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kiki
17-09-2003, 12:42
Nice old Soviet times.......
With no regrets I still have good memories about it (((( Anybody willing to share?:confused: :D

allice
17-09-2003, 12:50
the NICE babuskas у подъездов gossiping, elderly men listening to radio and playing chess outside... 13yearolds who are still virgins... very green suburbs... kasha na zavtrak..

елки зеленые:)
детство блин.. восьмидесятые
cheezy love songs :D

DaveUK1965
19-09-2003, 09:46
Well, I was never there, but I believe there was a real sense of community. Saw so much of it in the provinces, though.... is it true that provincial Russian families rarely move from a kvartera and may stay there - along with their neighbours - for all their lives ??

Ledka
19-09-2003, 10:52
yes Dave, fortunately or unfortunately it is true

DaveUK1965
19-09-2003, 11:24
:-)

Ledka, I think that`s fortunate. ;-)))) I was part of the last generation where that happened in England. There really was a sense of community around here.

This is why I love Russia so much. It`s me going back to my childhood. ;-))) Strange as it may seem, I think there are a lot of things which are so much better in Russia than in England. And a lot worse things, too. ;-)))

Well, my ex-fiancee`s parents used to talk about the old Soviet days - when they were much happier. It seems to me that the Kryuschev/ Brezhnev years were happy ones for the majority of Russian people...... am I right ??


Originally posted by Ledka
yes Dave, fortunately or unfortunately it is true

bibliofil
19-09-2003, 11:52
Dave, cmon, don't be so naive.

People moan about today's life only because they need to work hard these days to earn living. Back then you did not needto wrok. You needed to attain yr workplace but yr salary was guaranteed. As the result virtually nobody produced anything in this country.

It is all b***s about community. You had JEK, party committee, veteran committee and lots of other f*** committees who had the right to enter yr flat without any warrants and check what the hell you are doing there. One has had to be attached to the workplace. If not - jail, or they were kicked out of the flat they lived in and actually their right to live in their own city could have been withdrawn.

People born in the country side started receiving passports after war. They were oficially slaves in the own country.

Physologically, it's understandable, people always want their youth back, but to take it seriously...

And in Bratain, it was a lovely sense of community in 60-70th Britain. But toilets in a lot fo Vistorian houses were outside even in the middle 70th and there was no hot water or heating.

Give us a break. :D

DaveUK1965
19-09-2003, 12:22
Heheeee !

Not naieve, Bibliofil - "the old days always look better". ;-) There seems to be still the same sense of community in provincial Russia now - maybe I`m wrong, I don`t know - but - well, over here, now, unaffordable housing, no one knows their neighbours any more, gangs of kids roaming the streets, collapsed health service, public transport a disaster, unaffordable health insurance, unaffordable car insurance, traffic gridlock....... permanent rain and our national football team is a disgrace. ;-))

Bring back outside toilets. ;-))) Oh yes, and the 1960`s / 70`s in general. ;-)))) Sometimes taking a crap out of doors is the least of your worries. ;-)))

Dave ;-))))




Originally posted by bibliofil
Dave, cmon, don't be so naive.

People moan about today's life only because they need to work hard these days to earn living. Back then you did not needto wrok. You needed to attain yr workplace but yr salary was guaranteed. As the result virtually nobody produced anything in this country.

It is all b***s about community. You had JEK, party committee, veteran committee and lots of other f*** committees who had the right to enter yr flat without any warrants and check what the hell you are doing there. One has had to be attached to the workplace. If not - jail, or they were kicked out of the flat they lived in and actually their right to live in their own city could have been withdrawn.

People born in the country side started receiving passports after war. They were oficially slaves in the own country.

Physologically, it's understandable, people always want their youth back, but to take it seriously...

And in Bratain, it was a lovely sense of community in 60-70th Britain. But toilets in a lot fo Vistorian houses were outside even in the middle 70th and there was no hot water or heating.

