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mattology
18-08-2009, 13:47
Dear members,

don't know if this is the right section. Please excuse if not and move it to the right section.

I've been employed in Moscow on a local contract since last September, stating in my contract that I have 28 calendar days available for vacation. My personnel department is nothing close to professional in actually tracking those days, letting me know how I can take them, that's why I really need some precise information. Best would be to have weblink in Russian/English to prove what I am granted officially, backed by RF law.

To my info, I'm advised / obliged to take min 2 weeks per year in a row, but also weekends count, leaving me with 14 calendar days left per year.

Does this mean, I can take those 14 remaining days like I want, or do I also have to count weekends? In other words, do I have 20 or 24 working days vacation?

My personnel office says I have 20, but if I take 14 days in a row, and consider that I can take the rest = 14 days, like I want them, this would leave me with 24. If I have to count weekends, it would leave me 20 days only... (Mo-Fr.)

I'm really confused...

Swordfish90293
18-08-2009, 18:04
Be confused, be very confused...my experience with Russian firms is that contracts mean nothing...meaning anything goes...meaning usually the agreement you made isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The upside is that you can negotiate impromptu another arrangement as long as you have the hear of someone who can enable a change...

GLUCK

dimitri
19-08-2009, 10:04
I'm really confused...

Yes, vacation issues are really confusing. However in reality it's very simple.

There is one important document that is missing in your story: schedule of vacations. Schedule of vacations is the only legal document that defines who and when goes on vacation. It must be approved in the beginning of the year for every employee. In other words, you must make plans for your vacation one year ahead, and agree this plan with your employer. Employer is nog obligated to give you the dates you want and if they do not agree with vacation dates you request, the only way to fix it is to discuss with them and find compromice.

Ones schedule of vacation is fixed, you must go on vacation only within dates specified in that schedule. Employer has the right to refuse any request for vacation which is not fixed in the schedule of vacations. You may request to change schedule of vacations but employer may legally refuse such request. They can not change schedule of vacations without getting your agreement.

In you situation if dates you request are not in schedule of vacations they have legal right to say no.

If schedule of vacations does not exist in your organization or is not approved as it is required, it's a serious violation.

All above is what the law says. I hope it helped if not - ask.

tvadim133
19-08-2009, 16:29
Hi!

I do have one link, which is in Russian (allpravo.ru)

In short:
- you should tale during one year 28 days of vacation
- vacation can be devided into several times but...
- at least one period should have duration of 14 days;
- If during the period of vacation there are saturdays and sundays, these days are claculated as taken-vacation-days

Just two examples:
1/ you wrote a letter that you would like to get vacation from Monday untill Friday (friday is the first working day after vacation).
In this case, you will get officially 4 days of vacation and spend actually 6 because week-end before vacation will not be included into officially taken period of time;
2/ you wrote a letter that you would like to take vacation from Tuesday untill Tuesday of next week (the next Tuesday is the first working day after vacaion), in this case week end will be included into quantity of taken-for-vacation days that is
you will have 5 working days and 2 days of week-end, but HR will consider it to be 7 days of vacation

I hope it will help!

Vadim

EsteeEstee
13-09-2009, 12:31
Schedule of vacations is the only legal document that defines who and when goes on vacation.

I'm not sure whether I got the idea but I'd add that first of all you can read the Russian Labour Code and use it in the course of discussing the issue with your employer/HR department. If your company is large enough, you're a professional and know something about what the law says about your problem employers and/or HR people usually prefer not to violate the law. Thus being familiar with the law is rather crucial for securing your workplace rights.

By the way some Russian electronic law databases have English versions. Try Garant (Гарант - Russian Law in English - in the upper right corner of the webpage). The only drawback is that unfortunately they are not free of charge. At least this is an up to date and a reliable source used by most Russian lawyers (though mostly the Russian version).

As it has been already explained in one of the replies above, according to the Code most employees are granted a 28 calendar days of annual leave which can be divided into parts (though one of these parts shall last for not less than 14 days). "Calendar days" means days in general (both working ones and weekends). Just don't count weekends as some special days which should or should not be counted/included in this sense. Forget this difference between working days and weekends in regards to the annual leave issue.
Calendar days are just days, that's all.

