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View Full Version : From Work Visa/Permit to PRP (via TRP?)



Bogatyr
03-10-2009, 08:32
I'm in a slightly different boat now regarding work visa/permit and TRP/PRP. I've been offered a position in my (US-based, fairly large international) company working in Moscow for 1-2 years as an expat employee. My company says they will do all the arrangements for the work visa and work permit (they say it will take about 3 months once I accept the offer until the Visa/Permit comes through, does that sound right? Could it take longer than that?).

I've been planning all along to just "retire" to Russia (St. Petersburg, actually) and do the TRP/PRP there (I have a Russian citizen wife, so no quota, and we own an apartment there in SPB), but with this offer it seems a great way to get my foot in the TRP/PRP door and keep a salary. Once the TRP comes through I can stay in the country even if the job dries up (although I assume I'd be tied to Moscow for up to 1 year since that's where I'd be getting the TRP), and after one year get the PRP.

My question is, assuming I have a 1-2 year work visa/permit, is applying for a TRP in any way "going backwards" in my goal of getting a PRP? If I have a work visa in my passport, what happens when the TRP comes through? I'm assuming the work visa has more in and out privileges than the TRP: which one applies when I want to leave and re-enter the country? Does the TRP in the passport supersede or cancel the work visa?

Is there a direct route to PRP via work visa/work permit? Or must one always go through TRP first?

What's the soonest one can apply for PRP after TRP? Is it one year after receipt of TRP or can you apply sooner than that?

I wasn't planning on taking this route, but now that it's an option I'd like to see if accepting this position in Moscow is a help or a hindrance to getting the PRP. It certainly solves the "you have to leave after 3 months" problem of doing the TRP on a business/personal visa.

What's the total elapsed time (typical case) for going from apply for TRP through receiving the PRP? 6 months wait for TRP, 1 year wait after receiving TRP before applying for PRP (?), then ??? wait for PRP? What's the timeline for that?

Is it possible (since the long term goal is to live in St Pete with a PRP) to get a TRP in St. Pete (since we own the apartment there) while actually living and working on a work visa / work permit in Moscow? Or must the TRP be done where the work permit is?

Bels
03-10-2009, 16:15
I don't think your situation is any different than many other expats here. First of all it all seems perfectly normal to me in regards to your work visa and work permit of which you will receive within three months. Your employer will help you in this area. So no worries here.

In the meantime you should imediately make preparations for the application of TRP. You should allow about 6 months for successful application. Your TRP stamp on the back of your passport will supersede any other visas including work visas, but not your work permit.

A TRP and PRP are definately better and more flixible than any other visa, as you never need to apply for a visa outside your country again. You can now apply for PRP in a few months after your TRP, especially if you have a young Russian child. Most difinately you can apply in one year. But there is no hurry as the TRP has a 3 year duration. The advantage of PRP is that your employer will have no need to apply for your work permit anymore. On TRP there is a lot less involved by your employer to keep you employed with them.

Of course there's just one blip on TRP. You must get a request form filled in at FMS to leave Russia, but it's no big deal unless you want to be out of the country more 6 months in a year.

Your question on your last paragraph might be the most difficult one for you to deal, but I am sure it can be sorted by FMS. You should apply for TRP where you are resident Your employer has no relevence in application for TRP.

Hence apply for TRP and PRP at your nearest FMS of where you are resident in St Petersbourg.


I'm in a slightly different boat now regarding work visa/permit and TRP/PRP. I've been offered a position in my (US-based, fairly large international) company working in Moscow for 1-2 years as an expat employee. My company says they will do all the arrangements for the work visa and work permit (they say it will take about 3 months once I accept the offer until the Visa/Permit comes through, does that sound right? Could it take longer than that?).

I've been planning all along to just "retire" to Russia (St. Petersburg, actually) and do the TRP/PRP there (I have a Russian citizen wife, so no quota, and we own an apartment there in SPB), but with this offer it seems a great way to get my foot in the TRP/PRP door and keep a salary. Once the TRP comes through I can stay in the country even if the job dries up (although I assume I'd be tied to Moscow for up to 1 year since that's where I'd be getting the TRP), and after one year get the PRP.

My question is, assuming I have a 1-2 year work visa/permit, is applying for a TRP in any way "going backwards" in my goal of getting a PRP? If I have a work visa in my passport, what happens when the TRP comes through? I'm assuming the work visa has more in and out privileges than the TRP: which one applies when I want to leave and re-enter the country? Does the TRP in the passport supersede or cancel the work visa?

Is there a direct route to PRP via work visa/work permit? Or must one always go through TRP first?

What's the soonest one can apply for PRP after TRP? Is it one year after receipt of TRP or can you apply sooner than that?

I wasn't planning on taking this route, but now that it's an option I'd like to see if accepting this position in Moscow is a help or a hindrance to getting the PRP. It certainly solves the "you have to leave after 3 months" problem of doing the TRP on a business/personal visa.

What's the total elapsed time (typical case) for going from apply for TRP through receiving the PRP? 6 months wait for TRP, 1 year wait after receiving TRP before applying for PRP (?), then ??? wait for PRP? What's the timeline for that?

Is it possible (since the long term goal is to live in St Pete with a PRP) to get a TRP in St. Pete (since we own the apartment there) while actually living and working on a work visa / work permit in Moscow? Or must the TRP be done where the work permit is?

Bels
03-10-2009, 16:26
Are you applying for your visa from your home country? If so the visa should can take 24 hours or less. In fact in London I used to get my visa on the sameday. Assuming you already have a written invitation from your employer of course. From that point your employer will help you the eventual receipt of your work permit.

Bogatyr
04-10-2009, 08:18
Your question on your last paragraph might be the most difficult one for you to deal, but I am sure it can be sorted by FMS. You should apply for TRP where you are resident Your employer has no relevence in application for TRP.

Hence apply for TRP and PRP at your nearest FMS of where you are resident in St Petersbourg.

Thanks for the suggestions. I received some off-line feedback offering the opinion that since the TRP ties you to live and work in the TRP region, that the SPB TRP would nullify the Moscow work permit (and wouldn't allow me to reside and work in Moscow ? )

Bels
04-10-2009, 14:02
Yes I have heard of that, and if that is the case that rule stinks. There must be a way around this problem, as surely as Russians you work as and where you please in Russia. Also there is a possibility that work issues and residency issues are separate. This is a problem that needs to be resolved. Surely there are those who are based in St petersbourg do business in Moscow and vice versa.

Bels
04-10-2009, 14:05
Hopefully you will quickly get PRP fairly quickly. And hopefully that removes all restrictions because you won't need a work permit anymore.

SV1973a
04-10-2009, 14:26
You can now apply for PRP in a few months after your TRP, especially if you have a young Russian child. Most difinately you can apply in one year.


Hi Bels,
Where did you get this info from. How many months after the TRP you can apply for PRP? Does having young Russian children have anything to do with this?

Bels
04-10-2009, 14:31
Hi Bels,
Where did you get this info from. How many months after the TRP you can apply for PRP? Does having young Russian children have anything to do with this?

Came from my wife when she was discussing and applying TRP on my behalf. They do give special concessions for those couples with Russian children.

Time is not absolutely whether it is within 3 months for some. Most definately all can apply after one your year, and must apply within three years.

SV1973a
04-10-2009, 14:50
Came from my wife when she was discussing and applying TRP on my behalf. They do give special concessions for those couples with Russian children.

Time is not absolutely whether it is within 3 months for some. Most definately all can apply after one your year, and must apply within three years.

Sounds to good to be true. Is this recent information? I guess this is not something official?

Bels
04-10-2009, 15:14
The only way to find out is that when you receive your TRP is to remind your FSO how long you have been married and that you have Russian children, and ask them how soon can you apply for PRP. If I could find you an official link with such wording I would do it.

SV1973a
04-10-2009, 23:54
The only way to find out is that when you receive your TRP is to remind your FSO how long you have been married and that you have Russian children, and ask them how soon can you apply for PRP. If I could find you an official link with such wording I would do it.

Thanks Bels.
Did you yourself already apply for PRP? If so, how much time after getting the TRP?

Bels
05-10-2009, 18:55
Not yet as I had no need and have had enough with the leg work of redtape, with TRP, entrepeneurs, license and registering and renting a classroom in a public building. It was all hassle and still is. However my three years will soon be up and I must apply for permanent very soon. Again my wife with our 3 year old son will have to do a lot of the legwork for me as I am busy teaching, We can't afford to lose income of which slow redtape can causes.