Give us a break. :D

wwwoland
19-09-2003, 12:32
I happened to be in Moscow in the late 80s. Things were bad. The soviet system was collapsing, no food in the stores, long lines, grey, dark and dirty city, and worst of all Gorby was on his anti-alcohol campaign! :confused: But still, life was simple and there was a great deal of enjoyment in that. Despite the hardships, we had a wonderful time, good friends and lots of fun. Of course looking back it is always easier to forget the bad and remember the good...

kiki
23-09-2003, 18:05
Well, I remember first MCDonald opened at Ul. Gorkogo (now Tverskaya) in 1989. Queue to get in was unbelievebly long, 3-4 hours.
Average russian salary was around 100-150 rub a month and my favourite BigMack cost 10 rub on that time!!!

M. Romanov
24-09-2003, 07:25
I hope, in my heart, that a new Russia will include the beautiful influences of the old monarchy. Russia and Russians need to have a sense of belonging to a history other than the fear and betrayal of murderers like Lenin and Stalin who together caused the murder of over 20 million people in the 1040s. I believe that a Holy Mother Russia needs to be re-established to save the soul of our country and its people.

ingsoc
25-09-2003, 08:51
Romanov..I agree with you COMPLETELY!!!:)

DaveUK1965
25-09-2003, 10:01
"I hope, in my heart, that a new Russia will include the beautiful influences of the old monarchy."

Wooo boy. Like the Tsar dissolving Parliament time after time after time because it didn`t agree with him ?????

Ned Kelly
25-09-2003, 14:42
Yes, I'm for the return of the monarchy and revival of Holy Mother Russia. It's fall was one of history's great tragedies.

As to the Sovki who talk about the Soviet Union raising education standards I always wonder how this was achieved in about 1923 with a civil war in between? The last Tsar had to be one of the most decent rulers the country had and in the last decade the country was making good progress....tragic that it was cut short.

DaveUK1965
25-09-2003, 14:49
Ned, I`d be for the return of the Monarchy now, and the proper revival of the Church, but as for Nick II... he was a lot better than what came afterwards, but..... he wasn`t exactly a model ruler.

Just one thing - I can remember somewhere that there WERE still surviving Romanov`s with a possible chance of getting their old jobs back - how popular an idea is this in Russia, then ???

twaj
25-09-2003, 15:46
Alexander II was the one and only Czar I liked - he seemed to be the only one that cared about anyone. The guy died when some dynamiters attacked his carriage in Piter. The carriage was actually blast proof, but his carriage driver was badly injured and he rushed out to help him and was blown away by dynamiter #2. When he died, he was in the process of transitioning power to a parliament, and if he had lived, Russia might have become a constitutional monarchy and millions might have been spared.

I attended a Christian fundamentalist Liberal Arts college. Everyone was required to stay in the dormitories and men were not allowed in the women's buildings except during supervised intervisitation hours on the weekends. It was effectively totalitarian - you could get kicked out of school for having sex and were socially ostracised for being an atheist as I was. In all reality I should have transfered, but we were so brainwashed with doctrinal nonsense that we thought the place had a great reputation. The upside was that you could leave your laptop computer in a bag in the lobby of the cafeteria without fear of it being stolen, and almost nobody locked their doors. The campus ws aesthetically perfect. People like me can't handle such environments - it made me a libertine.

DaveUK1965
25-09-2003, 15:52
"Alexander II was the one and only Czar I liked - he seemed to be the only one that cared about anyone. The guy died when some dynamiters attacked his carriage in Piter. The carriage was actually blast proof, but his carriage driver was badly injured and he rushed out to help him and was blown away by dynamiter #2. When he died, he was in the process of transitioning power to a parliament, and if he had lived, Russia might have become a constitutional monarchy and millions might have been spared."

Wasn`t Lenin`s brother executed due to his involvement in a plot against Alexander II ?? ;-)))))))) Or have I been drinking again ??

You old Libertine, Twaj, good for you. ;-))))))

twaj
25-09-2003, 16:39
Yeah - it was the same Piter-based group.