So these 14 days means right 14 days, nothing more (irrespective of how many weekends and/or working days the period includes). 14 + 14 means 28 days of leave, a very simple math excercise. I do not see how 14+14 days can count to 20 or 24...

Usually in practice it means that you're supposed to take a fortnight leave twice a year according to the schedule of leaves approved by your employer. A employer shall take into account wishes of the employees. When approved a leave schedule is mandatory for both employer and employees. So you're allowed to take you remaining days only at the time which is specified in the annual leave schedule of your company. If there's none it's a breach of law on employer's side

This is only a brief and general reply. If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.

Benedikt
11-10-2009, 16:02
since we ( hospitality industry) are working most of the time on weekends it does not matter anyway.And we have 2 days off in a week, meaning 5 days work 2 days off.
we have 14 days BUT because we have a good boss and we arrange our vacations by ourselves at the BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, this is required by law, we fiddle it in such a way that we add the last 2 days off at the beginning of the vacation and the next two days from the first week off work. so we all go 18 days....:plane:
we just got back from turkey....

tasha3004
11-10-2009, 19:28
Dear members,

don't know if this is the right section. Please excuse if not and move it to the right section.

I've been employed in Moscow on a local contract since last September, stating in my contract that I have 28 calendar days available for vacation. My personnel department is nothing close to professional in actually tracking those days, letting me know how I can take them, that's why I really need some precise information. Best would be to have weblink in Russian/English to prove what I am granted officially, backed by RF law.

To my info, I'm advised / obliged to take min 2 weeks per year in a row, but also weekends count, leaving me with 14 calendar days left per year.

Does this mean, I can take those 14 remaining days like I want, or do I also have to count weekends? In other words, do I have 20 or 24 working days vacation?

My personnel office says I have 20, but if I take 14 days in a row, and consider that I can take the rest = 14 days, like I want them, this would leave me with 24. If I have to count weekends, it would leave me 20 days only... (Mo-Fr.)

I'm really confused...

working in HR I can assure you that 28 days really mean calendar days and includes weekends as well. if you take a week of Mon-Fri that will mean you will be absent from work for 7 calendar days Mon-Sun and back to work only next Mon. This is why HR would consider your absence of 5 working days as 7 calendar days leave. In reality you would only have 20 working days leave per year if you always take it Mon-Fri. You can play a trick taking your leave Mon-Thur which will be only 4 calendar days.
But one of your leave parts should be not less then 14 calendar days in a row as per law as mentioned by some other forum users.
It is also fixed that you should utilise your annual leave within current working year.
if you have other questions you can PM me.

tasha3004
11-10-2009, 19:31
Be confused, be very confused...my experience with Russian firms is that contracts mean nothing...meaning anything goes...meaning usually the agreement you made isn't worth the paper it's printed on. The upside is that you can negotiate impromptu another arrangement as long as you have the hear of someone who can enable a change...

GLUCK

those type of firms is worthless to work with then...
if you have a labor contract in hands then you at least have something guaranteed... unused annual leave is compensated anyway upon resignation.

Notelina
12-10-2009, 00:44
Labour Code of Russian Federation
CHAPTER 19. LEAVE

Article 114. Annual paid leave
Employees are granted annual leaves with the reservation of their working place (post) and average earnings.

Article 115. The duration of main annual paid leave
The duration of the main annual paid leave granted to employees is 28 calendar days.
The main annual paid leave longer than 28 calendar days (extended main leave) is granted to employees in accordance with the present Code and other federal laws.


Dont be confused, guys...


All the best,
Elena

Kangaroo495
12-10-2009, 11:01
In my company, I also have to take at least 14 days in a row - once a year. But for the rest of the leave-period, I can only take a minimum of one week. So I get 14 days once and 7 days twice. REALLY INCONVENIENT!!

I have a question about my personal situtation. I have tickets to go to on holiday from the 22nd December - 13th January. I have 14 days remaining for my otpusk (by the 22nd of December). My company says if I want to take so much time off, I will need to take 3 days UNPAID leave in this period (if I return to work on the 14th of January).

