PDA

View Full Version : Is Christianity a religion of peace? (re: Koba)



Sparafucile
08-02-2005, 10:22
I have been trying fruitlessly for the past few days to get our resident Christian hypocrite, Koba, to express even SOME regret that his so-called "Christian" nation of USA have mass-murdered 110,000+ innocent civilians in Iraq. People who represented no threat to the USA or its population whatsoever.

So - is Christianity a religion of peace?

Frankly, I doubt it.

All I see is a heap of so-called "Christians" doing whatever the hell they like, mass-murdering, torturing, maiming, abducting and detaining without trial....

.... and all "in the Name Of The Lord".

I accuse Christians, and especially the Christian God-Squad money-making movement in Russia, of total hypocrisy in a bogus religious set-up established to justify any illegal act they indulge in.

I would be interested to hear exactly WHAT justification can be offered for mass murder?????????????????????

rupert
08-02-2005, 10:40
This really is a very simplistic view of the actual events and consequences of the actions of war.

Obviously you are against the war and are looking for any anti US way to reconcile your personal beliefs. No, I am not from the US and did not agree with the war.

However, there are strict international laws on how war is conducted. In these laws is enshrined the principles of minimising civilian causalities. However when your enemy uses civilians as human shields and the combatants are not in uniform it is difficult to know who you are fighting. Also, how many of these casualties have been killed by their own people as they wouldn’t support the terrorist thugs, sorry insurgents.

Does your convenient definition of ‘thou shall not kill’ only apply to US/UK troops or does it encompass dictators who have no qualms about killing their own people or flouting international law?

preacher of hedonism
08-02-2005, 12:29
I don't know any religion, at least not any of the major ones, that promotes war

kniga
08-02-2005, 12:44
Rupert,

You will have to be careful with your calm, intelligent responses on this forum. Here, ad hominem attacks have been honed to a fine art and logic reposes quietly in the sock drawers of most posters. Of course, if your profile is accurate and you really are 84, then I may be the only one here who will understand you anyway. :-)

rupert
08-02-2005, 14:41
Originally posted by kniga
Rupert,

You will have to be careful with your calm, intelligent responses on this forum. Here, ad hominem attacks have been honed to a fine art and logic reposes quietly in the sock drawers of most posters. Of course, if your profile is accurate and you really are 84, then I may be the only one here who will understand you anyway. :-)

Sorry, it won’t happen again. I will go and lie down in a dark room to recover…;)

kniga
08-02-2005, 15:08
Rupert,

Well, at any rate, I'm happy to learn that there is someone here older than I am! :-)

koba65
08-02-2005, 20:32
Originally posted by Sparafucile
I have been trying fruitlessly for the past few days to get our resident Christian hypocrite, Koba, to express even SOME regret that his so-called "Christian" nation of USA have mass-murdered 110,000+ innocent civilians in Iraq. People who represented no threat to the USA or its population whatsoever.

So - is Christianity a religion of peace?

Frankly, I doubt it.

All I see is a heap of so-called "Christians" doing whatever the hell they like, mass-murdering, torturing, maiming, abducting and detaining without trial....

.... and all "in the Name Of The Lord".

I accuse Christians, and especially the Christian God-Squad money-making movement in Russia, of total hypocrisy in a bogus religious set-up established to justify any illegal act they indulge in.

I would be interested to hear exactly WHAT justification can be offered for mass murder?????????????????????

Oh dearie me - once again and read carefully - I have N E V E R said that I am a Christian and have N E V E R used Christianity as a reason for any military action.

I'd consider you a legitimate "anti-war" activist if you could debate on the merits of the issue instead of waging a personal vendetta against someone who disagrees with you. We could debate endlessly about the horrors of war and about the innocents who become victimized by it - but to what end? You don't appear to be willing to have a rational debate on the issues, but would rather disparage me. If you must know, I was not a huge supporter of waging war in Iraq - but not for the reasons to which you suscribe.

I know damn well what wars and military conflicts do to people. My first real memories of my father are of him lying in traction on his back at a Veterans' hospital in the States recovering from very serious combat wounds that left him permanently paralyzed. And, as a member of the VFW, I see constant reminders of what war does to people. So to suggest I am somehow applauding the loss of life and limb is ludicrous. But I will suggest that you have no real remorse over the suffering of the Iraqis - for you it's just more fodder to espouse your point of view. The way you coldly toss out statistics as facts and never lament the horrors inflicted on the Iraqi people by the terrorists/insurgents or on the past regime is proof positive that your real motives are to disparage and deride others. The fact that you can only denounce the US as the "criminal" in this conflict leaving out the participation of your own country shows what your true motives are.

You started another thread about democracy in Iraq and suggested that Kniga, Trebor and I would not be too happy about the results. I cannot respond for them, but I can say that the results were expected and the Iraqi people, for the first time in ages, were able to participate in a democratic process. I do not think there was anyone in the Bush or Blair Administrations who believed that the party of the interim president would carry the day. You should be cheering the Iraqi people who braved the death threats and voted. I know I do.

Halyavshik
08-02-2005, 22:08
I don't see how a Christian's ACTIONS represent the religon itself. Whether or not Koba or Bush or anyone else is Christian, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, Zoastrian, etc cannot be a reflection of whether the religon is peaceful or not. The actions merely reflect that person's interpretation of the religon.

As such, you may criticize Koba for his opinions on the war, but not for his religon. OTherwise, it's just a personal attack and uncalled for.

Sparafucile
09-02-2005, 00:55
>> As such, you may criticize Koba for his opinions on the war, but not for his religon. OTherwise, it's just a personal attack and uncalled for <<

I beg to disagree, Halyavshik.

