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tvadim133
12-12-2009, 16:05
I would like to offer to start a thread about the history of Moscow.

The reason for that is following:

may be for new people who come to live to Moscow (no matter, from another country of another city, they have arrived), it may be important to know not only the cost of living, the places where to go to, how to solve problems with bureaucracy and GAI (though it is very important amd usefull as well), but

To understand the city, people here and to feel the place where you live,to feel the part of the city and not feel just expat and stranger here, may be, it is good if we can share the stories, legends about that or this area of Moscow?
I do not mean the history of Kremlin, or when Moscow was founded,,, but the history told by "moscovites" (no matter how long they live in Moscow).

What do you think about the idea? Let's start?

MickeyTong
12-12-2009, 16:53
An excellent idea, Vadim. :thumbsup:

Moskauerin
12-12-2009, 18:46
I support the idea! For Russian-speaking members of the forum here is link to an interesting website , (http://www.moskva.kotoroy.net). It is dedicated to the protection of old architectural heritage of the city, its history, etc. There are many interesting photos there. My favourites are old wooden houses preserved in the city.

Vadim, what shall we start with? There are so many topics. Shall we focus on the city center (like e.g. Kitay Gorod), the Garden ring, or the suburbs. I could tell smth about the district where I am living, but will it be interesting? Because it's almost on the outskirts, a sleeping district but there is definitely smth interesting to tell about any place in Moscow.

OK, anyway, you have suggested, so may be you should have the first word. :)

tvadim133
12-12-2009, 18:58
OK, may be we will start with Chistiye Prudy (Clean (Pure) Pounds) area (of the famous area of expats, by the way).

That area is known from the15 century where there were forests in which tsars (kings) were hunting (30 minutes of walking from Kremlin (!!!).

Pounds were existed for centuries and were called “pogannyie” (that is “unclean”):

1. the first explanation: there were some sacral places of pagans and so the name of “pogannye” came from pagans (Latin word).

2. The second is that next to the pounds there was Myasnitskay sloboda and then street

(that is the area for living and working of artisans (the old Russian name of the area of this kind is sloboda) and streets where butchers had their houses and “productions”.

( By the way the name of Myasnitskaya exisit for more then 400 years in Moscow).

These Butchers delivered waste to the pounds and dropped them there

Why did they become clean then (Chistye)?

In the beginning of the 18 century, one of the friends, assistant of Peter the 1st, Alexander Menshikov decided to buy an ancient country estate next to Chustye Pound, but he did not want to live next to dirty and smelling place and ordered to clean it and not to pollute them ever.

Until the beginning of the 19 century, the pounds were the area where rich people (aristocratic families (the side from the pounds and Kremlin), merchants and state men (side between the pounds and Sadovoye Koltso) had their own country estates.*

*Moscow consisted of them (that is a big central house ( or a palace) with household buildings and a park (or big garden).

That’s why sometimes Moscow still is called a big village :thumbdwn: (it had come from the 19 century but afterward the name BIG VILLAGE got a new reason), cause of country estates with their kitchen-gardens, gardens, not high main buildings, fences and animals (cows and so on) in these country estates (farms).

Why are Chistye pounds liked by Moscovites (and not only):

The area have not been suffered much by Soviet buildings, wish of crazy soviet architects to destroy Moscow historical places, to build high houses with huge amount of flats for working class or to build Stalin palaces and so on.

So you can see “the end of 19 and beginning of the 20 century Moscow”.
+ Chistiye Pounds became boulevard in 1820 so it was very comfortable and well living for wealthy people (still?).

By the way the area is liked by expats from French speaking countries, first of all, due there is a special school for their children here.
So many French expats prefer the area.

who can add and help? :11157:

tvadim133
12-12-2009, 19:13
In general, it is a very good place but:

I was told by grand aunt that on the Chistye pounds there lived a very famous actress (in the end of 19 century), who played the parts of main tragedies in Maly theatre.

She had committed suicide unfortunately.

People could (can?) see her walking in the night sometimes next to the Pounds (a white woman in costumes of the 19 century).