IS THIS CORRECT? Is there are way I can make it less costly for myself?

Cheers

Notelina
12-10-2009, 11:38
In my company, I also have to take at least 14 days in a row - once a year. But for the rest of the leave-period, I can only take a minimum of one week. So I get 14 days once and 7 days twice. REALLY INCONVENIENT!!


Absolutely agree! But it is our russian law.... What can we do ... The russians dont like it too.

Article 125. Dividing the annual paid leave into parts. Recall from the leave
Under the agreement between the employer and the employee the annual paid leave may be divided into parts. In this case at least one of the parts of this leave [U]cannot be shorter than 14 calendar days[/B].

(Labour Code of Russian Federation)




I have a question about my personal situtation. I have tickets to go to on holiday from the 22nd December - 13th January. I have 14 days remaining for my otpusk (by the 22nd of December). My company says if I want to take so much time off, I will need to take 3 days UNPAID leave in this period (if I return to work on the 14th of January).

IS THIS CORRECT?

Cheers

Yes, it is correct :(

Look - u have 14 days of leave, that ur company granted to u. As we already have said - it counts in calendar days. So ur otpusk is from the 22nd of December till the 4th of January.

Also we have non-working New Year holidays in the Russian Federation. These are:
1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 January - New Year;
7 January - Christmas;
And if a day off coincides with a non-working holiday, the day off is shifted to the working day which follows the holiday.

So the 2nd and the 3rd of January will be shifted to the 6th and 8th of January.

So - the 11th of January u have to return to work.

Cheers,
Lena

Kangaroo495
12-10-2009, 15:19
Absolutely agree! But it is our russian law.... What can we do ... The russians dont like it too.

Article 125. Dividing the annual paid leave into parts. Recall from the leave
Under the agreement between the employer and the employee the annual paid leave may be divided into parts. In this case at least one of the parts of this leave [U]cannot be shorter than 14 calendar days[/B].

(Labour Code of Russian Federation)




Yes, it is correct :(

Look - u have 14 days of leave, that ur company granted to u. As we already have said - it counts in calendar days. So ur otpusk is from the 22nd of December till the 4th of January.

Also we have non-working New Year holidays in the Russian Federation. These are:
1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 January - New Year;
7 January - Christmas;
And if a day off coincides with a non-working holiday, the day off is shifted to the working day which follows the holiday.

So the 2nd and the 3rd of January will be shifted to the 6th and 8th of January.

So - the 11th of January u have to return to work.

Cheers,
Lena


Lena, are you my HR Director??? :)

Thanks for the explanation. I calculated it the same, but I wanted to get a 3rd party clarification.

I have one mroe question:

Would it be possible to take the otpusk from the 17th of December till the 31st? That's 14 days.

I would work on the 18th and 21st, and then "otgulyat" 4 calendar days from the 11th - 14th (or something like that).

This way, I don't lose those two prazdniki which are counted as calendar days, but where I would not come to work anyway. I think I would also loose less money this way.

Notelina
12-10-2009, 15:49
Lena, are you my HR Director??? :)

hahaahah - no, im not :P



Would it be possible to take the otpusk from the 17th of December till the 31st? That's 14 days.

Yes, certainly! Why not ))



I would work on the 18th and 21st, and then "otgulyat" 4 calendar days from the 11th - 14th (or something like that).

Sorry, i dont understand... the 18th and 22nd of which month?


If u'll have ur otpust from 17th of December u'll have the great vocation! 14 days + 10 days in January! I recomend u to change ur tickets ;)

Kangaroo495
12-10-2009, 15:57
hahaahah - no, im not :P


Yes, certainly! Why not ))


Sorry, i dont understand... the 18th and 22nd of which month?


If u'll have ur otpust from 17th of December u'll have the great vocation! 14 days + 10 days in January! I recomend u to change ur tickets ;)

Well the fact is, that I already got tickets from the 22nd-13th. Can't change it now.

My idea was to take the actual corporate otpusk from the 18th of December until the 31st of December, but work on the 18th (19-20 is weekend) and 21st.