Let us look at one of their Christian texts - the Gospel of St Matthew. Matthew is discussing how one will know the true believers.

"Ye shall know them by their deeds" - Matt 7:16

One only has to look at the "deeds" of these "Christians" (amongst whom President Bush numbers himself most vocally).

- 110,000 civilian fatalities in Iraq. Mostly they were deliberately targetted. For example, in Fallujah, 670 women, children and pensioners died in the space of a single afternoon. The flew helicopters over the streets with machine-guns, to drive people into their houses.... and then they bombed the houses with the people instead. They then kept-up the machine-gun spray for three more days, so that no-one could go to the aid of the dead and dying in the bombed buildings. When he was asked about this, another charming "Christian", Britain's Tony Blair said "It was an unfortunate necessity". SINCE WHEN HAS THE DELIBERATE BOMBING OF CIVILIAN TARGETS BEEN ANY KIND OF "NECESSITY"?

- the detention centre on Guantanamo, which is the original topic of this thread. "Christians" are holding hundreds of people entirely illegally. There is no basis for their arrest. There is no charge on which they are held. There is NO LAW under which they are held. Let us remember, Guantanamo was chosen SPECIFICALLY because International Law does not hold there. They have deliberately chosen to abrogate all process of law.

In the speech to the nation in which Bush launched his attacks on Iraq, he originally said it would be a "New Crusade". This version of the speech got right through until the penultimate take. An Advisor then suggested it would sound exactly like the religious persecution of muslims which it has turned out to be. So the phrase "A War On Terror" was substituted.

Nothing else changed, however. This war was and remains a "Christian" attack on muslims. It doesn't matter WHICH muslims, or what they were guilty of. In practice, the people who have died in Iraq were guilty of NOTHING, except living in the land where they were born.

But try explaining that to the Christians like Koba?? Koba, regrettably, assuming everyone is as crooked as he is. He's already accused me of profiteering from Americans whilst decrying their war - whereas in fact I have consistently turned down each and every business transaction with an American client since the first bombs dropped. And will continue to do so whilst the illegal occupation continues. You will note above that Koba also says that I don't genuinely care about the deaths of 110,000 Iraqis??? Of course we know KOBA doesn't care, he's made that perfectly clear that he will murder, maim, rape and steal to the Glory of his Lord.

Christianity is a religion I despise. I despise it because mysteriously those who claim to be the "insiders" are always ready to give themselves a "pass" on rules which are supposed to apply to the rest of us?? Like mass-murder, for example.

>> Does your convenient definition of ‘thou shall not kill’ only apply to US/UK troops or does it encompass dictators who have no qualms about killing their own people or flouting international law? <<

Explain to me, "Rupert", exactly what strategic benefits resulted from bombing 600+ women and children in Fallujah, and deliberately and calculatedly massacring them?? You're OH so brave when you kill women and children, aren't you? Don't tell me - your GOD told you it was ok to do it??

Simplistic, Rupert? You know, there is something in simplicity. To either be alive - or be dead. One minute you are in your kitchen cooking some lunch - the next moment Uncle Sam has blown you away TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY GHOST.

Kniga - I don't associate with mass-murderers, or those who cheer them on. They deserve only contempt, and you certainly have mine. What you forget, Mr Pious, is that respect can't be bought for yankee dollars (especially at the present exchange rate). It is earned. You've failed to earn any. Therefore, you get no respect from me.

Here's a picture of the Lord's work being done:

Sparafucile
09-02-2005, 00:58
Kniga - you approve of this below. That is why I detest you, and refuse to bother to be in the slightest polite to you. Because I don't just reach out for the Good Book to tell me what's right and wrong. We atheists actually have to THINK ABOUT THE RESULTS OF OUR ACTIONS.

koba65
09-02-2005, 03:22
"But try explaining that to the Christians like Koba?? Koba, regrettably, assuming everyone is as crooked as he is. He's already accused me of profiteering from Americans whilst decrying their war - whereas in fact I have consistently turned down each and every business transaction with an American client since the first bombs dropped. And will continue to do so whilst the illegal occupation continues. You will note above that Koba also says that I don't genuinely care about the deaths of 110,000 Iraqis??? Of course we know KOBA doesn't care, he's made that perfectly clear that he will murder, maim, rape and steal to the Glory of his Lord. "

You have zero idea of who I am or what I do, or what I believe in. I won't bother to respond to your claims calling me a criminal or whatever. I will tell you this - I am not a businessman - My work is for a (non-religious/non-political) humanitarian organization. Before that I worked on projects connected with eliminating weapons of mass destruction. So, instead of pontificating about the evils in the world, I chose to go out and do something about it and usually at risk to my health and safety. So scream on Sparafucile - what have you done to contribute positively to society?

Leslie Presley
09-02-2005, 03:57
How are you descibing CHRISTIANS?

Does merely believing Jesus is the Son of God make you are a Christian and will go to heaven? Of course not!

If Adolf Hitler believed that Jesus is the Son Of God does that mean that he is in heaven, not withstanding all the American soldiers he killed? Of course not!

If Lee Harvey Oswald believed Jesus is the Son of God, does that mean he is in heaven despite all the prostitutes he hired? Of course not!

If O J Simpson believes that Jesus is the Son f God, does that mean he is going to heaven even though he married a white woman? Of course not!

The vast majority of people today claiming to be CHRISTIANS do not have a clue. They don't have a Christian bone in their bodies. They claim they know God loves them because they saw a banner at a college football game that said 'John 3:16.' Well, let me tell you, friends and believers, there are a heck of a lot more Bible verses than that one.