Any problems and I'll keep you posted. And of course what I hate most of all is that I have to go through all the medicals again. You would think once should enough, wouldn't you.

SV1973a
05-10-2009, 19:57
Not yet as I had no need and have had enough with the leg work of redtape, with TRP, entrepeneurs, license and registering and renting a classroom in a public building. It was all hassle and still is. However my three years will soon be up and I must apply for permanent very soon. Again my wife with our 3 year old son will have to do a lot of the legwork for me as I am busy teaching, We can't afford to lose income of which slow redtape can causes.

Any problems and I'll keep you posted. And of course what I hate most of all is that I have to go through all the medicals again. You would think once should enough, wouldn't you.

Strange that you did not apply for PRP earlier, as I suppose it really should have made your life easier. Interesting to know how long it will take from application to actually getting the PRP.

About the medicals, I actually think that for people coming from the 1st world, once is already one time to much. If in the western world someone gets diagnosed with TBC or lepra, it is news for national television (because the authorities will try to track down almost everybody that has been in contact with the patient, so as to avoid outbreak of the disease on a larger scale).

Bels
05-10-2009, 21:01
Strange that you did not apply for PRP earlier, as I suppose it really should have made your life easier. Interesting to know how long it will take from application to actually getting the PRP.

About the medicals, I actually think that for people coming from the 1st world, once is already one time to much. If in the western world someone gets diagnosed with TBC or lepra, it is news for national television (because the authorities will try to track down almost everybody that has been in contact with the patient, so as to avoid outbreak of the disease on a larger scale).

I don't know far you have got through yet, but believe me what we went through we were glad to have a rest and get on with our lives. Do you know how time consuming redtape can be here, especially when we have two children including one now hyperactive child of three years who needs a lot of attention. And fighting to gain income, redtape apparently doesn't care about time to work and enjoy time with family. Obviously you don't understand how time is very important for family to be together and earn a respectable living whilst we have demands of running around for them. Have you ever even picking up the telephone to them !! We are in Russia!! Not Britain where simply filling in one application form and posting it will do!! Ask the Russian local government. They will answer what's a telephone? What's an email, and where is the post.

Of course we were exhausted after temporary residency and entrepeneurs' license and renting public government space for classroom. Wee needed time for family and earning icome so we could provide tax revenue papers for PRP coming soon.

And not forgetting me running back and forth with visa control whilst applying.

So the final of all this is it's not easy for an expat married to a russian spouse with two children.

SV1973a
05-10-2009, 22:09
I don't know far you have got through yet, but believe me what we went through we were glad to have a rest and get on with our lives. Do you know how time consuming redtape can be here, especially when we have two children including one now hyperactive child of three years who needs a lot of attention. And fighting to gain income, redtape apparently doesn't care about time to work and enjoy time with family. Obviously you don't understand how time is very important for family to be together and earn a respectable living whilst we have demands of running around for them. Have you ever even picking up the telephone to them !! We are in Russia!! Not Britain where simply filling in one application form and posting it will do!! Ask the Russian local government. They will answer what's a telephone? What's an email, and where is the post.

Of course we were exhausted after temporary residency and entrepeneurs' license and renting public government space for classroom. Wee needed time for family and earning icome so we could provide tax revenue papers for PRP coming soon.

And not forgetting me running back and forth with visa control whilst applying.

So the final of all this is it's not easy for an expat married to a russian spouse with two children.


As a matter of fact, like you I do have lots of experience with Russian redtape. I have spent several days having all the medicals done, and even spent 3 days just for handing in the application form for TRP.
I have done this all by myself, did not even ask my wife to assist me.
You are right when you talk about the particularities of getting in contact with FMS. Little bit cynical actually, when FMS announced `IT-revolution`, when I thought they were finally going to make use of databases, to save time and efforts and to speed up things. Apparently, in their understanding, they were talking about holding video-conferences where you could ask questions to some high ranking FMS official...
Totally worthless of course.
The potential for modernisation in this country is enormous, but nobody sees it as a priority.

moscowbni
06-10-2009, 13:05
The only way to find out is that when you receive your TRP is to remind your FSO how long you have been married and that you have Russian children, and ask them how soon can you apply for PRP. If I could find you an official link with such wording I would do it.


