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dwandsv
15-09-2009, 21:27
A few days ago I received an answer from the Seattle, Washington Consulate to this message I sent:

Dear Mr. Vinogradov

I am an American citizen, 60 years old and married to a Russian citizen in March 2007. In 2 years when I turn 62 I will take early retirement and my wife Svetlana and I are planning to live permanently in Barnaul, Russia; at which time my social security and other investment income will be our mode of living. This is her hometown and she still owns an apartment there in which 2 of her 4 daughters are now residing. The information I am reading online regarding visas and temporary & permanent residence permits (TRP & PRP) has me concerned. We do not want to be having any problems which causes me to return to America for even any short length of time as we our selling our home and all personal property here before we move. I understand that once I am in Russia I would acquire a 1 year TRP and near the end of this 1 year TRP I would apply for a 5 year PRP and thus every 5 years.

Will I be able to acquire a visa that would allow me to stay in Russia long enough to obtain the TRP & not have to do multiple exit & entrance trips via a type of visa? I have read that it takes up to 6 months to receive the TRP.

What are the requirements of me becoming a Russian citizen? I have read that when the time comes to renew the 5 year PRP that I must have in place my American passport that will not expire in under the 5 year span for which I am applying for the 5 year PRP.

If these questions are not for you would you please forward them to the appropriate individual, thank you so much for your time?

I have recently read on the website The Moscow Expat Forums :: Moscow's online community for expats and visitors (http://www.expat.ru/forum/) that I could possibly begin the TRP process while still here in America. Please confirm this and if it is so how do I go about acquiring the TRP and how much time before we move to Russia should I begin the TRP process?

Also I have looked on your website and I do not find information regarding this issue.

Thank you very much for your time.

They replied with the following message:

Dear Mr.Baker,

In reply to Your letter to Mr.Vinogradov we are sending You info regarding TRP in Russia. Unfortunately, it is in Russian.
You may apply for TRP with the required paperwork with the relevant Russian consulate in the U.S.A. Then these docs will be considered by FederaL Migration Service of the relevant Russian region and then a special directive to issue a TRP-visa will be send to the Consulate in the U.S.A. After a 1-year TRP You may apply for a 3-year PRP.
You may apply for Russian citizenship after staying in Russia according to PRP for 1 year if Your marriage with a Russian citizen lasts more than 3 years.
Sincerely,

Andrey Bondarev, consul, Russian Consulate General in Seattle

I have attached the files they sent, but in only 5 of the six have I provided translation to English (which has not been exactly verified for correctness, but should be close enough). When time permits I will translate & verify the 6th file and as well the other 5 files will be re-attached and will be verified.

I showed these files to my Russian wife and she only has one question. She wants to know a ballpark figure on the total cost to obtain TRP. Maybe the cost is different depending on whether it is obtained during one of 2 methods:
1) while living in USA and finish the necessary steps after arriving in Russia.
2) beginning the process only from Russia.

Notice that a special TRP visa can be obtained by method #1 if done in a timely manner prior to moving to Russia.

Also note they claim after the 1 year TRP you can apply for a 3 year PRP. Not sure about the validity of this claim; however, maybe they know something other than what we all have become accustomed to seeing on this forum regarding the PRP being available for 5 years.


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Bogatyr
16-09-2009, 02:42
A few days ago I received an answer from the Seattle, Washington Consulate to this message I sent:

... After a 1-year TRP You may apply for a 3-year PRP.
You may apply for Russian citizenship after staying in Russia according to PRP for 1 year if Your marriage with a Russian citizen lasts more than 3 years.

...


These numbers don't like right. The TRP is 3 years, the PRP is 5 years, and you can apply for citizenship I think 1 year after receiving TRP (assuming you've been married to a Russian spouse for 3+ years). Can anyone confirm / correct?

But it looks like it does confirm that you must apply for the TRP while in the USA if you don't want to do any "in & out" visa trips. Or, as some others have done, take a special trip to Russia before dumping your US real estate, do the TRP application, and then return to the US to wait for the approval.

It's a huge pain in any case, that's for sure. I'm thinking I'll try the Helsinki visa run since I'll be in St. Pete. (Has anyone done this 'recently'?)

IMHO it feels like you're exponentially increasing the complexity and the chances of things going wrong or becoming (very) delayed by applying through the consulate. The consulate probably does not deal with this request much, and it's another opportunity to have requirements above and beyond the law imposed on you. Nobody on this forum has reported attempting this path (at least no one's answered my requests for prior experience with this approach). At least you're exposing yourself to less apart time doing that, who knows maybe it would work perfectly?

