, in Russia or in the UK, that's just normal and I believed it's a part of a youth culture. How do you know, maybe they simply want to attract your attention and hadn't fine any other idea to approach you? God knows the new generation customs and habits, cold be anything in their heads. As for me I don't mind giving a pound out. But will definitely refuse next time, just to listen what will be told. Pretty certain, will be nothing offensive, but promise to post result in here. What I would like to say trying to finish all this is that a proper man should always look inside of him first and only later - to look for problem in others. Proved Russian way... As for this topic, it's been started by a visitor or migrant, facing GENUINE troubles with understanding what's happening and why. I an very curious why do YOU experience cultural shock?

You seem to be fascinated with this country regardless. Of course, none of these romantic views are consoling... I could tell you anything and you'd come up with some outlandish explanation referencing "new generations" or people's mental problems. And still, you fail to understand that just because i am Russian, doesn't mean i will tolerate any and all disrespect. I am also not culture shocked but rather seriously annoyed by this behavior. Thanks for patronizing me though and disregarding my problems as "ingenuine". Seriously, why the hell would i be here, talking to you online about rudeness, if i had not genuine problems with it. I am certainly done here:) Do svidaniya! :)

Viola
22-01-2010, 12:50
P.S. question of the day, two young girls drinking beer and asking for money on Arbat, call you a "goat" after you politely refuse to donate ---rude, vulgar or both? :yuk:

Answer of the day, two young men (homeless??) waking up in their sleeping bags in the pedestrian subway under the Oxford Circus and asking for money, call "....." after I politely refused to donate.

AleksLA
23-01-2010, 02:16
Again, i am not saying rudeness is unique to one f#cking country. It varies in degree, not in its entirety. Wow.

Vadim
23-01-2010, 20:26
???????!.. :-)

Vadim
23-01-2010, 20:31
Sorry, encoding error above, mobile is not properly russified. It was ZANAVES!.. in Russian

sweetfart
31-01-2010, 21:30
People in Moscow are rude, but I don't care because I'll just be 10x ruder to them. Normally, I'm a nice person but if you wanna get off on the wrong foot with me I'll make sure to ruin your day. I went to a restaurant and had a really rude waitress. My Russian isn't that good right now, but I was definitely trying and I was being polite. She had the biggest attitude - and yes, I can tell when it's just Russian intonation and when they're actually being rude. So I made sure to be really obnoxious and make the order complicated for her. After I paid the bill, I left exactly ONE kopeck as a tip. I meant that as an insult.

The other day at the metro station some guy slammed me into the wall because he was in a hurry. Thing is, it wasn't even crowded and he clearly had enough space to get through. So I followed him and when he was on the edge of the stairs, I "accidentally" ran into him and made him fall down a couple stairs. I just walked on. I think he was too surprised to realize what I did.

So yeah, I'm over it. I don't care where I am, if you want to be rude I will treat you like trash. Because that's essentially what rudeness constitutes. It's trashy mentality.

Vadim
31-01-2010, 22:01
Simply kill next time. :-)

robertmf
31-01-2010, 22:41
People in Moscow are rude, but I don't care because I'll just be 10x ruder to them. Normally, I'm a nice person but if you wanna get off on the wrong foot with me I'll make sure to ruin your day. I went to a restaurant and had a really rude waitress. My Russian isn't that good right now, but I was definitely trying and I was being polite. She had the biggest attitude - and yes, I can tell when it's just Russian intonation and when they're actually being rude. So I made sure to be really obnoxious and make the order complicated for her. After I paid the bill, I left exactly ONE kopeck as a tip. I meant that as an insult.

The other day at the metro station some guy slammed me into the wall because he was in a hurry. Thing is, it wasn't even crowded and he clearly had enough space to get through. So I followed him and when he was on the edge of the stairs, I "accidentally" ran into him and made him fall down a couple stairs. I just walked on. I think he was too surprised to realize what I did.


:10220: Hell hath no fury like a woman ruded. :elf:

quincy
31-01-2010, 22:46
The other day at the metro station some guy slammed me into the wall because he was in a hurry. Thing is, it wasn't even crowded and he clearly had enough space to get through. So I followed him and when he was on the edge of the stairs, I "accidentally" ran into him and made him fall down a couple stairs. I just walked on. I think he was too surprised to realize what I did.