M. Romanov
26-09-2003, 08:07
I am glad to see that there are still people in Russia who hold on to their love for a Holy Russia. The blood of millions of our brothers and sisters cries out from the blood soaked Russian soil. It was put their by evil men bred by a communist idiology designed solely to exterminate our Russia's soul and identity. I, for one, will not let that tragedy happen again. I would give up my life to prevent it. The spirit of my grandfather demands it.

J.D.
26-09-2003, 08:15
as opposed to the mass killings sponsored by religion?

M. Romanov
26-09-2003, 08:22
Ned and Twaj....You are right. But the revolution was, as Tsar Nicholas was reported to have said, ' inevitable ' I believe because he knew of the betrayals from his own family ( his uncle) to those in the military whom he referred to as cowards. They all sold him out to the Nazis and the Catholic Church who set those monsters up.

M. Romanov
26-09-2003, 08:30
J.D. You are right. Your comment is very insightful. It was religion that has caused the deaths of all those millions from Napoleon through to the present. During WW1 the fight was to decide which religion was to triumph the Catholics or the Orthodox Christians. It was obvious that the Tsar had to be removed first because he was the head of the Orthodox Church then the Jesuits introduced Communism to destroy the faith of our people. The WW2 was a continuation of that program.

DaveUK1965
26-09-2003, 08:58
"then the Jesuits introduced Communism "

In other words, "Yep, bring back the old order, but no kykes, heebies or Red Sea Pedestrians, please. "

DaveUK1965
26-09-2003, 09:09
And he AGREES about religion - or rather religious intolerance causing the deaths of millions !!! ;-)))))

What exactly was Napoleons` religious motive for entering a war with Russia ? Or Hitler`s ? Both good god-fearing pillars of the Christian church, were they ? WW2 was a religious war ??

It is a total fallacy to try and create some mythical bygone golden age in Russia. There never has been one. Russians have always been exploited and extorted by whatever leadership was around at the time - the people at the top change, but not the regime, which is the same whether the leader at the time is wearing a Saville Row suit, a white uniform or a crown and it is an act of utter naievety to think that the policies of ANY prior Russian leader could solve Russia`s problems today.

Read your history and you`ll find out that the Tsars` unpopularity came as a direct result of ignoring ministerial advice and taking personal command and responsibility for the Army in WW1. And doing a very bad job of it. Millions died. There was also a famine in 1917 caused by the lack of agricultural workers to harvest the goods - sheer mismanagement.

In 1905 - how did the 1905 revolution start ? Because of a BREAD riot. If you want to advocate the return to power of some leader who presided over a system which couldn`t even put BREAD in the mouths of his people - and brutally repressed them at bullet and bayonet point when they rebelled against it - if THAT constitutes a golden age of Russia which it`s preferable to return to - God help the place.

Ned Kelly
26-09-2003, 12:15
Yes, the greatest threat to Russia are the pope-lovers in Lvov.

DaveUK1965
26-09-2003, 12:21
Ned, I agree totally.

If Russia`s going to have the Romanov dynasty back, great. If it`s going to have a proper Orthodox Church and a monarchy as a focus, great. I`m all for it.

If any believes that harkening back to pre-1917 is a universal panacea for the country`s present day ills..... tell me another one. What does anyone think there was a revolution FOR ??

History records Nicholas II as a well intentioned Tsar with no comprehension of the sufferings of his people and no ability to listen to advice from his ministers..... none of which cared about "the common people" anyway. If that sounds familiar, it`s because it`s been the pattern in Russia since time immemorial.

DaveUK1965
26-09-2003, 12:27
Anyway - here we go off topic again ! ;-))

So, folks - what WERE the good points about the old USSR, then ????

dmitry2001
26-09-2003, 12:51
Thanx, Dave, you sound REALLY reasonable.:) And you seem to know Russian history. That's nice. Twaj as well...:)

dmitry2001
26-09-2003, 12:56
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Anyway - here we go off topic again ! ;-))

So, folks - what WERE the good points about the old USSR, then ????