So I would work 4 calendar days during my "otpusk", and my company would allow me to take another 4 days at another time. I would use these days to cover the time in January before I return to work... Hm complicated..

Notelina
12-10-2009, 16:11
Kangaroo495,
if ur company would have no objection, it is a good idea :)

mattology
20-10-2009, 11:59
Can I accept that my company tells me that if I want to take "just a few calendar days" = less than a full week, that

1 leave day equals 1.4 calendar days?

This calculation is based on the average number of calendar days per month (apparently 29.4?) divided by the average number of working days per month (apparently 21?).

Means that in any case they will not let me take calendar days but only "working days". So, 28 calendar days divided by 1.4 = 20 working days.

In fact I sometimes just take 1 or 2 days to finish some deals or prolong my weekend for a short trip home. Just using calendar days (but splitting my vacation into 1x 14 days and the rest single days) would give me a little more time off than just having 20 days to "work with"....

How can I possibly claim the leave time that I'm really granted? Article 115 tells me nothing about what I can do with my "other 14 days".

stacy
22-10-2009, 22:57
Russian Federation. LABOR CODE OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION OF 31 DECEMBER 2001 (http://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/WEBTEXT/60535/65252/E01RUS01.htm)

Don't forget they have to pay you for all unused leaves if you quit or fired - in your last day there. So if you work for them for a longer time, at adds up to a good amount. That includes the leaves they didn't track in their documentation with your signature. They have to have your signature for each of your vacation leaves.

NotAnAngel
23-10-2009, 19:16
In my company, I also have to take at least 14 days in a row - once a year. But for the rest of the leave-period, I can only take a minimum of one week. So I get 14 days once and 7 days twice. REALLY INCONVENIENT!!

I have a question about my personal situtation. I have tickets to go to on holiday from the 22nd December - 13th January. I have 14 days remaining for my otpusk (by the 22nd of December). My company says if I want to take so much time off, I will need to take 3 days UNPAID leave in this period (if I return to work on the 14th of January).

IS THIS CORRECT? Is there are way I can make it less costly for myself?

Cheers

If you have a look at the article 120 of Labor Code, you'll see why 1, 2, 3 and 4'th of January 2010 shouldn't be couted as your otpusk. Those are holidays (in 2010 we have holidays from the 1'st till 10'th of January). So, calculation of your boss isn't fully correct.

NotAnAngel
23-10-2009, 19:35
You are granted 28 calendar days of otpusk (leave) which generally means 20 days on "weekdays" + 8 on "weekends" encluded.
The company isn't abliged to allow you all 14 days to be taken on "weekdays", that's why it's more likely that they won't do that...


Can I accept that my company tells me that if I want to take "just a few calendar days" = less than a full week, that

1 leave day equals 1.4 calendar days?

This calculation is based on the average number of calendar days per month (apparently 29.4?) divided by the average number of working days per month (apparently 21?).

Means that in any case they will not let me take calendar days but only "working days". So, 28 calendar days divided by 1.4 = 20 working days.

In fact I sometimes just take 1 or 2 days to finish some deals or prolong my weekend for a short trip home. Just using calendar days (but splitting my vacation into 1x 14 days and the rest single days) would give me a little more time off than just having 20 days to "work with"....

How can I possibly claim the leave time that I'm really granted? Article 115 tells me nothing about what I can do with my "other 14 days".

Voot
24-10-2009, 12:24
I have a question regarding holidays. If I were to take four days off during a week with a national holiday, then how many days would this count as? For example, in the week of the November 4th holiday, what would happen if I took off 2th and 3th, and 5th and 6th? Would it only count as 6 days? And I'm also interested about this concept of taking off Monday-Thursday. Is it true that this would only be counted as 4 days?

