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SV1973a
28-08-2009, 18:19
Soon I will receive my Temporary Residence Permit.
In January 2010, my Work Permit will expire, and so will my company`s Employment Permission.
So, basically, my company will need to start applying for the renewal of their Employment Permission and my Work Permit. This takes 2-3 months if all goes well.
But then, we all know that the quota for work permits for next year has been halved from 500000 to 250000, so it might not go well...

However, I have been told that one of the benefits of having the TRP is:
1. that you can apply for a Work Permit yourself (without involvement of your company) out of quota, and that it takes only 2 weeks.
2. that your company no longer needs the Employment Permit to employ you.

Can anybody confirm whether this is true ?

Does anybody know which documents you need to present to FMS to get your WP if you have a TRP?

Bels
28-08-2009, 19:55
I don't know if this is of any help, but I do believe that the FMS website has much improved and some of it is in English. It would be helpful if you have the latest internet explorer with google toolbar permanently set on tranlating all Russian to English if your Russian is poor. Translated piece has been pasted below which may be of use to you. Copied from the FMS website: . (http://www.fmsmoscow.ru/trudmigration.php)

For advice on matters relating to labor migration, ie processing of work permits, contact: Bolshaya Ordynka, 16, p.4, or by phone: 8-499-230-1018

The distribution of admission to the department of labor migration
Federal Migration Service of Russia in Moscow

Novinsky Boulevard, Building 11
- Acceptance of documents from organizations in the design and permits to employ foreign employees and work permits, and issuance of permits made to attract and use foreign workers and work permits, who arrived in Russia in a manner requiring a visa
- Acceptance of documents from organizations in the design of work permits to foreign nationals, as well as the issuance of permits made to work, arriving to Russia in a manner not requiring a visa, who have passed the documents on electronic media
- Acceptance of documents for registration of work permits to foreign nationals granted permission for temporary residence in Moscow.
St. Most Ordynka, Building 16, p. 4
- Receipt of medical records confirming the absence of, foreign nationals diseases of public danger, provided the list approved by the RF Government,
- Receiving notification of the attraction and use for employment of foreign citizens arriving in Russia in a manner not requiring a visa.

Grafskiy lane 12a p.1
- From organizations in the established order of employment of foreign nationals
- From individual entrepreneurs,
- From the authorized representatives of foreign nationals

Bels
28-08-2009, 19:59
On all matters regarding the FMS This is the much improved site. Advise that you use the google toolbar for translation if you feel it's necessary

. (http://www.fmsmoscow.ru/rvp_text.php?nid=31&)

BeachBum
28-08-2009, 20:15
I don't know if this is of any help, but I do believe that the FMS website has much improved and some of it is in English. It would be helpful if you have the latest internet explorer with google toolbar permanently set on tranlating all Russian to English if your Russian is poor. Translated piece has been pasted below which may be of use to you. Copied from the FMS website: . (http://www.fmsmoscow.ru/trudmigration.php)

For advice on matters relating to labor migration, ie processing of work permits, contact: Bolshaya Ordynka, 16, p.4, or by phone: 8-499-230-1018

The distribution of admission to the department of labor migration
Federal Migration Service of Russia in Moscow

Novinsky Boulevard, Building 11
- Acceptance of documents from organizations in the design and permits to employ foreign employees and work permits, and issuance of permits made to attract and use foreign workers and work permits, who arrived in Russia in a manner requiring a visa
- Acceptance of documents from organizations in the design of work permits to foreign nationals, as well as the issuance of permits made to work, arriving to Russia in a manner not requiring a visa, who have passed the documents on electronic media
- Acceptance of documents for registration of work permits to foreign nationals granted permission for temporary residence in Moscow.
St. Most Ordynka, Building 16, p. 4
- Receipt of medical records confirming the absence of, foreign nationals diseases of public danger, provided the list approved by the RF Government,
- Receiving notification of the attraction and use for employment of foreign citizens arriving in Russia in a manner not requiring a visa.