When this country was reviving after the guyz from Germany had swept the hell out of here people were really united by the idea of building a new wonderful country. An atmosphere of real fraternity prevailed. There were no national problems (as opposed to recent sh*t), there were not much of this encloser in human relations maybe...
During Brezhnev era everything was simple. Everybody knew where to go, what to do, how much is the salary, what will the pension, what is the medical treatment etc. That was also a positive point. (We are speaking about + of live, their were plenty of "-", but that's not the subject of this tread)

Cheerz

Ned Kelly
26-09-2003, 12:57
Dima, that would make you around 73 years-old I guess?

dmitry2001
26-09-2003, 12:59
Originally posted by Ned Kelly
Dima, that would make you around 73 years-old I guess?

Yea. actually I'm 91 and have already made a t/t for a place at the cemetry

DaveUK1965
26-09-2003, 16:18
91 ??? Well done, Dima !!! ;-))

dmitry2001
26-09-2003, 18:22
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
91 ??? Well done, Dima !!! ;-))
I have to struggle in order to survive in this expat community, Dave.
Thanks for cheering me up, man!

kiki
26-09-2003, 18:44
Dima,

How come Russia/USSR won WW2? Did you take part in any war?

dmitry2001
26-09-2003, 19:08
Originally posted by kiki
Dima,

How come Russia/USSR won WW2? Did you take part in any war?

kiki, darling, I have an amnesia and an alsheimer already. Don't forget my age.
I do not remember actually:(

kiki
27-09-2003, 14:19
Ha-ha (3 times)

DaveUK1965
27-09-2003, 14:44
Perhaps you remember the 50 rubles I lent you last week, Dima ? ;-)))

dmitry2001
29-09-2003, 18:05
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Perhaps you remember the 50 rubles I lent you last week, Dima ? ;-)))

Will never get them back, Dave:) :D

But if we meet someday, I'll buy you a beer
:)

kiki
29-09-2003, 18:23
Buy two, Dima:D :D :D (((((((((

dmitry2001
29-09-2003, 18:29
Originally posted by kiki
Buy two, Dima:D :D :D (((((((((

That will be definately too much for an imagined 50 roubles debt.
But I have a kind heart
:D And a greedy soul:p

M. Romanov
30-09-2003, 02:35
I knew if I pushed it the real faithfull Russians would come and show themselves. Those like DaveUK would also come out of the woodwork who say they are real Russians but are only either Communist stooges or subversive Catholics who want to say funny pretty things but are snakes in disguise. My fellow countrymen, those true to our motherland, we are presently in a fight for our identity which we once had all too clear. The tsar and our Holy faith in our Lord Jesus is the direction we must take to re-establish who we are today. Presently in the USA and in the UK people think we are without an identity.

Ned Kelly
30-09-2003, 08:47
what are you presently doing in the U.S.?

DaveUK1965
30-09-2003, 22:33
Trolling bulletin boards with replies about a country his grandad came from but he`s never been to, perhaps ?

Are the communist stooges like the Three Stooges ? Curly, Larry and Molotoff ?

DaveUK1965
30-09-2003, 22:38
Actually, I think you`re getting confused with the Karl Marx brothers, there, but do continue, I can almost understand what you`re saying, which appears to be more than you can......

M. Romanov
01-10-2003, 07:44
DaveUK...I guess the truth hurts. Maybe you and others like you are just mentally embroiled in the muck with which Russians have had to deal with in the last eighty years or so since Russia was governed by a legitimate government. So I don't blame you or those who believe like you. But I can't believe that you and your friends, who love Russia and want to see her reclaim the glory which once was hers in the sight of God, would allow her to be divided up and destroyed by the Papists. It is happening as I write this reply. May our Lord have mercy on our people.

