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Toro
14-10-2009, 08:57
my first post, guys and gals.. i've been recently to the VDNH exhibition as i've always to see those golden statutes around the big fountain. i took a shot of one of the statutes. btw, i counted 16 golden beauties each representing a Soviet republic. but there were 15 republics, if my memory serves me right. anyway, i am a layman in history and i will post a pic once i accumulate enough points..)

would you mind sharing your pictures of VDNH as well?

Moskauerin
14-10-2009, 10:49
Hi, Toro! Welcome to the forum!

I have lived near VDNKh since childhood, and it is really great to hear about your interest to this location. :) BTW: why are you interested exactly in it? Do you also like the sculpture of the Worker and the Collective Farm Woman (Rabochiy i Kolkhoznitsa) by Vera Mukhina?

I have some pictures at my home computer, will try to download them a bit later.

It's a good question reg. 16 figures and 15 republics. Puzzles myself. Maybe the 16th is some symbol? Will have to do some research on that!

Ian G
14-10-2009, 11:09
There were Fifteen republics, plus Mongolia, which is also represented on the fountain, so 16 in all. Here is one of my pictures:
Fountain of the friendship of peoples on Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm1.static.flickr.com/61/155473617_8bbf39d2cc_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@155473617@@AMEPARAM@@8bbf39d2cc

I haven't seen Vera Mukhina's statue for several years- is it back in place yet?

Factory worker and Collective farmer on Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm1.static.flickr.com/50/110376306_36653191fa_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@110376306@@AMEPARAM@@36653191fa

If you want to see more of her work have a look at the clulpture in Парк Дружбы, near Речной Вокзал.

ХЛЕБ on Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/97849471_50dd0c613f_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@97849471@@AMEPARAM@@50dd0c613f
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seriykotik/97849471/

tvadim133
14-10-2009, 14:49
my first post, guys and gals.. i've been recently to the VDNH exhibition as i've always to see those golden statutes around the big fountain. i took a shot of one of the statutes. btw, i counted 16 golden beauties each representing a Soviet republic. but there were 15 republics, if my memory serves me right. anyway, i am a layman in history and i will post a pic once i accumulate enough points..)

would you mind sharing your pictures of VDNH as well?

the 16th statue is Karelo-Finnskaya ASSR which is was in USSR for a short period of time.

Moskauerin
14-10-2009, 16:00
I haven't seen Vera Mukhina's statue for several years- is it back in place yet?



It was dismantled for repair but should reappear soon (do not know when exactly). It depends on when the topic starter became interested in VDNKh - before the statue was removed or not.

Ian G
14-10-2009, 16:04
Moskauerin- yes, it's one of those things that gets postponed, and postponed, and postponed. Maybe they have lost some vital parts. :-(

tvadim133- I expect you're right about Finnish Karelia- I can't remember where I heard that the 16th statue represented Mongolia.

Moskauerin
14-10-2009, 20:48
Ian, I keep an eye on publications in the local newspaper, and it really gets postponed, but the latest news of reappearance was very convincing. We still hope...

Frankly speaking, I did not like the statue much when it was there. Especially because I was often travelling past it in a crowded bus in a traffic jam, and it somehow depressed me with it grey mass of metal. But then I read a lot about its history and what a great success it was at the world exhibition in Paris, and I came to like it.

Reg. the 16th statue: it has come to my mind that it might be Evreyskaya Avtonomnaya oblast' (Jewish Autonomous Region) that was founded in the early Soviet years in Siberia, but not sure.

Moskauerin
14-10-2009, 20:54
Here are some pictures as promised. Sorry, they are almost all with myself.

MissAnnElk
14-10-2009, 21:55
My VDNK photos are here: The Beet Goes On: In Which We Actually Venture OUT on a Weekend (http://thebeetgoeson.blogspot.com/2009/04/in-which-we-actually-venture-out-on.html)

Toro
14-10-2009, 22:13
million thanks, everyone. especially, for your photos. i must admit i learnt something new here! that Karelia was a Soviet republic..i bet i would have trouble naming them all, let alone Karelia. sounds like Stalin had a secret plan and it was close to Finland..anyway, i do wish to come to this amazing place again, hadnt had a chance to see Muhina's, sorry.

My interests are plain and basic: learn more about the Soviet history, there is abundance of material over there, just come out and see!

Toro
14-10-2009, 22:30
Here are some pictures as promised. Sorry, they are almost all with myself.

wonderful photos!

Grumpygummy
14-10-2009, 22:42
Reg. the 16th statue: it has come to my mind that it might be Evreyskaya Avtonomnaya oblast' (Jewish Autonomous Region) that was founded in the early Soviet years in Siberia, but not sure.