In BeachBum's great "TRP for Dummies" he reported 3 trips to the FSM before the application was deemed complete & correct and was accepted. That's probably <= 1 day for each trip, not counting the overhead of gathering what was missing. How long would 3 round trips take if the documents had to go from you -> consulate -> Russia -> consulate -> you each time? That's relying on 4 additional handoffs and document transfers going perfectly each time.

dwandsv
16-09-2009, 13:25
Hello Bogatyr -

Points well taken, I will have to have additional correspondence to ascertain how to proceed, but one thing remains, how much to expect for the cost of receiving the TRP?

dwandsv
16-09-2009, 14:13
These numbers don't like right. The TRP is 3 years, the PRP is 5 years, and you can apply for citizenship I think 1 year after receiving TRP (assuming you've been married to a Russian spouse for 3+ years). Can anyone confirm / correct?

But it looks like it does confirm that you must apply for the TRP while in the USA if you don't want to do any "in & out" visa trips. Or, as some others have done, take a special trip to Russia before dumping your US real estate, do the TRP application, and then return to the US to wait for the approval.

It's a huge pain in any case, that's for sure. I'm thinking I'll try the Helsinki visa run since I'll be in St. Pete. (Has anyone done this 'recently'?)

IMHO it feels like you're exponentially increasing the complexity and the chances of things going wrong or becoming (very) delayed by applying through the consulate. The consulate probably does not deal with this request much, and it's another opportunity to have requirements above and beyond the law imposed on you. Nobody on this forum has reported attempting this path (at least no one's answered my requests for prior experience with this approach). At least you're exposing yourself to less apart time doing that, who knows maybe it would work perfectly?

In BeachBum's great "TRP for Dummies" he reported 3 trips to the FSM before the application was deemed complete & correct and was accepted. That's probably <= 1 day for each trip, not counting the overhead of gathering what was missing. How long would 3 round trips take if the documents had to go from you -> consulate -> Russia -> consulate -> you each time? That's relying on 4 additional handoffs and document transfers going perfectly each time.
Hello Bogatyr -

Also I see you say the TRP is 3 years, but isn't it actually 1 year?

Bels
16-09-2009, 14:25
The TRP has a maximum period of 3 years. However you can apply for PRP after 1 year.

Bels
16-09-2009, 14:31
This might be the beginning of a great thread. I would like to hear of successes of those applying for TRP from their own countries, such as USA or UK. I wonder how you deal with the listed medical checks for example. There doesn,t appear to be any of this info available in of the Russian consulate websites. Not even in Russian. If there was, we could always have it translated for all to see here on expat.ru.

dwandsv
16-09-2009, 21:19
This might be the beginning of a great thread. I would like to hear of successes of those applying for TRP from their own countries, such as USA or UK. I wonder how you deal with the listed medical checks for example. There doesn,t appear to be any of this info available in of the Russian consulate websites. Not even in Russian. If there was, we could always have it translated for all to see here on expat.ru.
Hello Bels -

I will watch this thread and supply any info I find regarding obtaining a TRP while residing in the US. Shown below is an email I sent to the Seattle Russian Consulate this morning.

Dear Mr. Bondarev –


Thank you so much for your help and the documents you sent in your previous email, which I am currently translating and becoming familiar with. My wife has seen these documents and she is wondering if it is possible to know a ballpark cost for acquiring the TRP visa and then the TRP once we are moved to Russia.

Attached is a word document I put together this morning which shows forum conversation from The Moscow Expat Forums :: Moscow's online community for expats and visitors (http://www.expat.ru/forum/) I have recently had regarding TRP. When you have time please read through the discourse shown in the attached document and let me know anything else I need to know based upon what you discover from the attached document.

Specifically I am concerned about:

1) Costs associated with acquisition of certain documents; this of course is dependant upon where such documents are coming from and obviously if there are costs associated with American government entities then I will find out those costs as I proceed, but if there are costs that the Russian Consulate must charge then you would know these. I assume as I read through the documents you sent earlier that any associated costs the Russian Consulate must charge may be indicated within and if not could you please advise about these costs?

2) The possibility of documents becoming increasingly complex and the chances of things going wrong or becoming (very) delayed as a result of the sending back and forth between the Russian Consulate in Seattle and the appropriate OVIR or whatever the correct term is for the government office in Barnaul, Russia where we would continue any future correspondence, communication and future personal visits regarding the final requirements for the TRP and ongoing requirements for the PRP and Russian citizenship.

Thank you so very much for any help and advice you can offer on this very important step in our plans to move permanently to Russia.

Bels
16-09-2009, 21:42
Hello Bels -

I will watch this thread and supply any info I find regarding obtaining a TRP while residing in the US. Shown below is an email I sent to the Seattle Russian Consulate this morning.

Dear Mr. Bondarev


Thank you so much for your help and the documents you sent in your previous email, which I am currently translating and becoming familiar with. My wife has seen these documents and she is wondering if it is possible to know a ballpark cost for acquiring the TRP visa and then the TRP once we are moved to Russia.

Attached is a word document I put together this morning which shows forum conversation from The Moscow Expat Forums :: Moscow's online community for expats and visitors (http://www.expat.ru/forum/) I have recently had regarding TRP. When you have time please read through the discourse shown in the attached document and let me know anything else I need to know based upon what you discover from the attached document.

Specifically I am concerned about:

1) Costs associated with acquisition of certain documents; this of course is dependant upon where such documents are coming from and obviously if there are costs associated with American government entities then I will find out those costs as I proceed, but if there are costs that the Russian Consulate must charge then you would know these. I assume as I read through the documents you sent earlier that any associated costs the Russian Consulate must charge may be indicated within and if not could you please advise about these costs?

2) The possibility of documents becoming increasingly complex and the chances of things going wrong or becoming (very) delayed as a result of the sending back and forth between the Russian Consulate in Seattle and the appropriate OVIR or whatever the correct term is for the government office in Barnaul, Russia where we would continue any future correspondence, communication and future personal visits regarding the final requirements for the TRP and ongoing requirements for the PRP and Russian citizenship.

Thank you so very much for any help and advice you can offer on this very important step in our plans to move permanently to Russia.

A little bit heavy on English for someone who is definately using English as a second language? You will certainly have this guy's brain on overload :)

However I look forward to this progressing, as my guess is that it will be very long if there is strong interest in this subject. It should well be , as many expats must be very tired of the alternative to rush back and forth to each country every 90 days. We are all looking for something more simple and straightforward.

If only red tape left things well alone ten years ago, we would not have such problems. Apparently TRP and and PRP was much quicker and simpler then. From that time we had Russias spouses with Russian and English passports no problem. I know this from my students ad customers.

So let's simplify matters and eventually edit this potentially long thread as the Dummie's way to get residency in Russia from your home country.

Beachbum's idea of phrase, and a good one :)

dwandsv
02-10-2009, 15:42
A little bit heavy on English for someone who is definately using English as a second language? You will certainly have this guy's brain on overload :)

However I look forward to this progressing, as my guess is that it will be very long if there is strong interest in this subject. It should well be , as many expats must be very tired of the alternative to rush back and forth to each country every 90 days. We are all looking for something more simple and straightforward.

If only red tape left things well alone ten years ago, we would not have such problems. Apparently TRP and and PRP was much quicker and simpler then. From that time we had Russias spouses with Russian and English passports no problem. I know this from my students ad customers.

So let's simplify matters and eventually edit this potentially long thread as the Dummie's way to get residency in Russia from your home country.

Beachbum's idea of phrase, and a good one :)
I am not sure where this post should go and so because it is somewhat related to obtaining TRP I decided to post here.
The last time I visited here was 9/16, and then to edit a recent post. Since this time my wife and I have visited with Russian friends here who have been here since 2000, emigrated from Moscow. My wife is extremely concerned that I would have many problems living in and adjusting to life in Barnaul, Russia. Her concerns center around the healthcare system in Russia and my lack of knowing the Russian language so that should I need healthcare I may not be able to explain what any problems are, how I feel etcetera. Also she is concerned that should she pre-decease me I would be left alone and unable to cope with life there. Obviously she very much loves me and for this I am eternally grateful, but no matter where you live in this world there are risks. For her to continue to live in America she also has risks and concerns, but she places a greater weight on the concerns for me living in Russia than she does living in America. One thing she hints at as being the one reason we would move to Barnaul is my social security pension will go alot farther there than it will in America. If we do decide to move to Russia surely as time goes by it will become easier as I learn more of the language and become accustomed to living in Barnaul. Another thing she is very concerned about is that the great fluctuations in temperature and the severe winters will have a detrimental effect on our overall health.
My recent posts had to do with the messgae I sent to the Russian consulate in Seattle, Washington. I have not heard anything from them as of today, Oct 2, 2009. Why is it that so many people think that living in America is much better than living in Russia? Surely there must be good reason for so many expats to be moving to and wanting to live in Russia. I have noticed though that the greatest majority are in Moscow and St. Pertersburg, but cost of living in these 2 locales is considerably greater than in Barnaul. Obviously if my wife were from a location other than Barnaul as in Moscow or St. Petersburg or another then perhaps she would be more familiar with cost of living in those locales, but such is not the case and therefore she can only speak of what she knows for certainty regarding Barnaul.
When I receive info from the Seattle consulate I will post here. I may not be visiting as often simply because my wife currently is leaning toward living in America, but I suspect that notion will one day soon come crashing down as we discover the true cost of retiring in the location we are currently looking at, which is being written about on the internet as the number one location for retiring in America solely based upon cost of living as far as I can tell this is what they are claiming.
Welcome to Greater Binghamton - Home of Innovation (http://www.greaterbinghamton.com/)
My deepest desire to live in Russia has not been squelched, only hopefully temporarily on hold and a wait to see mode.