So yeah, I'm over it. I don't care where I am, if you want to be rude I will treat you like trash. Because that's essentially what rudeness constitutes. It's trashy mentality.
it sounds as though he didn't intend to be rude

Vadim
31-01-2010, 23:41
Seriously speaking, this lad should express his sorry in some way as it was his fault. Plus, there was a lady offended in this situation. It was no excuse for escaping from the scene without even a word. However, has anyone mentioned how locals move in the areas like metro or in busy streets? (I mean locals, not lads just yesterday arrived to Moscow from a quiet Russian province) They try to go fast and take as little space as only needed for them, even if there just a few people it sight. They go rather by the walls than in the middle of gangways. This style is common to big cities like Moscow or London. If someone doesn't do it, this could be considered as non respect. (At least) I had always felt it when some guys just looked around and made much inconvenience in the crowd. People in the metro are not aware, if you are a foreigner or not, and for how long do you live in Moscow, they think you are the same as them, and expect the certain type of behavior. When in metro it is: rush, watch, and stay clear when a pack of elephants is jumping out of train. No problems will arise then.

sweetfart
31-01-2010, 23:59
Seriously speaking, this lad should express his sorry in some way as it was his fault. Plus, there was a lady offended in this situation. It was no excuse for escaping from the scene without even a word. However, has anyone mentioned how locals move in the areas like metro or in busy streets? (I mean locals, not lads just yesterday arrived to Moscow from a quiet Russian province) They try to go fast and take as little space as only needed for them, even if there just a few people it sight. They go rather by the walls than in the middle of gangways. This style is common to big cities like Moscow or London. If someone doesn't do it, this could be considered as non respect. (At least) I had always felt it when some guys just looked around and made much inconvenience in the crowd. People in the metro are not aware, if you are a foreigner or not, and for how long do you live in Moscow, they think you are the same as them, and expect the certain type of behavior. When in metro it is: rush, watch, and stay clear when a pack of elephants is jumping out of train. No problems will arise then.

I wouldn't have felt any different if it had been a woman or if I was a man. Whether he intended to or not, he was rude by invading my personal space and actually slamming me against the wall (which is technically assault in the dictionary sense, BTW). I understand people are busy and trying to get somewhere and it's okay to brush up against someone if you're in a hurry, but to actually slam me against the wall is extremely disrespectful. Even if it was an accident, he could have apologized.

And I do notice how people are crazy in the metro stations. It scares me how people RUN down those steep escalators like that. I haven't seen one person fall yet. Impressive. I have seen several people jump over the ticket scanner machines without paying...some of them did this in front of the militsia with no consequences.

Willy
01-02-2010, 01:02
I like how on buses and the metro everyone will crowd by the doors and the rest of the car or bus will be empty.

tvadim133
01-02-2010, 01:09
I wouldn't have felt any different if it had been a woman or if I was a man. Whether he intended to or not, he was rude by invading my personal space and actually slamming me against the wall (which is technically assault in the dictionary sense, BTW). I understand people are busy and trying to get somewhere and it's okay to brush up against someone if you're in a hurry, but to actually slam me against the wall is extremely disrespectful. Even if it was an accident, he could have apologized.

And I do notice how people are crazy in the metro stations. It scares me how people RUN down those steep escalators like that. I haven't seen one person fall yet. Impressive. I have seen several people jump over the ticket scanner machines without paying...some of them did this in front of the militsia with no consequences.

People are different, but in Metro, even a good person becomes not very (!).

robertmf
01-02-2010, 01:13
The other day at the metro station some guy slammed me into the wall because he was in a hurry. Thing is, it wasn't even crowded and he clearly had enough space to get through. So I followed him and when he was on the edge of the stairs, I "accidentally" ran into him and made him fall down a couple stairs. I just walked on. I think he was too surprised to realize what I did.


:jester: You really must try the Tokyo metro/subway/tube during rush hour :10241:

Vadim
01-02-2010, 02:06
I hate it how people are loading into the buses. It wasn't always like that. I remember different time. In my point of view city council must do more to increase bus fleet or to remove these horrible turnstiles from machines, or at least do something at all... None gives up seats, elderly need to fight for them. That was different! And must be returned back to its natural standard from this jungle version which we all see.