It must be pointed out that God has historically hated sinners anfd frequently condemned them to painful deaths. For instance, as a lesson to those who have the audacity to show physical love to the same gender, God incinerated the genitals, mouths and every other orifice involved in such sexual practises in the towns of Sodom and Gomorra. As a lesson to those who are fat and sloppy, God struck down a town with a vicious plague which made that last drum-stick taste non too good and wiped out every living person. And during one particular bad mood, God threw the lessons out of the window and killed every man, woman and infant on the planet - except Noah's family - with a great flood. Its a good job these John 3:16 liberals weren't living then.

Our great President - Mr Bush - is doing everything in his power to fast-forward God's plan to to get to the good part where the world is destroyed and and evangelical christians are raptured to Glory.

Mr Bush has taken America from being the most respected country on earth to the most hated. He put a stop to that ridiculous treaty Clinton signed to end global warming because after all, couldn't global warming be one ot the ways in which God plans to kill the planet as told in the Book of Revalation? Mr Bush has enacted legislation that allows law enforcement officials to treat every one of us like the Nazi's justifably treated those Christ-killing Jews over half a century ago - providing they say their actions are part of a 'terror' investigation.

Mr Bush has dramatically increased the number of terrorists who want to destroy us with his innovative anf powerful " Because I said so you foreign ass-wipes!" In short he has done everything he can to accelerate the time the godly will have to wait to be reunited with Jesus. He is obviously impatient with the Lord, who has been promising imminent global destruction for millennia. Our crafty president has decided that if he goes ahead and gives the Lord a head start, God will be more inclined to jump on the band-wagon and and finish things off, thwarting Democrats' efforts at so called 'social justice.'

J.D.
09-02-2005, 08:20
Originally posted by Sparafucile
>> Let us look at one of their Christian texts - the Gospel of St Matthew. Matthew is discussing how one will know the true believers.

"Ye shall know them by their deeds" - Matt 7:16

One only has to look at the "deeds" of these "Christians" (amongst whom President Bush numbers himself most vocally).


Again you show your total inability to understand the written word.


(and I certainlly don't expect you to see the pun there)

Matthew is saying that you can recognize whether or not they are really Christians by their deeds.

Are you blinded by prejudice, ignorance or stupidity?

Eye Opener
09-02-2005, 13:43
Originally posted by Sparafucile
I have been trying fruitlessly for the past few days to get our resident Christian hypocrite, Koba, to express even SOME regret that his so-called "Christian" nation of USA have mass-murdered 110,000+ innocent civilians in Iraq. People who represented no threat to the USA or its population whatsoever.

So - is Christianity a religion of peace?

Frankly, I doubt it.

All I see is a heap of so-called "Christians" doing whatever the hell they like, mass-murdering, torturing, maiming, abducting and detaining without trial....

.... and all "in the Name Of The Lord".

I accuse Christians, and especially the Christian God-Squad money-making movement in Russia, of total hypocrisy in a bogus religious set-up established to justify any illegal act they indulge in.

I would be interested to hear exactly WHAT justification can be offered for mass murder?????????????????????

Excuse me, but the Iraq war was launched by the States because of the:
a. Oil;
b. A threat Iraq posed to Israel

It was lobbied by Israeli and oil lobbies, and there is no Christian track can be found in it (mind you neither Iraq hadn't been an Islamic State per ce until recently).

As far as Russia- for 70 something years it has been under militant anti-Christian communist rule, and you call it Christian now.

Sparafucile
09-02-2005, 14:12
>> Again you show your total inability to understand the written word. <<

Really? Where, exactly? Because I don't accept your wilful interpretation, I'm "unable to understand the written word"??

Pun? What would you know about humo(u)r anyhow? I believe a capitalised W is missing from your "pun".

I missed the Meeting where you were appointed Grand Vizier of this forum - perhaps you'd send me the Minutes, when you have a moment?

sfjohns67
09-02-2005, 14:17
It was the same Meeting where we all voted to have the cork removed from your rectum, but then recanted after you threw yourself on the floor and held your breath until your face turned purple.

Sparafucile
09-02-2005, 15:31
>> but then recanted after you threw yourself on the floor and held your breath until your face turned purple. <<

Saved Lyndie and Chas from the effort of throwing me on the floor for your "Christian" pleasure, though, eh?

sfjohns67
09-02-2005, 19:06
Yeah, quite a few folks were rather disappointed at being denied the opportunity to initiate you into the "Bugger a Heathen for Bush" club.

Hephzibah
09-02-2005, 19:29
Why does any thread that has anything to do with Christianity end up being a fight? That is so interesting to me.

rupert
10-02-2005, 09:15
Originally posted by Hephzibah
Why does any thread that has anything to do with Christianity end up being a fight? That is so interesting to me.

The problem is, this thread has nothing at all to do with Christianity

Sparafucile
10-02-2005, 17:34
Quite right, Rupert.

The Albigensian Crusade ("Kill them all - God will find his own!" - Simon de Monfort) had "nothing to do with Christianity" either, I suppose?

How about the Spanish Inquisition? Even today, few people realise it was primarily a ruse for the Christian church to arrest, torture and murder wealthy jews - and after their death, their property was automatically sequestered by law by... The Roman Catholic Church.

These things, like the invasion of Iraq and stealing its oil, have "nothing to do with Christianity". They are merely executed by Christians, in the Name Of The Lord, and happen to be phenomenally financially beneficial to the Church.

But "nothing to do with Christianity" :agree:

Eye Opener
10-02-2005, 18:31
Originally posted by Sparafucile

The Albigensian Crusade ("Kill them all - God will find his own!" - Simon de Monfort) had "nothing to do with Christianity" either, I suppose?