Surely it is Finland which used to be part of the Russian Empire from 1809 till 1917. On 6 December 1917 it proclamed its independence and was recognised by the USSR as its autonomous region. After the World War II, in which Finland supported Nazi Germany, the country had to pay a contribution to the USSR and lost some of its territory including Karelia.

Toro
17-10-2009, 08:42
i figured out the statue representing Russia. initially, i thought she was Ukraine

http://i34.tinypic.com/2ds0pz6.jpg

Moskauerin
17-10-2009, 12:00
Possibly, yes. You will know the statues and their corresponding republics better than us, local people, here. :) Russian and Ukrainian national costumes, especially for women, should look very much similar. Your post has made me curious what actually may be the difference. Will have to look it up in a book on the history of costumes at my parents' today. :)

RIKO
17-10-2009, 12:58
Here's a bit of trivia (photo lifted from Wikipedia): anyone know where this statue was located (apparently somewhere at VDNKh) ?

SV1973a
17-10-2009, 13:33
Possibly, yes. You will know the statues and their corresponding republics better than us, local people, here. :) Russian and Ukrainian national costumes, especially for women, should look very much similar. Your post has made me curious what actually may be the difference. Will have to look it up in a book on the history of costumes at my parents' today. :)

Ukrainian girls have bigger boobs, so I have been told.
But seriously, the Ukrainian girl at the fontaine wears the typical Ukrainian hairstyle (a band with flowers, but I have forgotten what it is called in Russian, but I think it is a `vinok`).

Ian G
17-10-2009, 14:02
RIKO

Here is a link about that monument of Stalin- from Russian wikipedia:
Памятник Сталину на ВСХВ — Википедия

It was in front of the Mechanization and Electrification pavillion for 2 years- from 1939 -1941. Apparently Stalin ordered it to be blown up as he thought it was a target for German attacks.
The Mechanization and Electrification Pavillion " was later renamed the Cosmos pavillion. Now it looks like this:
(photo fromthe 1980s- also Wikipedia):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Allunionsaustellung_(1980).jpg

RIKO
17-10-2009, 14:19
Here is a link about that monument of Stalin Many thanks, fascinating stuff.

Moskauerin
17-10-2009, 20:20
Ukrainian girls have bigger boobs, so I have been told.
But seriously, the Ukrainian girl at the fontaine wears the typical Ukrainian hairstyle (a band with flowers, but I have forgotten what it is called in Russian, but I think it is a `vinok`).

:) You are right, I mean about the flowers. :) Typical headware for a Ukrainian girl in a national costume is a crown of flowers with ribbons ("venok" in Russian).

Moskauerin
17-10-2009, 20:50
Here are some results of a brief research on the differences between the Russian and Ukrainian women's national costumes.

Typically the Russian women's national costume consists of a sarafan (a sleeveless long dress) with a shirt to wear under it. For the Ukrainian women's national costume it is typical to have a combination of a shirt and a special long skirt.

As for the headwear: for Russian unmarried girls it was typical to wear one plait and a ribbon in the hair. For married women it was obligatory to have two plaits and always to cover their head. Types of headwear included various elaborately decorated items, such is "kokoshnik", which is already well known in the West. For Ukrainian girls, as mentioned, the headwear included several coloured ribbons and possibly garlands of flowers.

Here are some pictures of Russian women's national costumes, including headwear.

pjw
17-10-2009, 21:03
Thankyou Moskauerin for those costume pics of the traditional Russian wedding attire. That's interesting. Now where are the comparative Ukrainian costumes? Got some links? :thumbsup:

BTW I liked the model wearing white in post 8 best.;)

Moskauerin
18-10-2009, 12:12
Thanks, Pete! You are flattering me. :) I'm nothing to compare with Ukrainian models in some aspects mentioned above by SV1973, you know. But still...

They are not exactly wedding dresses, some of them are just festive.

Sorry, haven't got any good pictures of Ukrainian national costumes so far. Will sure post them if get some handy.

SV1973a
18-10-2009, 12:23
Well, this is a picture of very young models.
The eldest girl wears the Russian traditional dress, the youngest one wears the Ukrainian traditional dress.

Hope this works because I have never posted attachments before.

SV1973a
18-10-2009, 12:28
And another one where you can see the Russian and Ukrainian hats.

SV1973a
18-10-2009, 12:31
Forgot the picture

Moskauerin
18-10-2009, 20:37
Hi! That's just it! Such nice kids. :) The 2nd picture is really a good example to show the difference. In the 1st picture I would not tell the Ukrainian from the Russian. They look very much the same.

