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Benedikt
15-02-2010, 10:58
while yesterday, sunday, valentine is more or less known to all of us, it is not all.Well being bombarded with ads the last month and red hearts and chocolates by the ton it is hard to miss.
But in Russia this day has another important meaning. And it is not so much well known to us 'foreigners'.To make it an easier translation, it is called 'Forgiveness Day'.
Already in the morning, first your family members of course, you should give a hug and ask them to forgive you all the bad things:shame: that you have done the last year. Of course you will be forgiven but you also are expected to do the same. That includes your your mother in law and your little brother even if he is a pain in the neck.
Me being here quite a few years already, I am well acquainted with all these practices. And my Russian friends and acquaintances are STILL surprised that I am the first one to start and ask forgiveness.
Of course in the kitchens LOTS of forgiveness is needed, tempers do flare up:o, so was not just a hug but also lots of chocolates and a nice bottle of RED Crimean Champagne.

Willy
15-02-2010, 12:02
while yesterday, sunday, valentine is more or less known to all of us, it is not all.Well being bombarded with ads the last month and red hearts and chocolates by the ton it is hard to miss.
But in Russia this day has another important meaning. And it is not so much well known to us 'foreigners'.To make it an easier translation, it is called 'Forgiveness Day'.
Already in the morning, first your family members of course, you should give a hug and ask them to forgive you all the bad things:shame: that you have done the last year. Of course you will be forgiven but you also are expected to do the same. That includes your your mother in law and your little brother even if he is a pain in the neck.
Me being here quite a few years already, I am well acquainted with all these practices. And my Russian friends and acquaintances are STILL surprised that I am the first one to start and ask forgiveness.
Of course in the kitchens LOTS of forgiveness is needed, tempers do flare up:o, so was not just a hug but also lots of chocolates and a nice bottle of RED Crimean Champagne.

I thought that was in March, but I'll forgive you.

Max77
15-02-2010, 12:07
One thing that bothers me is why does one ask for forgiveness?? If one is to act in a manner of God and his Son than one should forgive rather than ask for forgiveness, well at least one shouldn't be asking common folk for forgiveness. Hey?!

OlgaT
15-02-2010, 12:17
One thing that bothers me is why does one ask for forgiveness?? If one is to act in a manner of God and his Son than one should forgive rather than ask for forgiveness, well at least one shouldn't be asking common folk for forgiveness. Hey?!
Qui pro quo. Take it easy Max. And forgive them, for they don't know what they are doing. ;)

nbogaard
15-02-2010, 13:16
Not being a very religious person, I have a couple of related questions which indicate how ill-informed I am on such matters. Is the Day of Forgiveness always 14 February or is it related to it being the last day before the commencement of Lent? 2nd question: Does Lent always start on the 15th of February?

farsideofthelune
15-02-2010, 14:30
What bothers me that such an abstract construct as 'forgiveness' is advertised as an absolute well-defined faculty of the humankind. I mean, what, get down on your knees, say holy father twenty times, and you've forgiven? Hell, my mind doesn't function that way. And there's always some holier-than-thou scumbag who doesn't know his d#ck or her c#nt from hell preaching some bs.

nbogaard
15-02-2010, 14:39
What bothers me that such an abstract construct as 'forgiveness' is advertised as an absolute well-defined faculty of the humankind. I mean, what, get down on your knees, say holy father twenty times, and you've forgiven? Hell, my mind doesn't function that way. And there's always some holier-than-thou scumbag who doesn't know his d#ck or her c#nt from hell preaching some bs.

You have stated some of the reasons why I say of myself that I am not religious. I believe in God but I have to believe that if God cares about anything, it is probably who I am and how I live and not whether I go to confession and receive absolution.

farsideofthelune
15-02-2010, 15:08
Religion is nothing but an instrument for creating specific social conditions such as stability or consent among a group. From the psychological point of view, an individual may adopt a belief, namely convince himself that there is a higher entity, simply to make his life easier, for instance, to integrate in a community. In what way believing in a god, or some place unseen like heaven or hell for an adult is different from a child's creating an imaginary friend or world? Kids do it all time.