How about the Spanish Inquisition? Even today, few people realise it was primarily a ruse for the Christian church to arrest, torture and murder wealthy jews - and after their death, their property was automatically sequestered by law by... The Roman Catholic Church.

These things, like the invasion of Iraq and stealing its oil, have "nothing to do with Christianity". They are merely executed by Christians, in the Name Of The Lord, and happen to be phenomenally financially beneficial to the Church.

But "nothing to do with Christianity" :agree:

Don't equal Roman Catholic Church and the US Government to Christianity.

rupert
11-02-2005, 09:25
Newsflash:

Vikings invade UK, Odin accused of plotting to overthrow pagans

Roman Empire extends throughout Europe. Jupiter, Apollo and Mars all implicated as Caesar admits he did in the name of his Gods

kniga
11-02-2005, 10:17
Sparafucile,

You claim, "Kniga - you approve of this below. That is why I detest you, and refuse to bother to be in the slightest polite to you. Because I don't just reach out for the Good Book to tell me what's right and wrong. We atheists actually have to THINK ABOUT THE RESULTS OF OUR ACTIONS."

Where did this absolute lie come from? Perhaps you missed my earlier comments at various times in various threads that I was against the U.S. attacking Iraq in the first place. Why would I be for the mistreatment of prisoners? Have you gone completely mad with the foaming-at-the-mouth attacks you are making everywhere and against everyone? You show all the disturbing signs of a truly unbalanced person. You should get psychological and/or medical help for your obviously deteriorating mental state of mind before it is too late.

Sparafucile
11-02-2005, 14:37
>> Where did this absolute lie come from? <<

It isn't a lie. I detest you and refuse to be polite to you.

When your behaviour merits politeness, you will get it. So far, you've displayed no behaviour of that kind.

uninformed
11-02-2005, 15:55
Originally posted by Sparafucile
Kniga - you approve of this below. That is why I detest you, and refuse to bother to be in the slightest polite to you. Because I don't just reach out for the Good Book to tell me what's right and wrong. We atheists actually have to THINK ABOUT THE RESULTS OF OUR ACTIONS. This was crude, illegal, and plain unjustifiable. But it hardly ranks up there with mass killings nor does it represent the beliefs of Christians or others. It doesn't even begin to compare with Saddam's gassing of his own people.

You've chosen a poor example for your point.

uninformed
11-02-2005, 16:16
Here are a few incidents of genocide that can hardly be assigned to Christians:


Algeria - 5,000 in 2001 by the Isamic Armed Group (GIA)

Uganda - 1,000s killed by the Lord's Resistance Army, a non-Christian bibilically based group known for use of children as soldiers, slavery, brutal murders of Catholic priests, nuns, and residents of refugee camps.

Guatemala - 200,000 Mayans by the government

Cuba - 1959+ 75,000 "counter revolutionaries" (not quite so recent but still relevant)

Phillipines - 2004 saw 100s by anti-government Muslims

Afghanistan 1978 over 700,000 in a civil war fought by the Soviets and the Mujahadin and Taliban.

Uzbekistan - 2004 saw 100s killed by Muslims.

Tibet - 1959+ 1.6 MILLION Tibetan Buddhists killed by the Communists

Vietnam - 1954-1975 saw 1 MILLION killed as "class enemies" by the Communists.

People's Republic of China - 1949-1977. Killings of 35 MILLION by the Maoist (Communist) government.

And so on. In the last hundred years many millions more have been killed by communists than probably all of the other religions added together.

On this basis, perhaps it is more plausible to suggest that the ATHIEST COMMUNISTS represent a bigger threat to mankind than the violence spawned by Christians.

Ned Kelly
11-02-2005, 16:42
Originally posted by Sparafucile
>> Where did this absolute lie come from? <<

It isn't a lie. I detest you and refuse to be polite to you.

When your behaviour merits politeness, you will get it. So far, you've displayed no behaviour of that kind.

i think an apology is in order: in private and public conversations kniga has always steadfastly opposed the iraq war.

Halyavshik
11-02-2005, 16:53
I second that. Never once, online or off, have I heard Kniga express even the tiniest amount of support for the US invasion of Iraq.

In addition, I know Kniga to be a kind, friendly, generous, and thoughtful man open to discussion, well-travelled, and cultured. How he could be despised is somewhat beyond me.

Sparafucile
11-02-2005, 17:31
Kniga made a series of personal attacks on me, which predate my recent retaliation. I have no reasons to like this bad-tempered man, or indeed to apologise to him either. I will agree not to retaliate further to his continuous rudely-phrased provocations, but apologise? Certainly not.

Sparafucile
11-02-2005, 17:34
Sorry, Uninformed, but simply saying "someone else has done the same and worse" is not a justification for you to do whatever you like.

Next time the GAI have pulled you over, try telling them "but look, that guy in that Merc has just shot past doing at least 130km/h! He is worse than me, and you don't stop him?"

Because that is the logic you are using - only with piles of corpses as the counting-beans.

uninformed
11-02-2005, 20:37
Originally posted by Sparafucile
Sorry, Uninformed, but simply saying "someone else has done the same and worse" is not a justification for you to do whatever you like.

Next time the GAI have pulled you over, try telling them "but look, that guy in that Merc has just shot past doing at least 130km/h! He is worse than me, and you don't stop him?"

Because that is the logic you are using - only with piles of corpses as the counting-beans. Who is trying to justify the death of the Iraqis? You are trying to condemn Christians (not that I care for them, myself) and Christianity as responsible for this war and as a religion of violence. And I'm responding by saying that Athiests (or the communist ones, anyway) are even MORE violent by a factor of 100 in the last century.