To reply to Ned's question. 'What am I doing in the US?' Its a long story Ned. My grandfather and greatgrandmother and her children escaped from the revolution in 1918. They changed their names and were taken to Malta where the Empress Marie sheltered them from the Communists. Then they settled in Sicily, Italy. They had a whole new identity and a whole new life securely encased among the peasant population but they weren't peasants. Soon afterwards my parents emigrated to Australia to be with others they knew. About thirty years ago we came to the US. My parents returned to Sicily and I stayed here. Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich was my grandfather.

Ned Kelly
01-10-2003, 08:08
Well, if you're such a sincere believer in Holy Russia you should come back.

DaveUK1965
01-10-2003, 10:27
As if we didn`t have enough trolls on the board already. ;-)))))

I`ll reply when I`ve finished laughing. Love the Snoopy icon - is the double headed eagle losing its` appeal nowadays ? ;-)) And yes, my great grandfather WAS a laird in Ireland. I am, however, merely a dole-wallah trying desperately - unlike some - to get a job and a life in Russia, a country I love very much.

Enough, as Ned says, to actually have the strength of character to get on a plane and go there.

Dave



Originally posted by M. Romanov
DaveUK...I guess the truth hurts. Maybe you and others like you are just mentally embroiled in the muck with which Russians have had to deal with in the last eighty years or so since Russia was governed by a legitimate government. So I don't blame you or those who believe like you. But I can't believe that you and your friends, who love Russia and want to see her reclaim the glory which once was hers in the sight of God, would allow her to be divided up and destroyed by the Papists. It is happening as I write this reply. May our Lord have mercy on our people.

To reply to Ned's question. 'What am I doing in the US?' Its a long story Ned. My grandfather and greatgrandmother and her children escaped from the revolution in 1918. They changed their names and were taken to Malta where the Empress Marie sheltered them from the Communists. Then they settled in Sicily, Italy. They had a whole new identity and a whole new life securely encased among the peasant population but they weren't peasants. Soon afterwards my parents emigrated to Australia to be with others they knew. About thirty years ago we came to the US. My parents returned to Sicily and I stayed here. Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich was my grandfather.

DaveUK1965
01-10-2003, 10:31
PS "Legitimate government" ?

Read your history - there never WAS a legitimate government in Russia - the Tsar disbanded it when it didn`t agree with him.

Now, returning to the thread - I hope ........ would anyone here like to tell Comrade Romanoff here (and the rest of us peasants) about the good times in the old USSR ? ;-))

Ned Kelly
01-10-2003, 10:36
The Tsar was a skilled negotiator with the later Dumas; as to the first couple, they were a rabble and he was right to dissolve them.

allice
01-10-2003, 10:38
Hey Dave!!

Well hope we see you soon;) :)
As for Monsieur Romanov... It's not the first case of megalomania we witness? Or is it? The Grand Duke thing... And I am the greatgranddaughter of .... No, can't think of anything good at the moment..:D

DaveUK1965
01-10-2003, 11:03
Privet Allice !
Hope to get there soon ! Well, had some luck, but it`s just a matter of how to get over for interviews, find a place.... the usual things - money. ;-)))) Ahh, life, isn`t it great ? ;-)))

Ned, you`re right there - but I don`t think that Tsarist times were the utopia Comrade Romanov tells us they were. I`m not a Tsar -ist, Communist or anything- ist, but I think the old USSR had a lot of good points - and a lot of bad ones, too. And this thread was about the good times, of course. ;-)))))))


Originally posted by allice
Hey Dave!!

Well hope we see you soon;) :)
As for Monsieur Romanov... It's not the first case of megalomania we witness? Or is it? The Grand Duke thing... And I am the greatgranddaughter of .... No, can't think of anything good at the moment..:D

DaveUK1965
01-10-2003, 11:06
PS I also find myself curiously in agreement with M Romanov (and Ned too) that re-establishing the Monarchy and Church in Russia as central pillars of Russian society would do the country a lot of good - as it`d form an opposition to the Government - well.... theoretically, but I rather think that all that would happen would that it`d end up being the same beast with three heads to bite you.