I finished my TRP in Feb 09, and immediatly asked when was the earliest that I could apply for PRP (I mentioned my two Russian children), and they told me that I could only do it after one year of TRP...and the time to get the PRP would be the same as getting the TRP (about 6 months).

SV1973a
06-10-2009, 16:04
I finished my TRP in Feb 09, and immediatly asked when was the earliest that I could apply for PRP (I mentioned my two Russian children), and they told me that I could only do it after one year of TRP...and the time to get the PRP would be the same as getting the TRP (about 6 months).

Thanks Moscowbni,
I think you are right that the earliest you can apply is after 1 full year on TRP. Does not really matter what your family situation is.
I have heared though that the 6 months for PRP is the official time, but in practice, this can be a lot quicker.
I will get my TRP stamp at the end of this week. I just hope that in the year that I have to wait, the law will have changed to make it easier to get PRP and RF Citizenship for persons with Russian children.

dwandsv
16-10-2009, 21:34
As a matter of fact, like you I do have lots of experience with Russian redtape. I have spent several days having all the medicals done, and even spent 3 days just for handing in the application form for TRP.
I have done this all by myself, did not even ask my wife to assist me.
You are right when you talk about the particularities of getting in contact with FMS. Little bit cynical actually, when FMS announced `IT-revolution`, when I thought they were finally going to make use of databases, to save time and efforts and to speed up things. Apparently, in their understanding, they were talking about holding video-conferences where you could ask questions to some high ranking FMS official...
Totally worthless of course.
The potential for modernisation in this country is enormous, but nobody sees it as a priority.
I am interested to hear from Expats who have gone thru all that is necessary to live in Russia, including obtaining TRP, PRP and possibly even Russian citizenship. My main concern/ question is: If you had it to do all over again is it worth it, would you do it again? Is living in Russia worth all these obstacles? I want to try to convince my Russian wife that doing this, moving to and living in Russia is worth every bit of all things that need to be done to make it correct. At the moment I have not yet had ample opportunity to help her to see that continuing to live in America with it's declining economy is in our best interest. So then the one important thing I am concerned about is my Social Security and how it will suffice us to live in Russia when the dollar goes south and the US economy is in shamble and the dollar is only worth 20 cents. Obviously this will affect how many rubles we can acquire for our social security dollars (provided of course that Uncle Sam keeps Social Security in place). Beyond this if Social Security fails then how do we support ourselves in Russia? Or for that matter anywhere we choose to live. My wife is a native born Russian citizen and has lived there 99% of her life, only residing in America for 2 1/2 years. I have been working as an Architectural Technician and System Administrator for 15 years, maybe possibly I could get some type of work that has to do with computers? But obviously I need to learn Russian language much much better.

Bels
16-10-2009, 21:48
I am interested to hear from Expats who have gone thru all that is necessary to live in Russia, including obtaining TRP, PRP and possibly even Russian citizenship. My main concern/ question is: If you had it to do all over again is it worth it, would you do it again? Is living in Russia worth all these obstacles? I want to try to convince my Russian wife that doing this, moving to and living in Russia is worth every bit of all things that need to be done to make it correct. At the moment I have not yet had ample opportunity to help her to see that continuing to live in America with it's declining economy is in our best interest. So then the one important thing I am concerned about is my Social Security and how it will suffice us to live in Russia when the dollar goes south and the US economy is in shamble and the dollar is only worth 20 cents. Obviously this will affect how many rubles we can acquire for our social security dollars (provided of course that Uncle Sam keeps Social Security in place). Beyond this if Social Security fails then how do we support ourselves in Russia? Or for that matter anywhere we choose to live. My wife is a native born Russian citizen and has lived there 99% of her life, only residing in America for 2 1/2 years. I have been working as an Architectural Technician and System Administrator for 15 years, maybe possibly I could get some type of work that has to do with computers? But obviously I need to learn Russian language much much better.

Tough question. You do it because you have to. If you can keep your wife in USA and she is happy with that then that is the way. If you have built a new base in Russia you might dream of developing your life with a family from Russia to UK or USA or your homeland. All the pains you have in prevention of your family progressing respectably here in Russia, is now making my wife wish for another country. As progress for family appears to be a dirty word for many in Russia, or a potential to bribe some mony from you. That's the way it is here, apparently nobody expects ordinary families progressing here, as that's only allowed from the minimal amount of oligarchs.