Max77
15-02-2010, 15:14
nevermind!

farsideofthelune
15-02-2010, 15:17
Oh, I'd like to, but there isn't much action going on there.

OlgaT
15-02-2010, 15:17
What bothers me that such an abstract construct as 'forgiveness' is advertised as an absolute well-defined faculty of the humankind. I mean, what, get down on your knees, say holy father twenty times, and you've forgiven?
You are absolutely right that forgiveness is a faculty of the humankind. Yes, it is human, all too human - an invention of the human mind and has nothing to do with god. If god exists, it has already forgiven you, and me, and that holier-than-thou... All people (in this case Ortodox Christians) want from you is that you learn to forgive and ask for forgiveness. Not god, but people.


I believe in God but I have to believe that if God cares about anything, it is probably who I am and how I live and not whether I go to confession and receive absolution.
If god cares about you, it cares whether you go to confession and receive absolution - since if you don't, you will not be in peace, and god doesn't want it since it cares about you and peace of your mind.

This is scholasticism as it is. :bong:

farsideofthelune
15-02-2010, 15:38
You are absolutely right that forgiveness is a faculty of the humankind. Yes, it is human, all too human - an invention of the human mind and has nothing to do with god.

Human, yes. Not universally human, though.





If god cares about you, it cares whether you go to confession and receive absolution - since if you don't, you will not be in peace, and god doesn't want it since it cares about you and peace of your mind.

This is scholasticism as it is. :bong:

There was a tribe once, that wrote a couple of books compiling all the garden variety of beliefs that existed with other tribes long before this very tribe's time. They were all too eager and stuffed their religion with everything but a snork's tail. They took their time and are still doing it.

Then there was a group of people within this tribe who came up with something new. They took a few generally simple ideas from their tribe's religion and succeeded in proselytizing because their instructions for new converts were very simple.

And now people fool themselves in that doing a simple ritual grants them (a) magical gift(s).

Swordfish90293
15-02-2010, 15:55
One thing that bothers me is why does one ask for forgiveness?? If one is to act in a manner of God and his Son than one should forgive rather than ask for forgiveness, well at least one shouldn't be asking common folk for forgiveness. Hey?!

The answer to this question is quite apparent (forgive my arrogance). Asking forgivness is the inverse of forgiving and in itself acts as a humbling agent towards ones self and to others. Asking is recognition of one's faults, an act of self realization, if you will. One can be forgiven something, but not realize their fault. Asking fir forgiveness is admission of fault and assumption of responsibility for one's actions.

Kartoshka
15-02-2010, 20:48
Not being a very religious person, I have a couple of related questions which indicate how ill-informed I am on such matters. Is the Day of Forgiveness always 14 February or is it related to it being the last day before the commencement of Lent? 2nd question: Does Lent always start on the 15th of February?

No-one's answered these questions yet...
1) I am not sure about the Day of Forgiveness, I know for sure that it isn't always on 14th February and I think it is always on a Sunday. Can someone confirm?
2) Lent begins 40 days before Easter, and as Easter is a lunar festival, the date varies from year to year. The clever among you will comment that it is not 40 days from today until Easter, but I'm not sure how it works in the Orthodox church and if Lent has officially started yet or not. In the Western Christian church Lent will begin this year on Wednesday 17th. This year is the first for many years when the Orthodox and Western Christian Easters fall on the same date, so theoretically Orthodox Lent should start on Wednesday too, but I'm not sure if it does or not. Anyone?

objective
15-02-2010, 21:33
No-one's answered these questions yet...
1) I am not sure about the Day of Forgiveness, I know for sure that it isn't always on 14th February and I think it is always on a Sunday. Can someone confirm?
2) Lent begins 40 days before Easter, and as Easter is a lunar festival, the date varies from year to year. The clever among you will comment that it is not 40 days from today until Easter, but I'm not sure how it works in the Orthodox church and if Lent has officially started yet or not. In the Western Christian church Lent will begin this year on Wednesday 17th. This year is the first for many years when the Orthodox and Western Christian Easters fall on the same date, so theoretically Orthodox Lent should start on Wednesday too, but I'm not sure if it does or not. Anyone?

My calendar calls this Wednesday "Ash Wednesday". I am not sure of the significance there.

cchastje
15-02-2010, 21:49
"Western" Christians start lent on Ash Wednesday, as this holyday is not recognized in most "Eastern" churches, Lent begins on "Clean Monday."
The 40 days of Lent do not count Sundays.

Did Easter not fall on the same day in both camps last year, or was it a week apart? Regardless, the story behind that lies in the fact that the "western" churches updated the lunal calendar on which the date is set long ago, but the Eastern continue to use that one draw up closer to the dawn of Christianity.

FlakeySnowballer
15-02-2010, 23:43
Well. All this is rather strange at least. I think it is better not doing the bad steps.

Benedikt
16-02-2010, 09:20
My calendar calls this Wednesday "Ash Wednesday". I am not sure of the significance there.Ash Wednesday - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Crossofashes.jpg" class="image" title="Ash Wednesday"><img alt="Ash Wednesday" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Crossofashes.jpg/225px-Crossofashes.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/3d/Crossofashes.jpg/225px-Crossofashes.jpg
read up here,wiki can explain better then i can. last time i got the cross on the forehead was, when i was a kid and going to our village church was a MUST for all these occasions,festivals and of course every sunday at 10 in the morning.

nbogaard
16-02-2010, 10:01
Okay, I went ahead and googled it:

Roman Catholic calendar:

Lent begins on Ash Wednesday. Lent begins 46 days before Easter Sunday and includes 40 days of fasting. It is 46 days before Easter but only includes 40 days of fasting because there is no fasting on Sundays for six weeks plus the four days from Wednesday six weeks later until Easter Sunday. The date for Easter can vary between March 22 and April 25 because Easter is always celebrated on the Sunday immediately following the Paschal full moon date of the year.

B/T/W the Paschal full moon has nothing to do with the actual full moon. It is based upon historical tables. If that isn't confusing enough, the Eastern Orthodox Churches, including the Russian Orthodox Church, use a different calendar to calculate the Paschal full moon and that is why Orthodox Easter (and therefore Lent) is not on the same date as Roman Catholic Easter.

I suppose the chuches must employ someone full time to keep track of this!!!

Moskauerin
16-02-2010, 17:35
Russian Orthodox Christians observe the Lent for 7 weeks (40 days + the last week before Easter which is devoted to the Passions of God).

shurale
16-02-2010, 19:11
I shoot first and forgive later :evil:

Kartoshka
16-02-2010, 21:49
Did Easter not fall on the same day in both camps last year, or was it a week apart?

No, it was a week apart. Western Christians first, then Orthodox.

cchastje
17-02-2010, 02:23
Russian Orthodox Christians observe the Lent for 7 weeks (40 days + the last week before Easter which is devoted to the Passions of God).

I don't think that it's just Russians. I am Serbian Orthodox but usually go to a Greek church (Serbian is too far away), and we're all on the same "easter" schedule. Lent/post started Monday and will end Saturday before Easter, no days off. (Still a long way to go to yogurt and kefir...)

Moskauerin
18-02-2010, 13:02
I don't think that it's just Russians. I am Serbian Orthodox but usually go to a Greek church (Serbian is too far away), and we're all on the same "easter" schedule. Lent/post started Monday and will end Saturday before Easter, no days off. (Still a long way to go to yogurt and kefir...)

Of course not only. I mean all Orthodox Christians, including Russian.