It is like comparing the bite of a mosquito to the bite of an alligator. Not justification but simply my confusion at your "argument."

But then, you have not shown yourself to be particularly rational. It seems you simply like to rant.

uninformed
11-02-2005, 20:42
Originally posted by Eye Opener
Don't equal Roman Catholic Church and the US Government to Christianity. It isn't equivalent. But it is increasingly clear that the Bush administration considers itself a Christian government. It is also true that the American conservative political support for Israel comes from a religious belief. It is also true that Christian countries are more likely to be friendly to the US. And it is true that the US supports Christian evangelism overseas because of their inclination to be politically supportive of the US.

So they aren't equivalent but it is difficult to separate the actions of the current US government from its Christian beliefs.

uninformed
11-02-2005, 20:44
Originally posted by Sparafucile
Kniga made a series of personal attacks on me, which predate my recent retaliation. I have no reasons to like this bad-tempered man, or indeed to apologise to him either. I will agree not to retaliate further to his continuous rudely-phrased provocations, but apologise? Certainly not. Perhaps we can suggest a few sedatives to calm you down?? They are widely available here even without a prescription.

Crazyeelboy
15-02-2005, 19:53
Sparafucile:

Here's your chance to REALLY hate someone - I am a Christian, I am an American, I am a Republican and not only do I support the war against terror (including operations in the Iraqi theatre) I also support President Bush (even fruther, I helped people register and vote for him in this election), but this not about me.

Your comments in this and other threads reflect a tremendous amout of hate you obviously feel toward people just like myself, and probably toward a lot of other people, too. Reading your rants and attacks really make me feel for you, man. I'm not kidding and I'm not goading you - try to tone down the hate - it will burn you up.

I could go into a point by point discussion with you about my religion, about my politics and all of that, but you seem to be so blinded by hate that we won't get anywhere. You remind me of the "peaceful" protesters that physically attacked my wife for being a "baby killer" when we walked down the street after seeing the President nominated at the Republican convention in New York. There is no reasoning with hate, and there does not seem to be any reasoning with you when you get all worked up like this.

One thing that really does amaze me, though, is how many people like yourself accuse Christians of being hateful and closed minded people, but if you actually knew any Christians (people that really believe), you will find that we are not that way at all. You never see Christians writing or saying the kinds of hurtful, mean and openly hostile things you post on this forum.

Let go of the hate and you might see the issues and others much more clearly. Also, until you get rational, very few intelligent people will give your comments serious consideration.

Ghost
15-02-2005, 20:02
Let him go on hating. In the end, he'll be the only one who suffers from it (ulcers, etc). Personally, I couldn't think of a nicer person for it to happen to!

Reminds me of that Canadian1974 guy. Hell, probably is the same guy on a new login.

Christ, he's even p****d at Kniga. I've never seen anyone p****d at Kniga.

Crazyeelboy
15-02-2005, 20:11
Ghost-

He'll hate for as long as he wants, but I won't take him seriously until he gives it up. Getting p****d at Kniga is one thing, but did you see that guy in Business Forum have a go at Sadie? What's with these people?

Ghost
15-02-2005, 20:14
Chemical imbalances, perhaps.

The only other thing I can think of is that they are just so upset with where they are in the world that they lash out at everything that doesn't go exactly the way they want it.

Sparafucile
15-02-2005, 22:26
I lash-out at anyone who condones the premeditated mass-murder of civilians - or worse, who actually denies it took place. I had no quarrel with you, Ghost, but since you outed yourself as supporting Koba's views...

I will also lash-out at the unlawful abduction of foreign citizens in breach of international law, and their illegal imprisonment on Guantanamo (which would be illegal even under US Law if they were held on the mainland).

And every time these topics come up, I am going to lash at their supporters.

Because these things are actually wrong.

I have said just the same here about the illegal abduction and detention without trial of the Opposition members in Turkmenistan. I don't give a damn about the politics. I care only about the crimes.

Oh, and Ghost - I only use one log-in here. So spare us your paranoid drivelling about who I might be? Get used to the idea that everyone who hates your nation's crimes and the leader who ordered them is actually a DIFFERENT everyone, and not just one person with a lot of logins? Find that concept hard to deal with????

Ghost
15-02-2005, 22:40
Not paranoid at all. Was merely guessing.

And I honestly find it amusing that you so loathe everything about the US (and everyone on this site regardless of whether they're from the US or not). Makes me believe that we're doing something right, if we alienate people such as yourself.

Abduct more people, I say! Trample more rights! Launch more attacks! Iraq today, tomorrow...the world!

Regards.

85StoneWhiteFurball
15-02-2005, 22:51
I am sorry, Spara, but as much as I happen to enjoy reading your posts, and appreciate your intellectual level, you are going way too far. Blaming people on this site for what you perceive to be the crimes (which I don't want to get into for many reasons) of the country of their origin is just not acceptable.

You are not the only one, however. Someone came up to me in a certain bar that will remain unnamed and accused ME of invading Iraq - as in "The Americans..no, I mean you..invaded Iraq." Laughable. I have not voted in a major election in the US since 1984, am most probably unfit for military service, and the only thing American about me is my passport, which I'd like to change for tax reasons.

I am probably not the only US expat who could care less about what happens back in the old country while I am abroad (as in permanently), and I am sure that quite a number of US expats here oppose Bush's policy. As a non-voter I have no right to express my opinion on such matters, so that I can read and enjoy these threads as well as various op-ed pieces written by a variety of pundits, from Maureen Dowd to Ann Coulter, on the merits, without any real feeling or bias.