Besides (I read) that the cross between Pokrovka street and Chistye Pounds boulevard is a ruin place (there were a lot of case of heart attacks there, for example, mentioned in police and medical reports).

Moskauerin
12-12-2009, 19:21
:applause: Great, Vadim! Sounds quite informative.

Cannot add much more about the history of this place. But it is really one of the most beautiful in Moscow. I can add that it it one of the favourite places where young people like to hang out, especially in good weather in summer. There are always several steet bands playing some nice music there. And next to the metro station there used to be a gathering point of huge crowds of youngsters dressed in a specific "gothic" style. May it still is.

Ah, I almost forgot: Chistoprudniy boulevard is circled by tram lines, and there is a funny tram running along them decorated like a restaurant or a bistro (never tried to enter it however). And of course this area is also famous thanks to the theater Sovremennik. It has a beautiful building, and among its actors is the well known and talented Chulpan Khamatova.

Dave78
12-12-2009, 19:50
Just keep your eyes peeled for spilled cooking oil near the tram tracks at Chistiy Prudy. You really don't want to slip and fall under an oncoming tram. And you'd be surprised how often it happens and to whom...

tvadim133
12-12-2009, 20:11
Just keep your eyes peeled for spilled cooking oil near the tram tracks at Chistiy Prudy. You really don't want to slip and fall under an oncoming tram. And you'd be surprised how often it happens and to whom...

Oh, that's famous, but there is a small comment: it "happened" at the Patriarshy Pounds, but tram with "A" letter is used next to the Chisty Pounds nowdue there are steel trams' ways there. + "A" trams' route was very long indeed.

tvadim133
12-12-2009, 21:39
BTW, you can ask about the place (area in Moscow) where you live, and we will try to tell something about it to you!

Bels
12-12-2009, 21:50
I understand all you say Vadim. Except what do you mean by your constant mention of pounds, I have my own understanding of pounds. But I have a strange feeling that tou don't have the the same maeaning as I have. What do you mean spicifically in what you think pound means? I for me have pound in British and American pound in wieght, and also the British currency of pounds. But I have a strange feeling you mean something different to that.

tvadim133
12-12-2009, 21:55
I understand all you say Vadim. Except what do you mean by your constant mention of pounds, I have my own understanding of pounds. But I have a strange feeling that tou don't have the the same maeaning as I have. What do you mean spicifically in what you think pound means? I for me have pound in British and American pound in wieght, and also the British currency of pounds. But I have a strange feeling you mean something different to that.

Sure, ponds instead of pounds, thanks you have mentioned it and actually I do not know and understand why I have done the mistake.

Bels
12-12-2009, 21:58
So pond is a sall lake. So where do we go from there?

MickeyTong
12-12-2009, 22:02
I understand all you say Vadim. Except what do you mean by your constant mention of pounds, I have my own understanding of pounds. But I have a strange feeling that tou don't have the the same maeaning as I have. What do you mean spicifically in what you think pound means? I for me have pound in British and American pound in wieght, and also the British currency of pounds. But I have a strange feeling you mean something different to that.

Is it really so difficult to understand that Vadim means ponds?

It was easy for me to understand what you mean by maeaning, spicifically and wieght, and even the tortured tautological redundancy of I for me have pound in British and American pound in wieght.

Bels
12-12-2009, 22:07
Is it really so difficult to understand that Vadim means ponds?

It was easy for me to understand what you mean by maeaning, spicifically and wieght, and even the tortured tautological redundancy of I for me have pound in British and American pound in wieght.

Don't be so serious Mickey Tong, as I have never known you to be serious anyway. I am playing with words. Yes I could see that pounds were not meant. I was toying. And yes I did understand.

I was being miscievous as usual.

tvadim133
12-12-2009, 22:10
Neverhelles, thanks!

For me it is interesting why I have done the mistake:

it is not a misprint (to my mind), may be it is connected with my internal speech mechanisms, but I am sure, I pronounce these two words differently as well.

So, I will try to be attentive.....

MickeyTong
15-12-2009, 23:55
Don't be so serious Mickey Tong, as I have never known you to be serious anyway. I am playing with words. Yes I could see that pounds were not meant. I was toying. And yes I did understand.