SV1973a
18-10-2009, 20:57
Hi! That's just it! Such nice kids. :) The 2nd picture is really a good example to show the difference. In the 1st picture I would not tell the Ukrainian from the Russian. They look very much the same.

The first picture is of my two little daughters.
The second on is my daughter with her friend.
I took the pictures while we were still living in Europe.
I had to do a lot of business trips in all ex-USSR countries, and when my customers/clients asked me what they could give me as a present, I always asked for the traditional outfit of their country for my girls.
I also have a very nice one from Georgia, from Belarus, from Kazakstan, from Uzbekistan,... etc.

Moskauerin
18-10-2009, 21:04
The first picture is of my two little daughters.


I have just thought so. They really look very much alike. You are a lucky father. They are a typical Slavic type and look very authentic in these costumes. :)

I wish that Toro would post more pictures of the statues so that we could discuss national costumes of other republics. It really is an exciting topic!

Toro
19-10-2009, 09:13
Forgot the picture

this is a wowser.. God bless these bright kids! I really like the costumes, so intricate a design, feels like very hard work by somebody. Great, great topic - I was not really expecting to cause such a shower of comments. It makes me happy, pack up my camera and catch the first train on the Rizhkaya line!

Moskauerin
19-10-2009, 20:38
Toro, it's really worth it! VDNKh seems to be a special place. :)

It is connected with my best childhood memories. My father took me there for entertainment every spring/ summer. I remember how I was eager to stand for 2 hours in queque to ride some funny electric cars just for 5 minutes. There also used to be large models of a cosmic rocket and an airplane which people could visit and see what was inside. I am wondering whether they have been dismantled now. It was a sort of a Soviet Disneyland.

SV1973a
19-10-2009, 20:49
Toro, it's really worth it! VDNKh seems to be a special place. :)

It is connected with my best childhood memories. My father took me there for entertainment every spring/ summer. I remember how I was eager to stand for 2 hours in queque to ride some funny electric cars just for 5 minutes. There also used to be large models of a cosmic rocket and an airplane which people could visit and see what was inside. I am wondering whether they have been dismantled now. It was a sort of a Soviet Disneyland.

We also took our kids to VDNKh, on a beautiful day in summer. It really is lovely, for the kids but also for the adults.

If you are interested in rockets and space ships, you MUST go and visit the Cosmological Museum (also at VDNKh, where they have this high monument with a rocket on top).
It is totally renewed (never was there before but you could still smell the paint), and it is world top class!
You can see space suits, space food, equipment, models of rockets, actual sputniks, and a copy of the Mir Space Station. You can even go inside. It is very interesting. I was there a month ago with my eldest daughter, but she did not like it. The only thing that was of interest to her were the little dogs (stuffed animals) Bel`ka and Stryelka, the first dogs ever to go to space.
I think she did not like it, because she is a little girl.
As a little boy, I would have loved it...

Toro
20-10-2009, 23:29
I want to keep the Space Museum as the last treat for myself, as my head is spinning with the opportunities..:) To see the first Star Dogs with my own eyes! I know this might bounce time and again as a controversial subject whether the humans had any right to send the famous space rookies into the far open. But the glory will stay with them. I take as a granted that many Soviet pilots would remain unknown, their names made clandestine in the course of exhaustive quest, while select few heroes would make to the headlines haloing the joy of millions. I want to visit this place as someone attending a church, sorry for the comparison, to be awe-struck.

SV1973a
20-10-2009, 23:43
I want to visit this place as someone attending a church, sorry for the comparison, to be awe-struck.

You will NOT be disappointed. I could walk in this museum from the moment it opens in the morning till they close in the evening.
Other nice thing to know: if you want to try space food (yes, the food in tubes, just like tooth paste), you can do this at the museum. About 600 rub for a meal.
If you have kids, in December a new cartoon will come out about these two little dogs.

Moskauerin
21-10-2009, 20:40
For those interested in the cosmos topic I would suggest visiting this site:

- - (http://www.zvezdniygorodok.ru/) (available only in Russian)

It is an official site of Zvezdniy Gorodok located 30 km outside Moscow at Shchelkoskoye shosse. It is possible to visit the center where cosmonauts are trained and even to ride a centrifuge and experience the state of weightlessness!

The site has a link to an event agency that organises such tours. It may be rather expensive but I've heard that Moscow expats are very eager to visit it ad enjoy it very much. :)

I am not sure if I would venture the exotic tour myself (especially the centrifuge). :) I would limit myself to visiting the Museum of Cosmonautics at VDNKh at best.