skiff
06-11-2009, 21:54
The Consulate of Rf in Seattle is quite helpful, however bear in mind that the Ministry of Foreign Affiars (whic the Consulate belongs to) and FMS are different structures. Submitting the paperwork for TRP in US will require a lot of translations, apostiles, etc. which don't come cheap. Every page that is not in Russian will require the translation, notarization and apostile. Then there is uncertain wait period (although the Consulate will state 2 month as it's written in the law). The faster way it to obtain the business visa (or any other type) and start the process in Russia. Less translations and apostiles, easier and cheaper to get the medical certificates and so on. If you were married in Russia, the only US document you will need to obtain, apostiled and translate is FBI record (and may bethe proof of your income). I've done so and the whole process took 2 weeks in Russia from start to finish (and few hundred bucks for translation, notarization and medical services). FMS stated 4 months of waiting time upon acceptance of my documents. You will need to leave the country durind this period as even business visa does not allow stays greater then 90 days in the row.

Bels
06-11-2009, 22:24
I am not sure where this post should go and so because it is somewhat related to obtaining TRP I decided to post here.
The last time I visited here was 9/16, and then to edit a recent post. Since this time my wife and I have visited with Russian friends here who have been here since 2000, emigrated from Moscow. My wife is extremely concerned that I would have many problems living in and adjusting to life in Barnaul, Russia. Her concerns center around the healthcare system in Russia and my lack of knowing the Russian language so that should I need healthcare I may not be able to explain what any problems are, how I feel etcetera. Also she is concerned that should she pre-decease me I would be left alone and unable to cope with life there. Obviously she very much loves me and for this I am eternally grateful, but no matter where you live in this world there are risks. For her to continue to live in America she also has risks and concerns, but she places a greater weight on the concerns for me living in Russia than she does living in America. One thing she hints at as being the one reason we would move to Barnaul is my social security pension will go alot farther there than it will in America. If we do decide to move to Russia surely as time goes by it will become easier as I learn more of the language and become accustomed to living in Barnaul. Another thing she is very concerned about is that the great fluctuations in temperature and the severe winters will have a detrimental effect on our overall health.
My recent posts had to do with the messgae I sent to the Russian consulate in Seattle, Washington. I have not heard anything from them as of today, Oct 2, 2009. Why is it that so many people think that living in America is much better than living in Russia? Surely there must be good reason for so many expats to be moving to and wanting to live in Russia. I have noticed though that the greatest majority are in Moscow and St. Pertersburg, but cost of living in these 2 locales is considerably greater than in Barnaul. Obviously if my wife were from a location other than Barnaul as in Moscow or St. Petersburg or another then perhaps she would be more familiar with cost of living in those locales, but such is not the case and therefore she can only speak of what she knows for certainty regarding Barnaul.
When I receive info from the Seattle consulate I will post here. I may not be visiting as often simply because my wife currently is leaning toward living in America, but I suspect that notion will one day soon come crashing down as we discover the true cost of retiring in the location we are currently looking at, which is being written about on the internet as the number one location for retiring in America solely based upon cost of living as far as I can tell this is what they are claiming.
Welcome to Greater Binghamton - Home of Innovation (http://www.greaterbinghamton.com/)
My deepest desire to live in Russia has not been squelched, only hopefully temporarily on hold and a wait to see mode.

Boy! You have made some very good points. You will need your wife's assistance a lot here. At times you feel completely useless and your wife will have to be with you or act on your behalf. If you have work here that are seeking your qualities of speaking English whatever profession, you will be OK. But red-tape and medical care you will need the assistance of your wife all the time. Unless of course you have the financial resources of always using expat expats. Yes whatever!! You need to stick together on this one. You and your wife will always need to be a very close team.