I was being miscievous as usual.

You miscievous divel....

GaNozri
16-12-2009, 00:01
I am osla a liltte bit dilsexic.

MickeyTong
16-12-2009, 00:43
I am osla a liltte bit dilsexic.

You're just a chekey bstarda.

stephan rent
29-12-2009, 00:41
OK, may be we will start with Chistiye Prudy (Clean (Pure) Pounds) area (of the famous area of expats, by the way).

That area is known from the15 century where there were forests in which tsars (kings) were hunting (30 minutes of walking from Kremlin (!!!).

Pounds were existed for centuries and were called pogannyie (that is unclean):

1. the first explanation: there were some sacral places of pagans and so the name of pogannye came from pagans (Latin word).

2. The second is that next to the pounds there was Myasnitskay sloboda and then street

(that is the area for living and working of artisans (the old Russian name of the area of this kind is sloboda) and streets where butchers had their houses and productions.

( By the way the name of Myasnitskaya exisit for more then 400 years in Moscow).

These Butchers delivered waste to the pounds and dropped them there

Why did they become clean then (Chistye)?

In the beginning of the 18 century, one of the friends, assistant of Peter the 1st, Alexander Menshikov decided to buy an ancient country estate next to Chustye Pound, but he did not want to live next to dirty and smelling place and ordered to clean it and not to pollute them ever.

Until the beginning of the 19 century, the pounds were the area where rich people (aristocratic families (the side from the pounds and Kremlin), merchants and state men (side between the pounds and Sadovoye Koltso) had their own country estates.*

*Moscow consisted of them (that is a big central house ( or a palace) with household buildings and a park (or big garden).

Thats why sometimes Moscow still is called a big village :thumbdwn: (it had come from the 19 century but afterward the name BIG VILLAGE got a new reason), cause of country estates with their kitchen-gardens, gardens, not high main buildings, fences and animals (cows and so on) in these country estates (farms).

Why are Chistye pounds liked by Moscovites (and not only):

The area have not been suffered much by Soviet buildings, wish of crazy soviet architects to destroy Moscow historical places, to build high houses with huge amount of flats for working class or to build Stalin palaces and so on.

So you can see the end of 19 and beginning of the 20 century Moscow.
+ Chistiye Pounds became boulevard in 1820 so it was very comfortable and well living for wealthy people (still?).

By the way the area is liked by expats from French speaking countries, first of all, due there is a special school for their children here.
So many French expats prefer the area.

who can add and help? :11157:

cool story, thanks

lNl
30-12-2009, 14:08
Why Kitay-gorod got such a name?

The name of one of the central districts in Moscow - Kitay-gorod - isn't connected with 'Kitay' (Russian word for China) as we can think.
The main version of the historians is the following: this name came from the ancient word 'kita' that meant 'branches tied together' that were used in the construction of fortifications of Moscow in the 16th century before stone walls were built.

Dolgoprudny Neil
30-12-2009, 16:40
Hi, think this is a great idea.

Could you tell me anything about Dolgoprudny?

FatAndy
30-12-2009, 17:12
I think the name came from long pond(S) - Dolgie prudy situated along of Dmitrovskoe shosse. If you go by car or bus North from the city, it is left side, 3-4 km from MKAD, just after left turn to Dolgoprudny:
œои ка€‚‹ €” Яндекс.šа€‚‹ (http://maps.yandex.ru/?um&ll=37.552702%2C55.939888&spn=0.082995%2C0.034445&z=14&l=map)
Famous with MIPT (МФТИ), which was organized 25 Nov 1946 as Phys.-Tech. dept of MSU and got 2 buildings in Dolgoprudny, at 1951 reorganized to a separate educational center called Moscow Phys.-Tech. Institute.

tvadim133
30-12-2009, 19:15
I have found following information:

Dolgoprudnyy - a regional town in the Chekhov district, Moscow region. Founded in 1931 as pristantsionny (next to the train station) settlement.

Status of the city received in 1957. there live 68,5 thousand people.

Former village Vinogradovo that on long pond (which gave the name of the city) is excluded from the Dolgoprudny and included in the district of "Northern" part of Moskow.

The history of Dolgoprudny begins with the estate Vinogradovo listed today as a part of Moscow.

Manor is known since 1623, when erected on the vacant throne of Boris Godunov, belonged to his sworn enemy, the disgraced Gabriel Grigorjevichu Pushkin - the legendary ancestor of the poet Alexander Pushkin.

In 1638, the estate passed by inheritance grandson Gabriel G. - Matthew Stepanovich Pushkin, who owned it for half a century until he was exiled to Peter for taking part of his son Fyodor in Streltsi riot (Strelrsy were a members of the KING army (or bodyguards).

Ponds has got a name for its great length, and whimsical form: Dolgy means LONG and Prydny mean PONDS in the forms of ajective.

By That debt ponds in 1900 there was named platform Dolgoprudnaya Savelovski rail lines, which gave later the name for the new city Dolgoprudny.

Later, the manor belonged to different owners, among which the most famous were the landlords Bakendorfy frequently invited to the estate of such prominent people as the great Russian classics, GR Derzhavin, NM Karamzin, IA Krylov, as well as sculptor, MA Ramazanov.

The last owner of the estate was a landlord EM Banse, who emigrated after the October revolution.

In Soviet times there was a children's sanitarium.

Today is a very deplorable condition of the estate - its main building is gradually destroyed, and the park is in ruins.

tvadim133
31-12-2009, 12:00
So the falt is clean in waiting guests; it is too yearly to cook for NY diner, so in having some spare time, may be I will contnue the travel around Moscow.

I am sure you like Patriarchy Ponds (some people-tourists take them for Chistye PONDS).

Actyally the area around is one of my famouse in Moscow due:

1. in chilhood I lived in Tishinka sq. which is very close to the area and we often walked in my grand aunt there.
2. still I like exploring this territory over and over

In the 16 century on the site of the Patriarch's Ponds there located Goat swamp (in honor of whom got their name Big and Small Kozikhinskiy Lanes).

That 's why the place was considered to be devilish. Even still there happen some strange stories (by the way Bulgakov in his novel "Master..." took the place as a start of the story not by chance. And the area is well known by local police by strange "events".

At the end of the XVI century.(1683 - 1684.) It became a place for the residence chosen by Patriarch Joachim and it become Patriarchal Sloboda (settlement or area for living of staff of Patriarch (Head of the Church).
For fish farming to the patriarch's desk there were made three ponds, later called the Patriarchal. Alas, to this day, only one survived, but about the past they are reminded with Trekhprudny lane.


In the middle of the 19 century The Patriarch's Ponds, were the most popular skating rink in Moscow.
In 1886, there was built an elegant pavilion, reminiscent of the previous building, delivered here in 1838.

In Soviet times, tried to rename the ponds in the Pioneer (young communists organization), but the new name caught on. So they remained patriarchal.

Patriarch is considered an elite place: in Soviet and post-Soviet era are well-known people settled and secured residence areas. This is one of the ten most prestigious districts of the capital.

In nearby. There is Malaya Bronnaya street, It was named to be here in XVI - XVII centuries as Bronnaya settlement or the area, where masters lived and manufactured metal armor and swords (Bron (БРОНЬ) means armour).

But, of course, the most popular Patriarchal are because of Bulgakov novel "The Master and Margarita", which the unfolding events happened in these places directly (you need to read it to understand Moscow and Muscovites (may be, to understand better mentality of Russians).

tvadim133
31-12-2009, 12:02
My favorite places next to Patriarchy Ponds (there are many, these are mine):

1. MANSION of TARASOVA be found at: BIG Patriarchal pereulok, 1 (1900 Italian Renaissance) Doge's Palace VENICE

Merchant of the1 st guildiya (it mean, the highest rang of merchants in Russia, who could import and export goods) Gabriel Aslanovich Tarasov: the owner of large manufactories in Yeakerinodar (now it is Krasnodar) + philanthropist.
The building was constructes ad residece. After the revolution (well0known) and until 1937 the building was used as the Supreme Court of the USSR, then, before the WW2, the mansion was given diplomatic services.