So, keep up your thought and information filled posts, but kindly don't stoop to personal attacks. You ruin your case by doing so.

alterego
16-02-2005, 07:39
Originally posted by 85StoneWhiteFurball
. . . I happen to enjoy reading your posts, and appreciate your intellectual level, .

Face it Sparafucile that is the highest level of condemnation.

Sparafucile
16-02-2005, 11:01
>> And I honestly find it amusing that you so loathe everything about the US <<

And where did I say that?

Your usual idiotic modus operandi - the second time you've deliberately misrepresented what I've said PURELY because you can't find anything wrong with what I actually HAVE said.

Sparafucile
16-02-2005, 11:22
I'm sorry, Mr Bear, but I cannot agree with you.

America HAS invaded Iraq. Koba tries to say it has not, and also that no-one has been killed during this invasion. None of this is true.

America was invaded by the United States of America. Not the Republican Party. Not the Halliburton Corporation. American tax-payers paid for the war. American soldiers served in it.

I have - on several occasions, including recently - attacked my own country's servile assistance in this war, and I have consistently condemned that from the outset, and during the campaign of misinformation prior to the war in attempts to "justify" it.

I am waiting to see the WMD, which Secretary of State Powell firmly stated "were not speculation, but fact".

I am waiting to see the evidence of collaboration with terrorist organisations cited by Rice and Rumsfeld at the time.

I am waiting for the arrest of Osama bin-Laden. The links between bin-Laden and Osama were spelt-out clearly before the war by Mr Bush himself.

I am waiting for the release of illegally-held detainees in the Guantanamo "facility", or their charge on any kind of crime.

The so-called "regime change" has been actually that. In place of the Baathists, you now have an elected Govt of pro-Shiite islamic fundamentalists, believed to be sponsored by Iran.

The fact that you were exposed to anti-American feeling in a bar illustrates my point, and disproves Koba and his boss, Ghost (if indeed they aren't the same person anyhow, Ghost? Your favourite moronic accusation...) American standing in the world has been massively prejudiced and undermined by this foolish war. The war was, in fact, declared to have been illegal by a British Court yesterday - a decision which will have huge repercussions for the last remaining active US "ally".

You are most welcome to carry on pretending that what your country has done (I believe you still carry its passport?) isn't going to affect you.

I will lend you a bucket to put over your head, if it helps in this endeavour.

Ghost
16-02-2005, 11:26
Originally posted by Sparafucile
>> And I honestly find it amusing that you so loathe everything about the US <<

And where did I say that?

Your usual idiotic modus operandi - the second time you've deliberately misrepresented what I've said PURELY because you can't find anything wrong with what I actually HAVE said.

It's obvious, my friend. And if I've misrepresented what you say, then it's no worse a misrepresentation than any you've made of a dozen or so people on this thread. Koba never said no one was killed in Iraq (for example). You're just a tool.

Happy day!

85StoneWhiteFurball
16-02-2005, 11:32
Originally posted by Sparafucile
I'm sorry, Mr Bear, but I cannot agree with you.

America HAS invaded Iraq. Koba tries to say it has not, and also that no-one has been killed during this invasion. None of this is true.

America was invaded by the United States of America. Not the Republican Party. Not the Halliburton Corporation. American tax-payers paid for the war. American soldiers served in it.


I am not a US taxpayer or a US soldier, or a US voter. I do not know how many other USAtians :) here are in the same situation as I am, but I would think it is a sizeable minority, if not a small majority. And keep in mind that many US taxpayers opposed the war.

Yes, I do carry a US passport. But I would change it tomorrow if need be, for tax purposes, and fortunately due to the circumstances of my birth I can do so. Not every American here is a nationalist. I speak many languages and am multicultural - I have no use for nationalism of any sort. People are people. I know decent folks and p**cks from everywhere. And in a democracy, people have different opinions, and not everyone supports the present government of their place of origin. In fact, I consider the worst p**cks to be citizens of a fictitious place called Dreckistan, as they do not reflect on their origin or ethnicity :).

As a businessperson, I look at citizenship from the tax angle, and realise that at some point very soon, I'll be intercoursed very badly if I don't take measures to obtain the other one that I am entitled to. To do so requires a few trips abroad which I can only undertake next winter due to other obligations.

koba65
16-02-2005, 11:42
Originally posted by 85StoneWhiteFurball

Yes, I do carry a US passport. But I would change it tomorrow if need be, for tax purposes, and fortunately due to the circumstances of my birth I can do so. Not every American here is a nationalist. I speak many languages and am multicultural - I have no use for nationalism of any sort. People are people. I know decent folks and p**cks from everywhere. And in a democracy, people have different opinions, and not everyone supports the present government of their place of origin. In fact, I consider the worst p**cks to be citizens of a fictitious place called Dreckistan, as they do not reflect on their origin or ethnicity :).


Support for one's country (not blind support) does not make one a nationalist. Dissent, likewise, does not mean someone is less patriotic. And, Mr. Bear, there is a difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Regarding the passport -you can renounce your citizenship and take up citizenship with another country (Monaco has some nice bennies). I'm sure you realize this. Since you don't pay US taxes, I'm going to assume you do not take advantages of any US taxpayer supported organizations, such as American Citizen Services at the US Embassy?

85StoneWhiteFurball
16-02-2005, 11:47
Originally posted by koba65
Support for one's country (not blind support) does not make one a nationalist. Dissent, likewise, does not mean someone is less patriotic. And, Mr. Bear, there is a difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Regarding the passport -you can renounce your citizenship and take up citizenship with another country (Monaco has some nice bennies). I'm sure you realize this. Since you don't pay US taxes, I'm going to assume you do not take advantages of any US taxpayer supported organizations, such as American Citizen Services at the US Embassy?