Grafskiy lane 12a p.1
- From organizations in the established order of employment of foreign nationals
- From individual entrepreneurs,
- From the authorized representatives of foreign nationals

Bels I am not quite following your train of thought. Do you see info on this site that establishes that persons with TRP can apply for the work permit without the company?

Cubrilo
29-08-2009, 12:40
However, I have been told that one of the benefits of having the TRP is:
1. that you can apply for a Work Permit yourself (without involvement of your company) out of quota, and that it takes only 2 weeks.
2. that your company no longer needs the Employment Permit to employ you

This is partially true: you are not exempt from quota in this case. The rest is true.

Bels
29-08-2009, 15:30
I can't understand the purpose of a work permit if you don't need an employer to apply for permission. They would simply state that you don't need a work permit. It is all very silly that a someone who has permission to reside here should need a work permit, especially when they demand a tax report at the end of the year. It's all really wierd.

All I can suggest is that anyone who has a TRP phone the above number as offered by the FMS. Alternatively for the person when finding an employer to ask the employer to phone the above number. I know for sure you no llonger have to leave the country to get a work visa. It should be a very straightforward matter for someone with a TRP

I know that I can apply for a work permit, as I have got an entrepeneur's license. But why would I need to employ myself?

I also know that you do not need a work permit once you have permanent residence.

Bels
29-08-2009, 15:41
So the direct answer to SV1973 s question is to phone the above quoted telephone number directly to the person that specialises in this area, and you will get your answers. It is a department of the FMS.


Soon I will receive my Temporary Residence Permit.
In January 2010, my Work Permit will expire, and so will my company`s Employment Permission.
So, basically, my company will need to start applying for the renewal of their Employment Permission and my Work Permit. This takes 2-3 months if all goes well.
But then, we all know that the quota for work permits for next year has been halved from 500000 to 250000, so it might not go well...

However, I have been told that one of the benefits of having the TRP is:
1. that you can apply for a Work Permit yourself (without involvement of your company) out of quota, and that it takes only 2 weeks.
2. that your company no longer needs the Employment Permit to employ you.

Can anybody confirm whether this is true ?

Does anybody know which documents you need to present to FMS to get your WP if you have a TRP?

SV1973a
30-08-2009, 12:20
This is partially true: you are not exempt from quota in this case. The rest is true.

Another source told me that if you have the TRP you are out of the quota for work permissions.

I will check with FMS, and let you guys know.

Bels
30-08-2009, 12:32
Another source told me that if you have the TRP you are out of the quota for work permissions.

I will check with FMS, and let you guys know.

Thankyou, as that would be very interesting. And if this is the case, it would be interesting to know why Russian legislation bothers to restrict temporary residents with work permits in the first place.

I would also like to know why some members with just a business visa think they can simply walk into a government office and ask for a work permit without the invitation of an employer. I do believe that if there was such a permit that you could switch and choose any employer you desire, there wouldn't be a need for a work permit in the first place.

Bels
30-08-2009, 12:39
My belief is that although a TRP needs a work permit, it's a fairly quick straight forward procedure in comparison to those who come here with a visa. I am personally not employed but self employed. And I went through a different procedure of applying for Entrepeneurs license. My Russian wife assisted me with the application.

If I wanted to work freelance for several companies, I could do so legally. I have my personal stamp of which an entrepeneur must have to issue my own legal receipts and invoices.

fidel
31-08-2009, 13:41
Unless you are from one of the CIS countries, your company has to apply for your work permit. You should apply for 2010's quota before the end of this year.

Bels
31-08-2009, 13:47
That's what I have thought all along. Could you put that up in big print for all to see please. However it would be interesting if we can get another matter cleared up. For those with TRP. are they exempt from the quota system or not?As I can't see the point of needing a work permit if you are exempt from quota. In fact I can't understand the logic in why TRP holders are obliged to have work permits. It's cloud cuckoo land to me.