Vadim
01-02-2010, 04:13
Attn: SWEETFART. Yeah, I see. The main issue is that personal space there is a bit smaller :-) historically. He didn't even think about invading it, and in his opinion he did not. Slumming against a wall was really a bad thing. There is no excuse when it's done to a woman. Women were always treated differently in Russia, and hopefully it's still the same. But this offence will unlikely attract any attention of a police officer, as there will never be a witness of such an assault, as often happens in a crowd. Maximum what police would do is to listen to the victim and to check offender's ID. If he has one, they will 'advise' him about being polite and not to cause inconvenience for other commuters. If no ID produced, they will take him to a small police office which every metro station has. But this is to question about possible violation of Moscow registration scheme. (This is not about immigration, Russians from outside of Moscow must have temporal addresses registered with the police, violators are subjects to fines). It's the only possible set of troubles you could award to this lad :-) Chasing him in a crowd was a bad idea from the very beginning. First, he could be aggressive, second, doing this is an offence too. As for running down on escalator, the chance to see anyone falling is extremely rare, I've seen it only once in my life (Muscovites polish this skill starting from early childhood), that gentleman was deadly drunk and didn't even run, trying simply to stay on it. He was lucky enough to end up his journey down the steps with one finger broken. As for the police and 'hares' (Russian slang for those travelling without fare). Next time really report it. These wankers are in paid full time employment.

robertmf
01-02-2010, 06:08
Attn: SWEETFART. Slumming against a wall was really a bad thing.

I agree. If SWEETFART was slumming (for Johns), then she should attract the attention of the police (plus Johns if she is cute). :smokin:

Vadim
01-02-2010, 06:28
What's John?

2ndWind
01-02-2010, 06:33
:jester: You really must try the Tokyo metro/subway/tube during rush hour :10241:

Absolutely! I haven't lived there since the 1960s but it was incredible how fast they could empty and refill a train. The pushers are for real and they even sold a special ultra slippery jacket that could be worn in order to slide more easily into the pack. I can't imagine how they have handled the increased demands since then. The concept of "personal space" is relative.

AleksLA
02-02-2010, 10:41
it sounds as though he didn't intend to be rude

Does intent really matter when you get pushed into a wall? The point i've been trying to make, is that descriptively, our Russian culture is rougher relatively to the Western World. Im not trying to justify why it is so...whether because of its history and economy, its climate or because the personal bubble is tighter there. The fact that it is, makes it harder to live there. Which puts it in a disadvantage to the West and makes it weaker as a soft power economy.
The comparison of a person invading your personal space on a half-empty bus and overpopulation of Tokyo is kind of disproportionate. Even though that's pretty crazy and wild...

tvadim133
02-02-2010, 13:31
[QUOTE=AleksLA;618754..... The fact that it is, makes it harder to live there. Which puts it in a disadvantage to the West and makes it weaker as a soft power economy......
[/QUOTE]

I am not sure you are right completely, regarding West and soft economy, I will answer later.

I would agree that the way of behaviour polite or rude is "built" cause of different factors (including conditions of life, family upbringining (probable, in opposition to it, even the character of job, economic situation).

I would agree that;

1. the economy of West seems to be soft (or let's say "civilized" (that is it is comfortable to make business);

2. it does not mean, people are not flexible in "battle situation" and changed from being relax to "I will achieve it and kill others for that",

Just look at some airport line to registarion desk during vacation: people watch and can be very aggressive towards a guy or a girls who have just missed their turn. Not russian, not ukrainian people in the line.

Jacta Alea Est
02-02-2010, 14:47
I love giving directions to foreign tourists in my city (I live in Saint Petersburg). I always try to teach them some good manners too. Often it involves explaining to them at length that you are not allowed to grin like an idiot or skip on one leg while listening to a Russian giving you directions. Is it so hard for you lot to show some respect? I understand that your values are very different from ours but if you have come to this country grow some Russian values at least for the time you are here. When I was visiting someone in America I bought myself a nice pair of cowboy boots to blend in, it was fun and the locals appreciated the effort. Why can't you lot do in St Petersburg as the St Petersburgers do and refrain from shouting on the metro? And for pity's sake, must you really point with your fingers? It makes my job of giving you directions very difficult.1
Has it occurred to you that when people smile or grin while you are talking - they are doing so out of appreciation and not disrespect? I suppose this comes down to cultural differences - I come from a place where we all have permanent grins on our faces... some people might think we look like idiots but our philosophy is simple - don't let your problems shine on your face.. positive faces attract positivity.

Having said this - George I do not find the gloom and doom look to be something that I should adapt because I am living in your country - I respect Russia and its people very very much but to ask me to change my personal outlook is over the top... for the record if people are asking you directions would it not be natural for them to gesticulate? Everyone does it when giving or responding to directions..

George have a super day and try not to be overly sensitive :-) - I too find it irritating to 'shout' on the metro but I also find being gloomy looking just as bad - nevertheless everyone has to right to look sad, happy, rude, gloomy or crazy, gesticulate - as long as they are not doing something illegal or out of provocation.

Viola
02-02-2010, 15:08
JAE, I think George was joking :D

tvadim133
02-02-2010, 15:11
- I too find it irritating to 'shout' on the metro but I also find being gloomy looking just as bad - nevertheless everyone has to right to look sad, happy, rude, gloomy or crazy, gesticulate - as long as they are not doing something illegal or out of provocation.