But the real thread is... "Good times under the old USSR"... ;-)))))

Ned Kelly
01-10-2003, 11:31
Alas, it's impossible to re-establish the monarchy. I once interviewed the Spanish kid (the heir) and he's a dill and his mother is a shameless social climber.

I just don't like listening to the Soviet story of how terrible the Tsarist-era was. The labour laws and education efforts in the later period of Nicholas II's reign were among the most advanced in Europe and as to the repression, well, look what came next.

M. Romanov
02-10-2003, 07:31
Ned...I woud love to come to Russia. I feel the Lord has pushed me in that direction for sometime. It would be great if I could connect with those who truly want to re-establish the Monarchy so I could work with them. It would be a long and hard task to undertake. It would mean blood and sacrifice because I'm sure that Putin and his government won't stand for it at all. It's not necessary to go that route at all if a Constitutional Monarchy was set up. If I were chosen to be Tsar I would do what was necessary to re-establish a Holy Russian homeland once again. This time our government would be a legitimate one.


Before my grandfather left Russia a legitimate government did exist who was supposed to reorganize and choose a new Tsar and therefore continue an orderly continuance. Russia could restart from that point because I am his legitimate heir we have been in exile for eighty odd years but now we are back. I just need someone to listen and to support this effort.

M. Romanov
02-10-2003, 07:46
I know its hard to believe someone coming out of the woodwork and saying he is the lost king of whatever and I don't blame any of you for thinking that...I kinda left myself out there, I know. Fortunately for me I can prove who I am. I have all the documentation I need from photographs taken after 1918 of all the family members from Anastasia to Alexie except for Nicholas 2nd. I have sent these items to Boris Nemtsov before the government buried who they say were the bones of the Romanovs...what a lie that was. Their reply was..'the case is closed...take us to court.' Vladimir Andrianov the now Chief advisor to the Prime Minister at that time (around 1994) was advisor to Nemtsov he advised me to do the same. So my only hope is to reach out this way..as poor as it may seem.

Ned Kelly
02-10-2003, 08:13
your ancestor was the family dog?

DaveUK1965
02-10-2003, 12:19
Ahhh, but a very regal one, Ned. ;-)))))

M. Romanov
05-10-2003, 08:47
Pearls to swine Ned...Pearls to Swine. I guess you must hate yourself too. I keep on forgetting I'm in the USSR Chat. You all keep on forgetting IT DOESN'T EXIST.

M. Romanov
05-10-2003, 08:55
Dave and Ned...you two make a fine couple. I think Ned leads and Dave follows behinds. lol! You guys should be a lot more supportive of the inevitable.

DaveUK1965
05-10-2003, 13:08
Yep, it`s an old USSR thread, Comrade Romanov - so why did you step in ?

And. You`re just a wind up, you don`t exist, it`s a complete con, well done. M. Romanov using language like "kinda" and "you guys" and "I guess" and "LOL " - very regal. If you DO go back, your diction needs polishing. ;-)))))))

Excuse me, just have to follow Ned around for a while. And if you`d bother to read the thread - I`m apolitical but look at this from a historical viewpoint but would like to see the establishment of a monarchy and church, Ned feels much the same but we only differ in our perspective of what the actual achievements of communism / socialism were.

Your hat`s too tight, mate. Sorry. Crown. ;-))))))))))

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 14:49
Full marks for "pearls to swine" Misha, I liked it, even if you are a crank. Having been an ardent monarchist all of my life I found the rest of it equally entertaining.:p

DaveUK1965
05-10-2003, 14:57
Hey Ned, quick question for a monarchist - what do you think about Queen Elizabeth II of Blighty .... and Oz ??

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 15:12
I'm only a monarchist in relation to Holy Russia.

I'm an ardent republican in Australia - or my name aint Ned Kelly!