I am not at the tax threshold, as I do not yet pay myself the amount which would trigger a tax debt, and I have no assets in the US. I do file returns, so that I am a 100% law abiding citizen. And other than recently having pages added to my passport, I do not indeed avail myself of Citizens Services or anything else at the embassy or consular section. Tried to get info from them a couple of times, with comical results. This will probably be my last US passport, as unless the law is changed, I don't believe in paying taxes to a place where I no longer live and to which I will not return. Therefore, unless I travel a heck of a lot more than I planned to over the next 6 years before it expires, I won't need Citizens Services.

On the other hand, there is only so long that I can go without meeting and exceeding the threshold, and I don't want to cheat and play games. So, I need to get my mother's non-US citizenship.

Halyavshik
16-02-2005, 12:51
Originally posted by koba65
Support for one's country (not blind support) does not make one a nationalist. Dissent, likewise, does not mean someone is less patriotic. And, Mr. Bear, there is a difference between nationalism and patriotism.

Oh, Koba please, no more questions. Spare us the agony of having to read more of 85Stone's waffling and painful attempts of not getting caught in his fantasies and contradictions about being an emigree, etc.

Ghost
16-02-2005, 13:02
I much prefer listening to him than Sparafucile.

Goose0009
19-02-2005, 05:06
I HOPE ALL THOSE BUSH SUPPORTERS WILL COME TO THERE SENSES SOMEDAY. IRAQ WILL NEVER HAVE A DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT. IRAQIS JUST ARE NOT GOING TO FIGHT FOR THEIR COUNTRY WHEN THE U.S.A. LEAVES. IT'S FUNNY HOW FOX NEWS CLAIMS GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN IRAQ. IF 36 AMERICANS WERE KILLED ON VOTING DAY WOULD FOX NEWS CALL THAT A SUCCESS. THERE ARE SOME NEOCONS WHO WILL SUPPORT GEORGE BUSH NO MATTER HOW BAD HE F*CKS UP THE COUNTRY. AMERICANS ARE GOING TO DIE EVERYDAY IN IRAQ. THE DAY AMERICANS LEAVE IRAQ. IT WILL COLLAPSE INTO GOD ONLY KNOWS WHAT. EVERYDAY MORE MONEY IS GOING TO BE SPENT IN IRAQ. AMERICA DID GOOD THINGS IN VIETNAM. THERE WERE ELECTIONS IN VIETNAM, SCHOOLS WERE BUILT, AND MONEY WAS PUT INTO THE COUNTRY. THE END RESULT. 58,000 AMERICANS DEAD AND HOW MANY BILLIONS SPENT ON LBJ'S GREAT SOCIETY. COMMUNISM WON VIETNAM BUT WE DIDN'T HAVE TO FIGHT THEM IN AMERICA I WONDER HOW THE WAR IN IRAQ IS FIGHTING TERROR. 9-11 COMISSION COULD NOT FIND IRAQIS RESPONSIBILITY ON 9-11. DO NEOCONS ACTUALLY THINK THAT THEY CAN ACHIEVE A GOAL OF DEMOCRACY. IT'S NOT GONNA WORK EVER. I JUST HATE TO SEE AMERICANS DIE FOR BUSH'S MISTAKE. I WONDER HOW MANY AMERICANS WILL HAVE TO DIE BEFORE AMERICA WILL OPEN IT'S EYES. BY THE EARLY PART OF MARCH, 11,000 WOUNDED, 3,000 OF THEM WITH MISSING LIMBS AND 1,500 DEAD. I WILL NOT SHED A TEAR FOR SADDAM HUSSEIN, BUT WHAT IS THE FINAL COST TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. I DON'T BELIEVE IN SENDING AMERICAN BOYS 10,000 MILES AWAY TO DO A JOB ARAB BOYS SHOULD DO FOR THEMSELVES. I GUESS IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS WHEN 40,000 AMERICANS ARE WOUNDED AND 4,000 DEAD WILL BE A ENOUGH FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

Crazyeelboy
19-02-2005, 20:54
And how does this relate to Christianity?

It seems that just about every thread on this site turns into either a personal attack (or threat) on someone or some kind of anti-Bush (or anti-US) rant.

Sparafucile
19-02-2005, 23:28
>> I much prefer listening to him than Sparafucile. <<

Since when did you ever listen to me anyhow?

You just see my avatar and then type the first crap that comes into your head, and claim you are quoting me and reply?

Ghost
20-02-2005, 11:56
Originally posted by Sparafucile
>> I much prefer listening to him than Sparafucile. <<

Since when did you ever listen to me anyhow?

You just see my avatar and then type the first crap that comes into your head, and claim you are quoting me and reply?

Shouldn't throw stones in glass houses! That's what you do to all of us, we're in agreement!

yankee@moscow
20-02-2005, 12:00
This whole thread reminds me of one scripture - John 11:35!

85StoneWhiteFurball
20-02-2005, 12:18
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
This whole thread reminds me of one scripture - John 11:35!

This whole thread reminds me of the john in a highway gasoline station at 11.35!

koba65
20-02-2005, 12:24
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
This whole thread reminds me of one scripture - John 11:35!

Is that the scripture you see held up on placards at big time rasslin' matches? ;)

yankee@moscow
20-02-2005, 12:52
No, that's 3:16. John 11:35 is only 2 words. "Jesus wept."

Sparafucile
20-02-2005, 17:51
What's the biblical reference about a scratched record, anyone? Because that's what this "discussion" reminds me of most....