SV1973a
31-08-2009, 20:30
I still haven`t been able to get in touch FMS. There line is constantly busy (or else they just don`t pick up the phone).
Anyway, I called a well known visa agency, and they told me that as foreign citizen with TRP, I can apply for the WP (out of the quota) by myself.
My company does not need to apply for a WP, neither for a special permission to employ me.
Required documents are :
- application form
- notarised translation of passport with the page that holds the TRP stamp
- notarised translation of diploma
- payment of 1000 RUR

NO medical tests!!!

Should also be a lot quicker than for people here on work visa.

Bels
31-08-2009, 21:38
I have to totally agree with you. There is a very good impression coming from this website, and a poll asking what you think of their service. My wife has had dealing with FMS on my behalf for the past five years and nothing has changed. When you contact such a number nobody will answer, it is not engaged!! But when you rearely do manage to get through eventually, it's the same old thing. Visit them as they cannot discuss matters on the telephone. Constant visits, no emails , no email forms, absolutely nothing. Everything done with personal visits. So the Russian way, hatred of anything in speed. Personal sorting out only. I had hoped mthings would have changed, and if you read the Moscow Times, things have changed for the better. Totally and absolutely wrong!!

So FMS. You have a much improved site. Perhaps now you could behave in the impression you arte trying to create. You could start by answering the telephone and giving direct helpful answers without the requirement of visits. You could also offer application forms to download and post by internet, and an email service for all these enquiries.

fidel
01-09-2009, 10:22
SV1973a,

My HR lady has just gone through the process of getting me us the quota for two employees for 2010 (Both of us have TRP). Don't take the risk believing some agency when push comes to shove agencies will simply waste your time. We do all applications through UFMS ourselves. We have gone through agencies more than once and failed. The self application only refers to CIS citizens and some special groups such as "self-employed" people such as teachers and so forth who bill for their services. I f you are employed by a company and receive a slary officially, and are not a citizen of a CIS country, YOU NEED A WORK PERMIT and you have to apply for the quota. Don't risk it as you will only find out when you or your company is hit with a 800,000 Rouble fine.

IGIT
01-09-2009, 10:27
1- Was the TRP given through the quota system? If Yes, then maybe you do need to apply for a work permit via the quota system.
2- If No, then you can actually apply for a work permit yourself and it generally takes 2 weeks, which can be renewed as long as your TRP is valid.

Bels
01-09-2009, 12:31
SV1973a,

My HR lady has just gone through the process of getting me us the quota for two employees for 2010 (Both of us have TRP). Don't take the risk believing some agency when push comes to shove agencies will simply waste your time. We do all applications through UFMS ourselves. We have gone through agencies more than once and failed. The self application only refers to CIS citizens and some special groups such as "self-employed" people such as teachers and so forth who bill for their services. I f you are employed by a company and receive a slary officially, and are not a citizen of a CIS country, YOU NEED A WORK PERMIT and you have to apply for the quota. Don't risk it as you will only find out when you or your company is hit with a 800,000 Rouble fine.


You are scariing me! Most of us believe that with PRP you don't need a work premit! But you are stating that if you are not a citizen, you need a work permit. On the website of the FSB I have shown above, it invites those with TRP to make enquiries to make enquiries about work permits, It doesn't mention that those with PRP need to make enquiries. Hopefully you simply forgot about PRP when mentioning that only a citizen doesn't need a work permit.

fidel
01-09-2009, 14:16
I meant if you are a TRP holder and a citizen of a CIS country. PRP holders don't need a work permit.

To answer the previous question, I received TRP without going through the quota system. You guys are confusing "Self-Employment" with "Employment by a UFMS approved company". I would gladly not apply for a work permit if I didn't have to but can't risk it especially being the company signatory.

Bels
01-09-2009, 14:29
Sorry to be such a pest but I really must question this statement of having a PRP and being a citizen at the same time.

There does appear to some and it would be nice to be truly sorted out once and for all.

Can a TRP who didn't need quota apply for a work permit himself without having an employer to do it for him. And does this mean he has the oppurtunity to choose any employer as and when he wants to. I'm not so sure he can. I do believe all employers, international or Russian must apply for permission to employ a foreign expat.

For Permanent residents that are not citizens of Russia I do beleive they don't need a work permit.

I do believe that an employer either needs to be a company or an entrepeneur to hire a foreigner who needs a visa. There are exception involved with CIS citizens

SV1973a
01-09-2009, 15:28
This is what I found in the Q&A section of the FMS Moscow site.

Мой муж (я, гражданка РФ), гражданин Латвии so he is not from CIS, получив разрешение на временное проживание в Москве he holds TRP, в связи с приостановлением выдачи разрешений на работу, не может устроиться на постоянную работу. Какой выход из создавшейся ситуации?

В соответствии с Федеральным законом от 25 июля 2002 года № 115 – ФЗ О правовом положении иностранных граждан в Российской Федерации и разъяснениями ФМС России о порядке привлечения к осуществлению трудовой деятельности иностранных граждан, получивших статус временно проживающих на территории Российской Федерации, ваш муж может самостоятельно получить разрешение на работу you can apply for the WP yourself без учета квот out of the quota, но не более чем на 1 год, с правом его ежегодного продления также не более чем на 1 год, в течение срока действия у него разрешения на временное проживание. Работодатель привлекает и использует для осуществления трудовой деятельности лиц, имеющих статус временно проживающих, без получения разрешения на их привлечение и использование. company does not need permission to employ people with TRP

If this is correct (I know it is coming from the FMS website but that is still no guarantee) than with TRP you can apply for WP, out of the quota, and your employer does not need a permit to employ you.
I am still trying to call FMS, but unsuccessfully.

fidel
01-09-2009, 16:21
I am sorry when I used the Term CIS, it was what most of us understand as former Soviet Republics or allies. The whole structure has changed. There are two classifications in UFMS <blizhehnaya Zarubesh> which refers to former soviet reps. and affiliated countries and <Dalnaya Zarubesh> which refers to the rest of the world (Western Europe, Asia, Africa, the States, Australia and so on). Latvia is part of <blizhehnaya Zarubesh> so your husband can apply for the work permit himself and be employed by any company without the company applying for permission. This law does not apply to <Dalnaya Zarubesh> people. So looks like you have no problems...........Unlike most of us from <Dalnaya Zarubesh>.

SV1973a
01-09-2009, 16:37
Mind you, I am also from the `Far Abroad`.
The text was taken from the FMS site, and was obviously written by a Russian woman for her husband from the Baltics. That is not my case.

There indeed is a difference in processing TRP applications of `Near abroad` and `Far abroad` people. But I would think that once you get the TRP, all discriminations should be over with.

Still, an interesting issue. Hope to be able to get through to FMS and hear from them.

fidel
01-09-2009, 17:07
The discrimination does not stop....You can be sure of that. I went through the process, even met with Dudnikov, the head of the Quota dept. and finally am going through the work permit application.

tgma
02-09-2009, 16:11
I think Latvia counts as Far Abroad, because it's an EU accession country, and not part of the CIS.
That said, if you were an ethnic Russian, with a Latvian passport, presumably you get much more friendly treatment from the FMS than an ethnic Latvian would get.

tasha3004
20-09-2009, 15:40
Companies have to apply for their CIS employees as well starting from this year again. 2010 application for quotas had to be submitted before May this year.

tasha3004
20-09-2009, 15:46
SV1973a,

My HR lady has just gone through the process of getting me us the quota for two employees for 2010 (Both of us have TRP). Don't take the risk believing some agency when push comes to shove agencies will simply waste your time. We do all applications through UFMS ourselves. We have gone through agencies more than once and failed. The self application only refers to CIS citizens and some special groups such as "self-employed" people such as teachers and so forth who bill for their services. I f you are employed by a company and receive a slary officially, and are not a citizen of a CIS country, YOU NEED A WORK PERMIT and you have to apply for the quota. Don't risk it as you will only find out when you or your company is hit with a 800,000 Rouble fine.

CIS citizens can no longer apply themselves for WORK PERMIT as their company needs to have quota to employ them since this year!!!

tasha3004
20-09-2009, 15:49
You are scariing me! Most of us believe that with PRP you don't need a work premit! But you are stating that if you are not a citizen, you need a work permit. On the website of the FSB I have shown above, it invites those with TRP to make enquiries to make enquiries about work permits, It doesn't mention that those with PRP need to make enquiries. Hopefully you simply forgot about PRP when mentioning that only a citizen doesn't need a work permit.

PRP holders don't need to apply for Work Permit.

Bels
20-09-2009, 15:56
PRP holders don't need to apply for Work Permit.

I know and have never denied it :)

Bels
20-09-2009, 16:12
Surely the major issue here is whether someone with TRP will have a problem being employed by their company. And I think that the answer to that question is NO! No more having to leave the country to renew your visa. Which employer will refuse a TRP? Have you found one? Because I haven't. Of course it's difficult for any employer to employ someone who simply holds a business visa.

If a TRP resident does find a problem becoming employed, another option may well be to get an entrepeneur's licence and become a freelancer for that company. You are legally entitled to do that.

And besides, after one year you can get your PRP and you won't need a work permit with anyone.

SV1973a
07-10-2009, 16:44
Today, I went to visit the UFMS at Bolshaya Ordynka. On the FMSMoscow website it is written that these are the ones that can consult about Work Permits. According to the site they work every day of the week from 9h30 till 17h10.

When I got there, this did not turn out to be correct.
They have moved to Grafskiy Pereulok dom 12a building 1 near Metro Alekseevskaya. They also have new numbers : 8 495 785 10 39 and 8 499 785 10 39.
They do not work on Wednesdays!

That is a possible explanation why nobody ever answers these `hot line` phone numbers.

Why don`t they put such important info on their site remains a mystery.

ezik
23-10-2009, 14:28
Are there any updates on this? Would be nice to know if TRP holders can apply for a WP without ties to a company...

@Bels: how difficult/expensive is it to obtain this entrepreneur's license? What docs etc are required?

SV1973a
23-10-2009, 14:51
Hi Ezik,
I went to the central FMS that deals with WPs. I asked what documents do I need (and explained that I am a foreign national with a TRP out of the quota). The answer was :
- copy of passport and of the page with the TRP in it
- some pictures
- application form

NO talks about :
- any link to your employer
- medical tests

Yet again, I did not get my TRP stamp in the passport today (still no answer from some central FMS). I need to call them again on Monday.
I immediately intend to do this procedure for the WP, so I will write about my experiences on this forum.

Bels
23-10-2009, 15:54
Medicals I'd assume that's because you have just been through that. Logical you would think. But you have to do it all again for permanent.

Hi Ezik,
I went to the central FMS that deals with WPs. I asked what documents do I need (and explained that I am a foreign national with a TRP out of the quota). The answer was :
- copy of passport and of the page with the TRP in it
- some pictures
- application form

NO talks about :
- any link to your employer
- medical tests

Yet again, I did not get my TRP stamp in the passport today (still no answer from some central FMS). I need to call them again on Monday.
I immediately intend to do this procedure for the WP, so I will write about my experiences on this forum.

Bels
23-10-2009, 22:43
In regards to those who have an interest in Entrepreneurs license. This is useful because it gives you the responsibility of paying taxes in Russia. Normally 6% of your total turnover. This license is useful for those who want to be self employed or to act as freelance work for their company. There might also be an advantage for some with the 6% tax. However you may well not have same deals such as health cover and accommodation
With such an arrangement.

There is another scheme but it all depends on your business. This is the scheme of which my wife and I have chosen. You will receive a list into which profession or business you chose to be. Remember this is a form designed for individual entrepreneurs or small partnerships. Not major companies as that is another more complicated direction.

When we started we visited the Odentsova Tax office, our regional are tax office. We found it most confusing with queues of people in different doors. Asking around in different areas we could not find the right office where to get the application for Entrepeneurs license. We saw long queues everywhere with some of the doors they were holding many documents obviously for more than one person. They were obviously couriers and we gave up. First of all we were not sure of which line of people to join, and we were also certain that we might not get anywhere being at the end of the queue.

So we found a local accountant to help us, this accountant only serves the Rublevka or the Odintsova area. She has a courier who will queue up for you and get your application sorted out. She will have the Entrepreneurs application form for you to fill in and will give you you full give you full guidance on what to do next.

So what do you need for the license? Your passport properly translated. The application form. two passport pictures. You will will be sent to a specified lawyer to verify you from your identity, passport and photograph. If you want to jump the queue to see this lawyer rather than wait several hours do so, and offer him an extra few thousand roubles. It works and its the Russian way.

Anything else. YES. Purchase your stamps on completion. The stamps have your number and identity for you to givr that much wanted receipt or invoice to a company.


I think I will paste this also on new thread, as it is separate and may be considered as an option for those who want to be employed.

fidel
06-11-2009, 12:00
I just received my WP after getting TRP. It is a red one.......which allows me to work in the position stated on the card in ANY company in Moscow. Unlike the blue card before ( most of you may remember which stated the company name, and restricted work only in the stated company). This is due to the fact that we have three years registration. I also applied and received the quota for 2010......which I was informed is still needed but who knows, they will probably change the laws five times before next September.

SV1973a
06-11-2009, 12:15
Congratulations Fidel.
Can you share with us what are the tips and tricks to get the WP.
Did you do the application all by yourself or with an agent ?
Did you need to retake the medical tests ?
How much time between application and receiving ?
Is there any mentioning on your WP of your job function ?
Did you need to present an apostilled diploma with translation ?

fidel
06-11-2009, 15:52
Congratulations Fidel.
Can you share with us what are the tips and tricks to get the WP.
Did you do the application all by yourself or with an agent ?
Did you need to retake the medical tests ?
How much time between application and receiving ?
Is there any mentioning on your WP of your job function ?
Did you need to present an apostilled diploma with translation ?

-I had My Hr lady do the application forms.....
-No need to retake medical exams if you are applying within 3 months of receipt of TRP...
-It took about 2 months because we had to wait 30 days for the quota.....we got the plastic card a few days after application
-Yes my Job title is mentioned on the card but not place of employment....Just says any company in Moscow.
-I didn't have to present the appostilled Diploma....She just showed my previous work permit (expired one)

Hope this helps you!

Bels
06-11-2009, 16:30
-I had My Hr lady do the application forms.....
-No need to retake medical exams if you are applying within 3 months of receipt of TRP...
-It took about 2 months because we had to wait 30 days for the quota.....we got the plastic card a few days after application
-Yes my Job title is mentioned on the card but not place of employment....Just says any company in Moscow.
-I didn't have to present the appostilled Diploma....She just showed my previous work permit (expired one)

Hope this helps you!

Yikes! So you need to do medicals all over again if you apply for WP after three months of having TRP?

And if you didn't have a work permit in the past you will need to show appostilled qualifications?

How long does the work permit last, before you have to apply for another. Hopefully three years, and that means you will have permanent by then, and won't need a work permit.

It appears the entrepeneurs' path is a lot less hassle. No medicals and no request for appostilled qualifications. And no re-registering.

fidel
09-11-2009, 10:30
Unfortunately the WP lasts only for a year and before renewing it for the following year you should have the quota......I am hoping to apply for PRP before my WP finishes next year but not holding my breath as we all know that it would probably be delayed.

alex679
02-01-2010, 21:45
After i recieved my TRP the people at the FMS told me that my employer needs to apply for my work permit. Although this was in Yaroslavskaya oblst.