DaveUK1965
05-10-2003, 15:38
Well said, mate. Any more room in the boat, there ? ;-)

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 15:42
not sure i'm with you.

if you're referring to our dirty little swine prime minister and the boat people - well, there's the behaviour of a british to the bootheels monarchist for you.

Jet
05-10-2003, 16:08
Let's admit it that australian treatment of refugees is quite harsh! Although I also admit that Blair is a one dirty lying mf!

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 16:14
Jet Li I disagree with just about every word you have ever written but I am not about to defend the indefensible.

The tragedy is that Australia was built by refugees, including my Russian grandparents, and became a wealthy and free place due to their labours. To deny other people wanting a better life the same opportunities is just rank hypocrisy and disgusting.

What upsets me more is how well the policy played with the publc; it taught me something I didn;t really know about my own country, that it's pretty selfish and redkneck in outllok.

Jet
05-10-2003, 16:35
Ned,
don't get upset, I was just saying that comparing to, for example, Europe, closing refugees in in what is actually concentration camps is quite harsh. In Holland the government is engaged in a long discussion with different parties and also general public regarding the fate of refugees that have been turned down officially but can not leave the country. The point is to treat people humanely, even if - according to the letter of the law - they can be treated harshly.

btw if you so proud of your various heritages, do you speak any Russian?

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 16:42
Yes, I am pretty sensitive on this issue because I've always been proud of Australia as a fair and tolerant place.

DaveUK1965
05-10-2003, 16:44
Aliens Police. My mate Tim is in the Aliens Police in Holland and was telling me that if he deports someone to - say - Liberia, they`ll be back. Because the first thing they did on getting to Holland was - rip their passport up. They get OFF the plane back home - Customs say "Where`s your passport ? "

"No passport".

They`re then put on the plane and sent back home. Well, Jet Li, I lived for 7 months in Rotterdam, and - whew, what a problem there with uncontrolled immigration. However, you`re right, so`s Ned - immigration to Oz is far, far too strict, and as a knee jerk reaction to anyone coming in without white skin and middle class protestant values, you get the Pauline Hanson`s of this world....

I can`t understand it - Holland`s a tiny place, 15m population, isn`t it ? Same as Australia - yet the immigration controls for Oz are draconian and lax beyond belief for Holland.....

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 16:48
drug laws are more relaxed too! a better place all round!

i must visit holland one of these days :p

Jet
05-10-2003, 16:51
Yeap, Dave, it is lax in Holland, but there is a gradual process of screwing the bolts. The legislation was set like this years ago, it can not and shouldn't be reversed over night, b/s human lifes, often with tragic fates, are involved.

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 16:53
J-L, as I've said before, you need to apply some of your humanism to your old rodina. She could do with some at the moment...

Jet
05-10-2003, 17:02
Ned, did I say today's Russia is humane?? Not at all, in Chechnya situation is dire, but at least I am not praizing it to the sky, like some aussies do their treatment of refugees. Russia is a poor country, it can not afford many things that aussies government can.

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 17:03
Fair enough. Those Aussies that praise the system are shitheads.

twaj
05-10-2003, 20:28
Dave - you should read up on Jakarta. Indonesia is basically what the Economist called the "Javanese Empire." You get thousands of islands with their own unique cultures, but the Javanese are trying to out-reproduce them all and dominate Indonesia. Indonesia currently has a population of 212 million, vs. Australia's petty 15 mil or so. However, it's a tricky situation, as some of the most dynamic contributions to SE Asian economies have been made by small, well networked ethnic Chinese minorities. Basically the best of the best in China take off for better economic climes (like Singapore) and do fabulously well - Australia would gain immensely from an upper middle cl**** English speaking, fiercely pro-market, anti-communist Chinese minority numbering a million or so.

The impetus for government management of immigration should be propelled by a desire to maintain western liberal traditions (such as the ones being sacrificed in Rotterdam as immigrant Muslim communities are largely intolerant of gays, travku, etc.) Nobody wants the equivalent of gypsies in their country - permanent residents who self-identify as being collectively extra-societal and therefore manifest a propensity for thievery and dirty dealing. With any large immigrant population, there is a sense of a breaking point, beyond which cultures refuse to integrate and instead maintain their own customs and traditions. People like the Indians and Koreans in the US provide a reasonable alternative to the 'gypsy' model, maintaining traditions while adopting western attitudes toward education, employment and consumption.