Mansion of Tarasov is a copy of Tiena palace in Vicenza (Italy). Almost all the architectural forms were borrowed from the Italian original. Proportions are removed from the Doge's Palace in Venice.

tvadim133
31-12-2009, 12:03
I wanted to insert some photo, but the option does not work now!

robertmf
01-01-2010, 06:55
ddd

Thanks for starting this thread :)

drwho
01-01-2010, 12:08
I would like to offer to start a thread about the history of Moscow.

The reason for that is following:

may be for new people who come to live to Moscow (no matter, from another country of another city, they have arrived), it may be important to know not only the cost of living, the places where to go to, how to solve problems with bureaucracy and GAI (though it is very important amd usefull as well), but

To understand the city, people here and to feel the place where you live,to feel the part of the city and not feel just expat and stranger here, may be, it is good if we can share the stories, legends about that or this area of Moscow?
I do not mean the history of Kremlin, or when Moscow was founded,,, but the history told by "moscovites" (no matter how long they live in Moscow).

What do you think about the idea? Let's start?

Excellent idea. I wrote a few thoughts about that on my blog. Did anyone visit the "Victory Park" museum / memorial. It's an interesting place. I would love to learn about the history of Moscow this thread is a good idea. Thanks. HNY in 2010 to all.

tvadim133
03-01-2010, 19:25
4. In the XVIII-XIX centuries Spiridonovka become a street of landed estates and mansions. There were family estates of the Potemkins, the Gagarins, the Naryshkins, the Orlovs (all these families were of prince level), the Suvorovs, the Vorontsovs (counts level) and other noble families.

Perhaps the most famous building on that street is a mansion Mrs. Morozova (the wife of the famous businessman and philanthropist, Savva Morozov), built in 1893-1898 after the design of Fyodor Shechtel in an English style castle (Neo-Gothic style).
the street Spiridonovka, N17 Now is the House of reception of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Russia.

tvadim133
03-01-2010, 19:28
MANSION of Shekhtel can be found at: Ermolaevsky pereulok, 28 (1896)

The face of Moscow of late XIX - early XX century, is largely determined by the creation of another great master of modernism, Feodor (Franz) Shechtel.

He is the author: of the cinema "Art" on Arbat Square, the Theater "Paradise" (now the Theater by name of Mayakovsky) on Nikitskaya, Yaroslavsky statio and so on.

This house was used as residence of the architect (and he is my favorite): The mansion looks like a small medieval knight's castle from a fairy tale.

Now it is the Embassy Uruguay.

tvadim133
03-01-2010, 19:29
But if you will go along Sytinskyi lane a little further, You will see a beautiful two-storey house Sytinsky lane N5) built in 1806 and miraculously survived a fire in 1812 (it was a typical example of Moscow architecture of the 18 the century).

May be this house could see Napoleon even!

Home of Sytin is a wooden house in 1806 (!!!), built on stone foundations of the end of XVII century,

The facade is embellished with a portico with Corinthian columns and moldings, some of which appeared after 1812. Sytin was a corporal of the Life Guards regiment Izmailovsky by name.

delobe
07-01-2010, 20:11
Hello what can you tell me about the parks of Moscow? Anything would be great . Also why they exist or is there anything special about any of them?

tvadim133
07-01-2010, 20:20
Hello what can you tell me about the parks of Moscow? Anything would be great . Also why they exist or is there anything special about any of them?

I will try to prepare some information about parks in Moscow.

The most interesting, famouse, historic and old parks in Moscow are:

1. Ostankino;
2. Sokolniky;
3. Losiny Ostrov;
4. Tsaritsino
5. Lefortovo;
6. Park Gorkovo (it is not so "new" as people think);
7. Ermitage (it is not a park actually, but...);
8. Kuskovo
9. Kuzminky
10. Kolomenskoye
11. Botanichesky Garden

May be you are interested in some special or your favourite (for example, you live next to)?

tvadim133
08-01-2010, 00:50
I would like to start with two my favorite parks: Ostankino and Kuskivo.

In 18 century the border of Moscow was withi Garden Ring (Sadovoye Koltso) until the end of the 19 century even.