I agree with you!

I think, when you smile and even just to try to look happy, it (feeling, emotions, happiness can come).

But I knowm, that in Russia there are two reasons why people do not do it all the time.

1. from ancient time (it s very deep in minds, even people do not understand it), russians were afraid of calling evil,so to show you are great could be paied attention by evil or bad people;

2. there is proverb, laugh without reason is a symptom of being a fool. So People smile excatly, if it is funny, not because, there is a need to show;
Beside russian do not like to look funny

It is my opinion and some conclusions from some books, i read.

P.S. It is changing, especialy with young people!

Vadim
02-02-2010, 17:36
Okay lads, this will never stop I think. Let's try a different approach, something like "What did I do to make people rude" or "What's wrong with me". This will definitely work and can sort all the problems with personal spaces. I tried it myself. Just trust me, it works great.

gek roken
02-02-2010, 17:48
I think rudness has nothing to do with nationality here. It's a matter of personality.
I met a lot of people in my life and u know... shit happens every where with everybody.
In UK, in Turkey, in US.
We know that there is a lot of people in Russia who are shame for our country, but this is not our or our country's fault. This is just life..
I don't think this is a big deal

Benedikt
02-02-2010, 19:36
and if you can't swear in russian language, swera in german or english or swaheli, the louder the better, no one needs to understand but the meaning is the same. and i suppose since you UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE PEOPLE TOLD YOU, OTHERWISE YO UWOULD NOT REPET IT HERE, WHY NOT JUST SHOUT BACK AT THEM. TIT FOR TAT. I KNOW WE SHOULD NOT DO IT, THAT BRINGS US TO THE SAME LEVEL AS THEM, AND SO FORTH. but sometimes it is better to let go and i do it. and if for nothing else, i will not eat the frustration down and let me get an ulcer.....


Real life examples of Russian rudeness and madness

For those of you who are still doubtful about my claims about Russian rudeness, wondering if I’m the source of the problem, here are some real life examples that have occurred back in Moscow that I forgot to mention before.

One time, in the Time Online internet café under the Red Square, as I was going to the bathroom, a janitor lady mopping the floor told me to go to the women’s restroom as the men’s one was closed for cleaning now. At first, I couldn’t understand, but when I did, I went to the restroom doors to try to see which one was the women’s. As I stood there for 2 or 3 seconds trying to see the marking on the door, suddenly the janitor lady blew up at me and yelled in a fiery voice in Russian “I told you to go to the women’s restroom you stupid! Get out of here! The restrooms are closed for you!” Taken aback, I quickly went into the women’s restroom while I still could, trying to feel pity for the lady rather than anger, since she obviously must be a very unhappy person to do that. But sheesh, come on, how would it make you feel to be in a place where you don’t even have the freedom to stand for 2 or 3 seconds to look at the sign on the door?! That is beyond rudeness. It’s petty insanity of the most dysfunctional kind. Can you imagine how annoying it is to put up with sh** like that on a regular basis?

Another time, near metro Chistie Prudy, I went into a casino cash exchange booth, and told the teller that I wanted to change a 50 dollar bill into two 20’s and a 10, but not into roubles. She told me to put the cash into the window pocket, but I wanted to make sure she understood so I asked her in Russian if she understood. When I did, she blew up at me and yelled in an angry voice “Just put the cash in, you stupid!” I was stunned and couldn’t believe that she would blow up like that over my simple clarification to her! What kind of madness is that? No one can blame me or say that I am at fault for these kind of things, which would never happen in the Western World I’m from.

Finally, more recently here in Yoshkar-Ola, when my girlfriend Alina and I were in a café across from Virginia Agency, all of a sudden a building staff person in the middle of the place starting pounding nails with a hammer loudly to fix a table, completely oblivious to how disruptive the loud noise was to the café patrons. I was shocked and bewildered at how any civilized human being could be that inconsiderate and shameless, lacking any empathy for others, and not feeling any embarrassment for his rude disruptive action! Clearly without a doubt, many people here are the rudest in the world, sometimes being rude beyond imagination. There can be no denying that.