Ned Kelly
05-10-2003, 22:02
Twaj, just curious where you get such strong drugs in Moscow?

DaveUK1965
05-10-2003, 22:17
Hi Twaj -

I would be the very last person to avodcate UNCONTROLLED immigration - "Hey, just take a boat ride and welcome" - but. The point about Australian immigration is that if you`re not white, Anglo Saxon and protestant, it tends to be a bit hard to get to Oz nowadays.

Australians are a very fair and tolerant people, as Ned says - but - when two people of equal skills go through Immigration and the white bloke gets the stamp in the visa every time... something is badly wrong with a system which "saves Australian citizens from the yellow peril". ;-)

You then get lunatic chip shop owners scaremongering their way into near political candidacy. It`s like Russia saying "No Catholics today please"....... claiming it dissolves the value of the Orthodox Church. We don`t all fit into neat little boxes with the word "Nation" stamped on `em, of course. Which is what immigration (controlled immigration) is all about.

Just that Aussie immigration is being controlled WRONG. ;-))

M. Romanov
07-10-2003, 01:26
Hi Ned and Dave...thin skinned hah..I only replied in kind after all I'm sure you will agree with me that no-one likes to see their close relative called a 'dog'. I'm glad to read that you're a monarchist- so why all the negativity? I guess you people feel that I am a 'crank'. Fair enough, I know its hard to accept who I say I am so tell me what/how you would want me to prove it? If I can do it for you I will.
As far as OZ is concerned the 'white Australia policy which was done away with in 1985 would have stopped the 'Yellow menace' from over populating OZ but the liberals did away with it. My friends there tell me the whole place is unfairly 'Yellow' now.

DaveUK1965
07-10-2003, 01:50
Well, if you`d read the posts more carefully - Ned said he`d welcome the return of the monarchy and restoration of the church, I said, same thing, but let`s have a proper one.... and the thread really WAS about Old Russia/USSR and the good times... there were some good times, I think you`d agree ? One or two ???


Originally posted by M. Romanov
Hi Ned and Dave...thin skinned hah..I only replied in kind after all I'm sure you will agree with me that no-one likes to see their close relative called a 'dog'. I'm glad to read that you're a monarchist- so why all the negativity? I guess you people feel that I am a 'crank'. Fair enough, I know its hard to accept who I say I am so tell me what/how you would want me to prove it? If I can do it for you I will.
As far as OZ is concerned the 'white Australia policy which was done away with in 1985 would have stopped the 'Yellow menace' from over populating OZ but the liberals did away with it. My friends there tell me the whole place is unfairly 'Yellow' now.

M. Romanov
09-10-2003, 07:37
Dave I saw on a National Geographic program on the Russian Monarchy that there are Cossack groups out there who are waiting for the Monarchy to be re-established and who would fight strongly for it. Do you know of such organizations? I think it might be a good first move. What do you think?

HistoryExpert
15-12-2004, 05:13
There was a message from a M. Romanov posted here earlier, to the effect that HIH Grand Duke Michael survived. However, all the evidence points to the contrary. Grand Duke Michael was shot on 12 June 1918 in Perm, by the Bolsheviks. His murderers later published accounts od their foul deed.

Count George Brasov, Michael's son, was killed in an automobile accident in France, aged 20. He was unmarried.

The only survivor was Michael's stepdaughter, Tata. Countess Nathalie Segievna Brassova died in France in 1951.

How could there be a grandson by Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich? It would be interesting to know.

Maine Surfer
15-12-2004, 11:10
oh no, you ressurected a very old post :eek: shoot, not a post but a thread :rolleyes:

kak
15-12-2004, 11:22
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