So both Ostankino and Kuskovo were belongs to one of the well-know court count Sheremeryev.

They were country estates of the count , who was very educated, developed and rich.

Kuskovo was built (rebuilt) in 1750 as a small copy of Versailles (it was fashionable to build palaces and parks like in Versailles in Russia in the 18 century and because of he slavery system, Russian aristocracy could afford doing that).

Ostankino was know from the 16 century as a country estate (village actually) of the princes Cherkassky, and was used more as a hunting house where the prince and his servants stayed during their hunting with falcons.

One of the daughter of the prince got married with the count Sheremetyev (the owner of Kuskovo) and the country estates became the heritage of lets say dowry of her.

So the count built another palace and park like in Versailles there.

Both Palaces and Parks were used for entertainment:

1. Kuskovo was used a summer house for masquerades, balls, theatre performance (each rich family had a family or home theatres, where their slaves were performed as actors and actresses (singers, dancers) .

On the territory of the park there are some pavilions (houses) in Holland style, Italy stile, Russian style, Marine style (made with cockle-shells) and the summer theatre (the galleries, the stage was build on the small hill with bushes, trees (it can be seen now as well).

During some events they used a pond next to the palace ( where there could be about 30-40 ships even) for the sea battles.

It is difficult to imagine, in Kuskovo there could participate in some events about 30 000 people!

The estate was owned by the member of the family until 1917, and, thanks God, exactly after the revolution, the palace and park became the museum, so we could see the real (not ruins) of the park and the palace of the 18h century.

Now Kuskovo is a museum and the favorite place for walking and having rest (+ they organize some events there as well ( for example, the Independence Day (USA) takes place here by tradition.

Some extrasenses consider Kuskovo to be full of very positive energy (there are some gates from cosmos as they think).

I do not know if it is true but actually when I had headache, it was over after 30 minutes of walking there (may be just fresh air).

Even at WW2, the complex was not bombed and destroyed.

tvadim133
08-01-2010, 00:52
i

tvadim133
08-01-2010, 00:56
2. Ostankino palace and it’s park were built the second part of the 18 century.

Actually, Ostankino was a village and the name came from the word “Ostashkovo” which was the previous name of the village.

The place was connected with many Russian queens and kings (Impresses) and even was used once as place where one imperator stayed before the coronation (no matter that the capital was moved to S.Petersburg, all coronations had to take place in Moscow only, which remained the capital of Russia Church).

In the Ostankino Palace there was the most popular among the aristocracy theatre (opera and ballet) owned by the count Sheremetyev.

He even got married one of his slave-actress (dancer) in the end of his life, that was very scandalous.

In the theatre there are still some concerts in summer.

From 1830, Ostankino became a popular place for walking among muscovites.

Houses around it and some houses (additional to the palace) were rented out as summer houses (datcha), due it was far way from Moscow that time.

Ostankino is a strange place, the legend told us that in the 16 century, on the territory of the palace there was a cemetery of pagans and later there was a place where suicides were buried.
But the owner of the estate did not listen to some warnings. He met with an old hunchback, who forecasted his death punishment (it happened soon), if he continued building his country estate at that place.
So she appeared a lot of times there, and soon some bad thing happened.

As Muscovites say, if you meet in the evening an old hunchback, do not tell with her and run ways, or you will be dead soon.

I do not know, if it is true, but the last time, when many people saw her, was one week before the well-known fire at the TV tower Ostankino.

some of our members confirmed that she saw some gohst there (she lived next to the park), did she?

tvadim133
08-01-2010, 01:00
i
sorry I have inserted the 3d photo by mistake (it is Kuskovo once again)

delobe
08-01-2010, 17:57
Well I am interested in getting a good view of most of them, but the park I live near is park gorkovo (park kulturi) which seems a bit of a disappointment. (By the way on subject of parks is it common to cross country ski on any of them?)

lNl
10-01-2010, 23:37
Delobe, you can enjoy skiing for example in Bitsevsky park (south of Moscow, not far from the metro stations Novojasenevskaya and Chertanovskaya), it is a big national forest with many hills and many skiers =)