85StoneWhiteFurball
20-02-2005, 17:53
It is somewhere in Leviticus: "Whomsoever listeneth to a scratched record shall surely be put to sleep......."

Leslie Presley
20-02-2005, 18:13
Originally posted by Sparafucile
What's the biblical reference about a scratched record, anyone? Because that's what this "discussion" reminds me of most....

Not sure there is a quote about scratched records, but the are plenty of biblical prophesies to back up Mr Bush (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/torture.html)

Ghost
20-02-2005, 20:23
That site will probably drive Spara back into an uncontrollable rage.

Bravo!

Leslie Presley
20-02-2005, 22:06
Originally posted by Ghost
That site will probably drive Spara back into an uncontrollable rage.

Bravo!


I hope so! Also, if he accepts Christ in the next few days he can get a free playstation!

Jim434
22-02-2005, 20:49
"Guess I picked a bad day to give up sniffing glue"

koba65
24-02-2005, 19:11
Originally posted by Sparafucile
I'm sorry, Mr Bear, but I cannot agree with you.

America HAS invaded Iraq. Koba tries to say it has not, and also that no-one has been killed during this invasion. None of this is true.

America was invaded by the United States of America. Not the Republican Party. Not the Halliburton Corporation. American tax-payers paid for the war. American soldiers served in it.

I have - on several occasions, including recently - attacked my own country's servile assistance in this war, and I have consistently condemned that from the outset, and during the campaign of misinformation prior to the war in attempts to "justify" it.

I am waiting to see the WMD, which Secretary of State Powell firmly stated "were not speculation, but fact".

I am waiting to see the evidence of collaboration with terrorist organisations cited by Rice and Rumsfeld at the time.

I am waiting for the arrest of Osama bin-Laden. The links between bin-Laden and Osama were spelt-out clearly before the war by Mr Bush himself.

I am waiting for the release of illegally-held detainees in the Guantanamo "facility", or their charge on any kind of crime.

The so-called "regime change" has been actually that. In place of the Baathists, you now have an elected Govt of pro-Shiite islamic fundamentalists, believed to be sponsored by Iran.

The fact that you were exposed to anti-American feeling in a bar illustrates my point, and disproves Koba and his boss, Ghost (if indeed they aren't the same person anyhow, Ghost? Your favourite moronic accusation...) American standing in the world has been massively prejudiced and undermined by this foolish war. The war was, in fact, declared to have been illegal by a British Court yesterday - a decision which will have huge repercussions for the last remaining active US "ally".

You are most welcome to carry on pretending that what your country has done (I believe you still carry its passport?) isn't going to affect you.

I will lend you a bucket to put over your head, if it helps in this endeavour.

Oy yoi yoi - YOU misrepresent me - as usual - go re-read my posts and quote me where I said nobody has died. You have until 2400 tonight to retract or my lawyers will call you. Crocodile tears and what not. ...... Seriously, I do feel for you. For you are troubled. Go in peace Sparafucile - find happiness and feel better about yourself....

koba65
24-02-2005, 19:30
Originally posted by Leslie Presley
I hope so! Also, if he accepts Christ in the next few days he can get a free playstation!


Gee, I don't know - Satan just offered me an X-box 2.....

Sparafucile
25-02-2005, 01:09
I'm sorry not to have been serving-up fresh stuff for you recently, Koba - been rather busy.

Still, I see that you've been rooting through the archives to keep your anger burning bright - congratulations!

koba65
25-02-2005, 01:39
Originally posted by Sparafucile
I'm sorry not to have been serving-up fresh stuff for you recently, Koba - been rather busy.

Still, I see that you've been rooting through the archives to keep your anger burning bright - congratulations!

Your welcome, but even though I don't want to disappoint you - I can't conjure up "burning anger" for ya! Sorry.. You have become but a small bit of enterntainment for me now - I'm gettting a kick out of winding you up. Haven't you figured that out yet?? Have a nice evening, friend!! God bless...Tseluyu, Obnimayu... ;)

Bluebird
05-03-2005, 15:46
Originally posted by koba65
Your welcome, but even though I don't want to disappoint you - I can't conjure up "burning anger" for ya! Sorry.. You have become but a small bit of enterntainment for me now - I'm gettting a kick out of winding you up. Haven't you figured that out yet?? Have a nice evening, friend!! God bless...Tseluyu, Obnimayu... ;) I see you love each other intensely....But, what does all this have to do with the thread....??? :confused: :rolleyes:

surfsky
03-04-2005, 16:25
You know Sadam was pretty much a Hitler equivilant. Allot of innocent Germans and Japanese were killed during World War 2. But the country had to be taken out. Just the way it goes.

"that's just war" SFC Hoot, Blackhawk Down
From a person that has been in conflict.

Chubby Hubby
24-04-2005, 10:50
You know Sadam was pretty much a Hitler equivilant. Allot of innocent Germans and Japanese were killed during World War 2. But the country had to be taken out. Just the way it goes.

"that's just war" SFC Hoot, Blackhawk Down
From a person that has been in conflict.

There are plenty of those 'Hitler equivalents' that the US Supports, or at least doesn't invade. You're kidding yourself if you think that the US would be as quick to take out a dictator who didn't have some natural resource to tap. I could see the CIA going after someone like Hugo Chavez....again.... (anti-US socialist President of oil-rich Venezuela) looonng before they take out a genuine nuclear threat like Kim Jong Il or an all-around baddie like Saparmurat Niyazov. In fact, that's pretty much South America's story, isn't it? Some left-leaning leader is peacefully elected and a US-supported military faction throws them out and rules the place with an iron fist for the next several years?