NotAnAngel
24-10-2009, 13:05
again, article 120 of Labor Code: national holidays during you otpusk (leave) aren't counted as days of otpusk.
e.g. if you take otpusk from 1-7 Nov (or 2-8 Nov), 6 days from that period are days of your otpusk, one day (4th) - national holiday.
If not the art. 120 Labor Code, all the companies, I guess, were counting 1-10 January national holidays as otpusk for their staff))

NotAnAngel
24-10-2009, 13:38
To tell you the truth, I don't see much sense in doing that.
You salary is counted proportionate to quantity of working days in the month. So, if you take otpusk on working days, you have less salary (look at the table)
http://www.expat.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=17168&stc=1&d=1256377273
I simplified the calculations a bit - I count that pay is always the same during calculating period (12 months), so the real calculations are much more difficult, but it still works that way.

tvadim133
24-10-2009, 13:50
I have a question regarding holidays. If I were to take four days off during a week with a national holiday, then how many days would this count as? For example, in the week of the November 4th holiday, what would happen if I took off 2th and 3th, and 5th and 6th? Would it only count as 6 days? And I'm also interested about this concept of taking off Monday-Thursday. Is it true that this would only be counted as 4 days?

Depedning of dates in your requests (special form or letter) for the vacation:

1. you "ask" for the vacation for the period from the 2 of November untill the 6th of November, so the first working day will be the 9th of November.

2. the 4 th of November will be the bank holliday.

3. 6 days will be counted as vacation period and paid.


Concepts of Monday and Tuesday:

1. you "ask" for the vacation which will be over on Wednesday, so the first working day is Wednesday and within the period there is not weekend;.

2. 2 days will be counted as vacation period and paid.

NotAnAngel
24-10-2009, 15:21
And I'm also interested about this concept of taking off Monday-Thursday. Is it true that this would only be counted as 4 days?

If you take otpusk from 2nd (Monday) to 5th (Thursday) November, the first working day is 6th (Friday), and you'll have 3 days counted as paid leave and 1 day (4th Nov) - national holiday.
but still, if you only taking leave on working days, you lose in salary in most cases.

Voot
24-10-2009, 15:30
Thanks for the info. I wanted to ask what the law says to splitting your other 14 days (after having a two week holiday) into 3 four day holidays (ie Monday to Thursday). And then using the remaining two days on a Monday and Tuesday.

So 28 days:

2 week period (14 days)
Monday - Thursday (4 days)
Monday - Thursday (4 days)
Monday - Thursday (4 days)
Monday-Tuesday (2 days)

Is it allowed by law? Because that way you get 24 days holiday instead of 20. And what if you take 4 1/2 days. Do they count the weekend?

Voot
24-10-2009, 15:32
So what you're saying is that I could do that, but I'd lose 4 days pay?

Voot
24-10-2009, 15:33
So the best way to look at the whole situation is to say: in Russia most people get 20 days/4 weeks paid annual leave (plus national holidays).

NotAnAngel
24-10-2009, 16:08
It isn't forbidden by the law - thus, it depends on company's regulations.
They may allow or not - it's company's decision.
I'd also say that person, who makes all the papers and calculations would probably near to kill you for that - it's really hard work dealing with these short leaves.
But your idea about 24 or 20 days holiday isn't fully correct. It seems that you have more days of vocation, but if you calculate all the sums which you get, in that case you'll see that the total sum is very near as if you had taken 4 days of unpaid leave.

As regards to 4 1/2 days, I don't really understand what you're trying to gain from that;)


Thanks for the info. I wanted to ask what the law says to splitting your other 14 days (after having a two week holiday) into 3 four day holidays (ie Monday to Thursday). And then using the remaining two days on a Monday and Tuesday.

So 28 days:

2 week period (14 days)
Monday - Thursday (4 days)
Monday - Thursday (4 days)
Monday - Thursday (4 days)
Monday-Tuesday (2 days)

Is it allowed by law? Because that way you get 24 days holiday instead of 20. And what if you take 4 1/2 days. Do they count the weekend?

NotAnAngel
24-10-2009, 16:13
So what you're saying is that I could do that, but I'd lose 4 days pay?
Something like that;)

NotAnAngel
24-10-2009, 16:32
So the best way to look at the whole situation is to say: in Russia most people get 20 days/4 weeks paid annual leave (plus national holidays).
Oh, no, please don't make our laws more complicated and tangled than they are:bowdown: