PDA

View Full Version : I wonder, why? :-)



Anastasia Malysheva
27-01-2010, 10:16
hello! I know some foreigners who have been living there for several years and they still don't speak Russian. Is it so difficult language? once I read that the person found English a very difficult language as his first language that he had learned was Japanese!!!!)

Anton S.
27-01-2010, 10:34
Russian is definitely a very difficult language to learn. Just imagine what a task it is for an Englishman or a Frenchman to learn all the six noun cases with all the various endings, their variations and numerous exceptions. And it is only one example of Russian grammar difficulties!

MissAnnElk
27-01-2010, 10:49
I dropped my lessons when I started getting "the pronunciation changes based on which syllable gets the stress . . . oh, and there's no rule for that . . . you just have to know."

Buh-bye!

Honestly, I got farther in Chinese. And they don't even have a freaking alphabet.

J.D.
27-01-2010, 10:56
Actually there is a rule, you just had an ignorant teacher. The stress is much more important in Russian than it is in English. Ask a Russian to say, in Russian, 'to piss' and 'to read'. Then ask them to say, in English, 'Mexico'. This will reveal two rules for you.

annasophia
27-01-2010, 12:03
I don't know about the word Mexico.....

But we always love to get English speaking Russians to say the word 'squirrel'. So freaking funny.

Say it again, say it again! S-q-u-i-r-r-e-l :Loco:

tukiva
27-01-2010, 12:49
I don't know about the word Mexico.....

But we always love to get English speaking Russians to say the word 'squirrel'. So freaking funny.

Say it again, say it again! S-q-u-i-r-r-e-l :Loco:

i always say that if you want to take revenge ,ask an expat to say simple russian word " трюфель" ..... So freaking funny, say it again, say it again!!!:10806::jester:

J.D.
27-01-2010, 12:55
Russians automatically make an unstressed 'O' into the sound 'uh' so they will say Mexi-cuh. They find it very unnatural to make a soft 'O'.

annasophia
27-01-2010, 12:56
Tru-fel? That's not funny.

WandaFish
27-01-2010, 13:23
i always say that if you want to take revenge ,ask an expat to say simple russian word " трюфель" ..... So freaking funny, say it again, say it again!!!:10806::jester:

....and of course, трюфель is an authentic russian word. :10220:


Actually, I find it pretty stupid how some people are being intolerant to pronunciation or stylistic errors made by non-native speakers when they merely try to communicate...

but

on the other hand they are being pretty tolerant towards those, whose knowledge of a respective foreign language should be of a high level due to their profession or position.

IGIT
27-01-2010, 13:45
I think anyone should be able to learn any language if you live in that country after 2-3 years. Me thinks it just comes naturally, no?

MissAnnElk
27-01-2010, 14:35
I think anyone should be able to learn any language if you live in that country after 2-3 years. Me thinks it just comes naturally, no?


IF, and this is a big IF, you want to assimilate.

That is the key. Not a head for music or numbers or anything else. It's the wish to assimilate.

J.D.
27-01-2010, 14:39
Very solid evidence in a Kangaroo Court proving that one did not want to assimilate.

tukiva
27-01-2010, 15:09
....and of course, трюфель is an authentic russian word. :10220:

ha ha, you got it:)



Actually, I find it pretty stupid how some people are being intolerant to pronunciation or stylistic errors made by non-native speakers when they merely try to communicate... .

i agree, i couldn't start speaking english for long time coz i was really scared of how i did sound. Now it s ok, no inferiority complexes

Those who do not speak language of the country they live in- only numb and laziest do not speak english nowadays, so it is possible to live in some country and not speak it's language. As for me- i would try to learn if i had a chance to stay somethere for long time.

robertmf
27-01-2010, 15:48
i always say that if you want to take revenge ,ask an expat to say simple russian word " трюфель" ..... So freaking funny, say it again, say it again!!!:10806::jester:

:evilgrin:

She sells sea shells by the sea shore. :rofl:

If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers, how many peppers did Peter Piper pick :question:

If a woodchuck could chuck wood, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck ? :eek:


(a 'peck' is an olde English measure of dry volume)
(woodchuck == groundhog rodent; Feb 2nd is Groundhog Day (http://www.groundhog.org) Day)

You can also give Punxatawney Phil a try :focus:

:10518:

Я могу сказать "трюфель" :drink: The most difficult part is finding the 'ю' on the keyboard :-P Pronounce deep in the chest, rather than the more American/English of higher up in the throat. I should see my piano teacher friend (mail-order bride from Volgograd) later today and I'll ask her, too although Russian women speaking Russian usually hurts :7525: my ears (shrill).

MickeyTong
27-01-2010, 16:05
The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick.

Matt24
27-01-2010, 16:21
The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick.

I find it almost impossible to pronounce 'Thierry Henry' - there's something about the vowel and consonant combination that completely befuddles my Irish tongue, it comes out sounding a bit like " you're scum and you always will be"

Does this inability to cope with the romantic languages explain my appalling progress in Russian? Or should I go back on the pills?


Matt

xSnoofovich
27-01-2010, 17:03
Many expats just don't care about speaking in Russian....

robertmf
27-01-2010, 17:05
I find it almost impossible to pronounce 'Thierry Henry' - there's something about the vowel and consonant combination that completely befuddles my Irish tongue, it comes out sounding a bit like " you're scum and you always will be"

Does this inability to cope with the romantic languages explain my appalling progress in Russian? Or should I go back on the pills?

Matt

Stick to Celtic :9456:
Celtic Language Resources (http://www.candledark.net/silver/celtlang.html)

robertmf
27-01-2010, 17:10
Many expats just don't care about speaking in Russian....

IMhO you're wrong with this assumption. Facts :question: I do think there is a balance between keeping one's own cultural norms and 'going native'. At any rate, I would avoid those who "just don't care". :rolleyes:

mikegulf
27-01-2010, 19:27
I am a native English speaker. Learning German in my 20's wasn't bad. Relearning it after a long break in using it was a little tough. My progress in Russian sucks!!! Maybe it's the fact that I am older or maybe because my teacher is also my wife! Some research has shown that even tho you can teach an old dog new tricks it does take him longer to learn! Part of the problem, as earlier mentioned, is that there are so many people so quick to criticize if you say something wrong or pronounce it wrong. This applies to any language and although the correction is probably meant well it often comes off as being rather rude or too picky etc...

tvadim133
27-01-2010, 19:53
My progress in Russian sucks!!! Maybe it's the fact that I am older or maybe because my teacher is also my wife! Some research has shown that even tho you can teach an old dog new tricks it does take him longer to learn!.

Do not worry, it does not depend upon the age (though memory does not become better).

You have got benifits, due you can compare the grammar rules and find a lot of common in the structure of russian and other languages.

Actually, a teacher-wife, a teahcer-mother, a teacher-"friend" and so on, do not work (it is connected with psycological reasons), to my mind.

robertmf
27-01-2010, 20:54
[
Я могу сказать "трюфель" :drink: The most difficult part is finding the 'ю' on the keyboard :-P Pronounce deep in the chest, rather than the more American/English of higher up in the throat. I should see my piano teacher friend (mail-order bride from Volgograd) later today and I'll ask her, too although Russian women speaking Russian usually hurts :7525: my ears (shrill).



My pronounciation of tryufel' was okay except for needing work on the 'ye' :-P In other little words & phrases I accumulate for asking to a native speaker, she tore into my vowels ... but she stopped that when I wanted her to say, "The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick". :devilish:

franzewich
27-01-2010, 21:55
I think anyone should be able to learn any language if you live in that country after 2-3 years. Me thinks it just comes naturally, no?

It would be true if we expats were fully integrated into the Russian business world - but, believe me, most of us aren't! For several reasons:

1) If you have a working contract for 9 to 12 months (common in construction business), you do not bother picking up a language as difficult as Russian - and pay a lot of money for a good school or a private teacher. What for, if you may be working in Brazil or Abu Dhabi soon? And often these short-term contracts are extended, and extended, and ... at the end we are here much longer than we had originally intended and still don't speak Russian well.

2) After gruesome 60 to 70 hour work weeks, you're simply too tired to sit down and study verbs and complicated cases.

3) If you work at the city limits it is impossible to get to language classes which, stupidly, are mostly held downtown during the day or at early evening.

4) Most of us are in an advanced age; you don't learn Russian as easily if you are beyond 40 or 50 years of age as compared to a 16 year old.

5) Russians (Moscovites?) talk very fast - and do not care much to assist foreigners. Somehow they simply cannot slow down for some reason. To me it is like being machine-gunned down. So I quit talking - why bother?

6) Russian is too difficult to be studied by oneself - you need a teacher or a class. But we are on business trips quite often. It is easy to loose touch with the cl**** and then you give up of frustration - and loose the money you've paid.

7) The fast moving business world does not appreciate mistakes because of misunderstandings. Rather speak English with Russian colleagues, who are mostly very proficient in it, than taking risks.

8) Most of us did not come to Moscow because we had a particular interest in Russia, unlike language students, but because of pure job-related reasons. Many of us simply lack the special talent for languages - and sadly also the interest. And, again, Russian is too complex to be learned "as you go". It can get very frustrating and I know lots of guys who have simply given up!

9) Where to practise after work? Most colleagues commute more than an hour and want to go home. Music in most pubs and restaurants is way too loud, besides it gets rather expensive quickly to learn there.

10) etc. ...

tvadim133
27-01-2010, 22:46
That is sad but true! That's more ther are languages which unite: Esperanto and English.

tukiva
28-01-2010, 12:14
That is sad but true! That's more ther are languages which unite: Esperanto and English.

does still anyone know esperanto? :confused1: English unites nations!:rasta:

MissAnnElk
28-01-2010, 15:19
although Russian women speaking Russian usually hurts :7525: my ears (shrill).

[/COLOR]

Oh, I think women speaking Russian is sexy. It's so musical.

MissAnnElk
28-01-2010, 15:23
Part of the problem, as earlier mentioned, is that there are so many people so quick to criticize if you say something wrong or pronounce it wrong. This applies to any language and although the correction is probably meant well it often comes off as being rather rude or too picky etc...

Oh, how vividly I remember being corrected in other languages. I will never forget the correct tone for "money" in Mandarin. But the good side is I will never forget the correct tone for "money" in Mandarin.

:rant:

It is so embarrassing to make mistakes (makes me mad). But how will you learn if no one tells you?

mikegulf
28-01-2010, 16:12
Oh I agree, corrective critisism is always helpful and appreciated. My issue is with people that are rude and make you feel like a fool because you didn't pronounce something the right way. Some people tend to make you feel small because you screw up rather than encourage you to keep trying. Those are the people I have a problem with.

I learned to speak German from native German speakers who were friends and family. I always found it difficult to be understood by Germans outside Bavaria. I could understand them but when I would speak they would look at me as if I were some crazy American speaking some strange version of German with a southern American accent. I returned to Germany after 15 years and finally found out why. My friends had taught me the local dialect! It is specifically spoken in only a small area of Germany called Franken which is in northern Bayern. You can imagine the laugh they all got out of it! So I speak some localized bastardization of German called Frankische Bayersiche Duetsch. But it's all good, they are the only ones I speak to in German anyway!! We all still laugh over it!

Bogatyr
28-01-2010, 16:41
Oh, I think women speaking Russian is sexy. It's so musical.

It depends entirely on the speaker, which is probably true in any language. Russian women in their 40's and older with a University education speak very musically and beautifully to my ears. "The kids these days" though speak with a very distinctive, rough, "derevnaya" twang that even my expat ears can very easily distinguish from the "intelligentsiya" speech.

One difference with speaking Russian versus English is that Russian is pronounced mostly at the front of the mouth while English has a lot more sounds in the back and around the throat. Most Russian (women at least ) move their lips a lot more when they speak compared to the average english speaker, especially to make the vowel sounds.

Most Russian men to me sound like they're talking with a mouth full of marbles, and they hardly move their lips at all, making it much harder for me to understand.

The funny thing to me is that the average Russian speaker talks very quickly compared to the average English speaker. Other than perhaps Russians have more to say, I think the difference is due to the fact that the average Russian word has more syllables than the average English word, and to in order to convey the same meaning in the same amount of time, the Russian speaker must pronounce the syllables faster :)

My favorite phrase to pose to Russians is "San Francisco".
It always comes out as "Sahn FrrrahnSEESkah".

Viola
28-01-2010, 16:54
The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick.

She sells seashells on the seashore
The shells she sells are seashells, I'm sure
So if she sells seashells on the seashore
Then I'm sure she sells seashore shells

mikegulf
28-01-2010, 17:25
I agree That Russians speak wayyyyyyy faster than Americans. I am always asking my wife to slow down. She carries over the Russian speed factor into both her English and German. Sometimes it sounds like she is just saying one long word! I often tease her that when she and her family or friends are speaking in Russian it sounds like machinguns firing on continuous burst! She then gets mad or irritated at me...but she is so cute when she gets mad that it all seems worth it!! LOL

NYkr
22-01-2011, 19:43
Does anyone know where I can find either written or recorded voices that have effective practices/drills for the 6 Russian Noun Cases?

Or

Does anyone know any Russian teacher, Native Speaker or non-Native Speaker who knows how to drill Native English Speakers to learn by actual spoken practice Russian Noun Cases?

I can teach any Russian who is an Intermediate English Speaker how to better "handle" English Phrasal Verbs better than Native English Speakers in 4-6 months so I am positive that a similar person exists for Russian Noun Cases.

robertmf
22-01-2011, 22:04
She sells seashells on the seashore
The shells she sells are seashells, I'm sure
So if she sells seashells on the seashore
Then I'm sure she sells seashore shells

If Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers,
How many pickled peppers did Peter Piper pick ?

If a groundhog could chuck wood, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck ?

:fudd: Anybody like to start drinking early, check out Feb 2nd Groundhog Day celebrations
http://www.groundhog.org/

Then pronounce quickly, Punxsutawney Phil.

Also, the 610wip.com radio station Wing Bowl is on ... for another excuse to get loaded at 6 in the morning hahaahhahahaa tickets $10
http://wingbowl.cbslocal.com/

FatAndy
28-01-2011, 16:48
NYkr, Robert,
You've revived 1-yr-old thread! :D

KennyK
28-01-2011, 17:09
I'm not the pheasant plucker
I'm not the pheasant plucker's son
But I'll pluck your pheasant until the pheasant plucker's son comes.

robertmf
18-02-2011, 19:49
NYkr, Robert,
You've revived 1-yr-old thread! :D

Do you happen to know what a "Bronx cheer" is :question:

:tgif: :Loco:

Kraven Morehead
18-02-2011, 20:00
Russians- actually laugh at their name.
Because they always say "davi davi" Lets go lets go.
They never seen to have patience. On Aeroflot flight, I watched twice where a Russian pushed the door to lavatory to find another man sitting on the toilet.
They always speak fast.
So they are always Rushing

robertmf
18-02-2011, 20:08
Russians- actually laugh at their name.
Because they always say "davi davi" Let's go let's go.
They never seen to have patience. On Aeroflot flight, I watched twice where a Russian pushed the door to lavatory to find another man sitting on the toilet.
They always speak fast.
So they are always Rushing

"davi davi" ? I thought "poshli" was "let's go" (Spanish: :fudd: vamos) :question:


("Let's is a contraction for "let us" and so needs that wee apostrophe)

:10220: :tgif:

chartreuse
19-02-2011, 05:10
Russian is faster than English? NO WAY! Really. English (especially American English) is so fast for us Russians to understand that even if you went through a full six-year of studying it at college, you would never ever be able to keep up with even the very slow newsman on CNN or ABC (not to mention Rush Limbaugh or Howard Stern).

I learned American English the way a child does: I came to New York and simply dove into the culture. Same with Russian. If you really want to learn the language, don't hire tutors -- get some Russian friends and get some real Russian job. Why would you want to learn Russian? No reason, but Russia is not one of those little countries with no nothing, so you never know... :)

Inola
19-02-2011, 11:49
I also think that if you really want to learn a language of a country you happen to live in, you will manage this...

When I first came to France and had to communicate with people in the streets, I understood absolutely nothing despite my diploma of translator (!)- they were talking too fast and used words and expressions I have never heard in my life (it's not the vocabulary you see in books by Guy de Maupassant and in manuals)...

After 4 years I spent in France I can communicate freely... The French wouldn't even identify me as a foreigner until they noticed a slight accent or until I made a mistake (an immediate give away).. Last summer in Kazantip was funny to hear a French guy tell his GF: "Come here! She is from France too!" after a 20-minutes conversation with me. You should have seen their faces when I told them I was Russian:D

French is not as difficult as Russian, and I already knew my grammar when I arrived there, and I happen to be gifted when it comes to languages, but still it was and it is a constant work (even now I try never to miss an opportunity to practice my French, otherwise I'll loose it very soon).

To learn a language there are 3 major rules:
1) never be afraid (let alone ashamed) of doing mistakes (if you do not dare to speak you'll never learn!)
2) don't feel stupid/get irritated and never show any negative reaction when people correct you: never get offended even if they mock you, - laugh at your mistakes with them and memorize, and never show your frustration: if people see they disappoint you they'll stop correcting you; but always show gratitude - because they could have not bothered at all, which is more harm for your language study;
3) don't be shy - ask questions especially if you are among friends (ask a joke you didn't get to be explained to you, ask the meaning of a new word you have just heard - you'll see they'll be glad to be helpful).

The Russian language is very difficult, and studying it is a true challenge... I admire you guys!
If anyone needs practice (a friendly chat in basic Russian) - just give me a sign (I'm not advertising any payable services here)... I'm sure a lot of my compatriots present on the forum will be glad to join in.:beerbros:

PS This is quite a long post I wrote... You are welcome to correct my mistakes (there should be plenty of them):)

kian
19-02-2011, 19:43
it's not so difficult to read, as it is quite similar to the English alphabet. Pronunciation is a different story though.

Swordfish90293
19-02-2011, 21:52
I'm not the pheasant plucker
I'm not the pheasant plucker's son
But I'll pluck your pheasant until the pheasant plucker's son comes.

Is this similar to choking your chicken?

TolkoRaz
19-02-2011, 22:03
hello! I know some foreigners who have been living there for several years and they still don't speak Russian. Is it so difficult language? once I read that the person found English a very difficult language as his first language that he had learned was Japanese!!!!)

Why should we learn to speak Russian when you all put us to shame by speaking such good English! ;)

Anyhow, Russian ladies speaking English with a heavy Slavic accent is very s*xy! :)