AleksLA
02-02-2010, 23:39
I started introducing myself to one of the professors at MGU because i was like 3 days late and he said, "i don't wanna hear it; sit down." Lol. I thought that was pretty punk rock. On the other hand, when some anonymous lady on the bus calls me stupid it's not very welcoming. There is no reason why anyone should be ready for unnecessary bickering with bus ladies/men, waitresses, librarians and outright rude metro pedestrians. I understand some of these people are in tough situations but, come on, if we can't expect our librarians to be polite, then frankly, we're F#CKED as a nation. Vadim, are you formally accepting confessions from foreigners now? Father i've sinned... :)

Vadim
03-02-2010, 00:56
You cannot just come and say it to your priest, Alex. Try to visit your nearest church. The stuff is more complicated. This is a duty of a sinner to convince a Holy Father that he accepts and fully understand the load which sins make. Only after that, once your priest is convinced you will be allowed to talk to him. If not - he will send you home. Do not be upset with a rudeness of your priest who will expect you to tell complete stories in presence of other sinners quelleing a step away and awaitingng for their turn. It's normal. Not offensive and doesn't limit your personal space in any way. That's just how it works in Orthodoxy.

Judge
03-02-2010, 01:30
remove these horrible turnstiles from machines,

Turnstiles are needed,alot more money is being made because of turnstiles...Before about 40% of passengers didn't bother paying for bus,tram and trolley bus rides.

Vadim
03-02-2010, 01:49
Those who want can keep fare. I saw many youngsters just going through without paying anything. Drivers do not look really bothered.

Judge
03-02-2010, 02:22
Those who want can keep fare. I saw many youngsters just going through without paying anything. Drivers do not look really bothered.

Youngsters sneak under turnstiles,that's common.
Drivers are more concerned about stopping people sneaking on the bus through the side doors.Many times I have seen drivers refuse to move because someone jumped on without paying...

Vadim
03-02-2010, 03:04
How to make passengers quelleing before boarding? What's happening looks sometimes scaring. It was different before, and I do not know from where this new style came from. It looks like people of Moscow differ from the people of Zelenograd, which is nothing else but a remote Moscow area. They usually line up and make quelles before boarding, but proper Muscovites from inner Moscow never do that.

Benedikt
03-02-2010, 09:03
unfortunately this is not the UK where people queue in line. at the bus or tram stop. it has just not gone through to them, that boarding will be much faster then when everyone stops through the door like a horde of wild buffalo. amazingly people will stand in line, more or less orderly, in any shop, or ticket boot. this they have learned during cccp time and it is still ingrained. suppose no one told them to stand in line at the bus stop. there is also another reason. 'before' the invention of turnstiles, all three or four doors of the bus or tram opened and people could move in and out quickly. now only one door opens to let people in and only THEN will the driver open the doors to let people out. it is also a system that has to be learned and thought. or what they do now (out here in Strogino) the tram stops a few meters BEFORE the stop to let people out. And at the stop, only the first door is opened to let people in, through the turnstiles.
One gets used to these things, and we will also get used to it. by the way, according to statistics from Mosgortrans there are still 15% zaichiki,fare dodging passengers, the fines are to low. i can ride on the tram or bus for days on end and never see a controller. so people think, well a ticket is 25 rubles at the conductor, chances to get fined are fairly slim, so they take the chance. it is also a way of upbringing and education, that in the end, we pay anyway everybody for public transport. and the fare paying passenger just pays for the faredodger...



How to make passengers quelleing before boarding? What's happening looks sometimes scaring. It was different before, and I do not know from where this new style came from. It looks like people of Moscow differ from the people of Zelenograd, which is nothing else but a remote Moscow area. They usually line up and make quelles before boarding, but proper Muscovites from inner Moscow never do that.

Judge
03-02-2010, 10:12
I use trams,trolley buses ,buses and minivans everyday here in moscow.
For minivans and trams people queue up normally(most of the time) because these type of transports stop at the exact place everytime unlike buses and trolley buses...
You often see cars parked near bus stops,when this happen the bus can't stop at the right place..

Jacta Alea Est
03-02-2010, 12:06
JAE, I think George was joking :D
Well if George was being sarcastic he should have used a smiley...so I don't think he was...

Jacta Alea Est
03-02-2010, 12:10
I agree with you!

I think, when you smile and even just to try to look happy, it (feeling, emotions, happiness can come).

But I knowm, that in Russia there are two reasons why people do not do it all the time.

1. from ancient time (it s very deep in minds, even people do not understand it), russians were afraid of calling evil,so to show you are great could be paied attention by evil or bad people;

2. there is proverb, laugh without reason is a symptom of being a fool. So People smile excatly, if it is funny, not because, there is a need to show;
Beside russian do not like to look funny

It is my opinion and some conclusions from some books, i read.

P.S. It is changing, especialy with young people!
Interesting thoughts tvadim... the evil bit sounds like "bad eye" where I come from... they say you should not admire babies or people too much nor tell them how great they are because it could unleash bad luck...