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logoff
11-09-2003, 20:33
I love Moscow, but I hate to live there. I hate New York, but I love to live here. Does anyone share with me similar feelings?

cjollybottom
11-09-2003, 23:10
This reminds me of something an ex girlfriend said to me a few years back in Moscow whilst we were out one night!

"You only like it here because you can leave anytime"

Hows that for logic :) I'll always remember her saying that, she's a sharp cookie.

Does it make any sense to you?


PS. This was the same girl who blurted out "sponsored by gazprom" whilst viewing the eternal flame, much to peoples amusement!

wwwoland
11-09-2003, 23:19
cjolly -- sure I could leave any time I wanted, and have done so on occasion. But I KEEP COMING BACK!!!! :confused: So what is it? Certainly not the climate, the food, the ease of life, the happy people you meet on the street... :confused: :confused: :confused: must be something in the water...

DaveUK1965
14-09-2003, 19:53
The fact that, in Eastern Europe, you actually feel ALIVE ? Good times or bad times ? That you`re in a country with a totally different perspective to life ? Lack of the mundane, the humdrum, the boring ?

J.D.
15-09-2003, 08:25
I agree with Jollybutt's girlfriend. I would not be happy here if I knew I couldn't leave anytime I wanted. Multi-entry visa: never go anywhere without it. My company wants me to get a 3 month renewable visa, but this visa requires an exit visa each time you want to exit. This really made me realize I agree with with CJ's girlfriend.

trebor
15-09-2003, 12:38
cjollybottom,
your sharp girlfriend summed up the expat mentality brilliantly with the phrase "
"You only like it here because you can leave anytime"
I was once with a group of friends in Thailand and i asked them, some of whom had been working there for many years, to name the prime minister and not one could. Why should we care one told me. None took an interest in daily papers, so felt no remorse when there was bad news.
This is the essence of why so many expats enjoy life overseas.
We have great salaries (well, most of us) enjoy all the benefits at a fraction of the cost back home and yet somehow we are insulated from daily events.
I have been an expat for about 20 years and have never spent much time back in the UK but i still feel concern when i read bad news about home. I can honestly say all i feel when something bad happens here is pity and hope things get better for Russians.

wwwoland
15-09-2003, 12:47
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
The fact that, in Eastern Europe, you actually feel ALIVE ? Good times or bad times ? That you`re in a country with a totally different perspective to life ? Lack of the mundane, the humdrum, the boring ?

Dave -- You hit the nail on the head. I actually enjoy not knowing from day to day what will happen next -- what crisis lies around the corner. Or what success. Back in the west life is just too damn BORING, i.e., predictable. I can handle it for about 3 months and then I really just start to climb the walls...

J.D.
15-09-2003, 13:14
When ever I go to a sea side city I always like to go down to the marina and look at the boats. Not the big commercial stuff but the private ones. Of course I will always find some people who live on their boats and are in this particular place for some days or weeks. Without exception at least one of them will ask me "What day is it?" I'm envious of people who don't know what day it is but you're probably right, it would get boring.

wwwoland
15-09-2003, 13:39
Originally posted by Fa-Q
I think that all of the interesting people that you meet here adds to the excitement. I have friend from every corner of the globe. Can't get that at home.

Fa-Q, another good point. I've worked in companies where 95% of my colleagues have barely been outside the state since they were born. Maybe a quick vacation to Florida or something, but that's about it. As for knowing about the big, wide world out there -- not a chance. Kinda limits discussion topics to sports and politics, and nobody likes talking politics. "So, how about those Redskins!?" :rolleyes:

Patriot
17-09-2003, 11:18
Dear Guests,
If you would be born here, you would not think of leaving this place. Simple.
I graduated from Sorbonne and had all chances to stay in France or to move to Canada, but here I am ;) ... teasing you.

Stuck with it forever.

kiki
17-09-2003, 11:41
I knew one American keeps saying around him how much he loves Moscow what some day he'd prefer to die here and not in US. I think he spent about 10 years here. Ones I asked him if he ever been to Kremlin and how beartiful it is. Well, he said he just never been there.

Absolutely agreed with Lodoff and share his/her similar feelings - in full of it.

Regete
17-09-2003, 12:24
Moscow is a large city but it gives the impression of being a small and friendly town with fellows you happen to meet everythere.

uninformed
17-09-2003, 15:28
Originally posted by Regete
Moscow is a large city but it gives the impression of being a small and friendly town with fellows you happen to meet everythere.

Where do you live?? Maybe you've seen this in a Movie but it definitely is NOT the Moscow I know. A "small and friendly town?"

Actually, that sounds like drugs. Cars driving on the sidewalk and pushing pedestrians aside is not "friendly." The waiter who can't be bothered to take your order is not "friendly" nor is the bookshop where they won't put down their book to sell you something. Or the department store where the salesgirls are all chatting while you stand there waiting. Or the trolleybus driver who yells at my son whom i've dragged all around town and is now sitting in one of the foward seats though there are other forward seats open but she things only an old person should sit there.

Or the people who break in line in front of you - that's "friendly"? Or the passport control clerks (need I say more?) at Sheremetyevo.

In my "small town" we didn't have drunks on the sidewalk, bus, metro much less throwing up or pissing. My wife was on the metro elevator and felt something splash on her legs and the guy in front of her was peeing. This is "friendly" or "small town."

Or how about the store clerk who gets angry because you don't have the 40 kopeks change to make her life easier.

Or all the waiters who pretend they don't understand your (poor) Russian when you say "vada byez gaza" when they take your drink order. What the hell else COULD you mean.

and so on.

Small and Friendly. No way. Not that we don't like it here - because we do. But I can't imagine using those words to describe Moscow.

Regete
17-09-2003, 16:07
you know, i speak for myself and prob "friendly" is mostly my way of behavior that pays me back most of the time.

however, i must admit, that happens and happens really often.

for me, the city is still friendly as my experience proved it. Whatever happened , there were always ppl ready to help me.

That's what i mean.

Krylia
17-09-2003, 17:23
Yeah well

i can understand what Mr. Uninformed is on about, but he'll get there in the end. By the end of my time here it had been my challenge to get the girl in the targovy tsentr to smile at me.

Now I'm in sleepy little Kiev where everyone smiles and everyone is friendly, but given the chance where would I be?

MOSCOW

uninformed
17-09-2003, 22:12
Now Georgian restaurants - THEY are friendly. But they're run by Georgians - not by Russians.

J.D.
17-09-2003, 22:33
I have to agree, I find Georgians much friendlier than Russians. Without exception all of my Russian friends tell me that it is just an act that the Georgians put on because they want something.

Krylia
18-09-2003, 10:21
My partner (who is from the Caucasus) and I met a very friendly Georgian on Malya Dimitovka. He said that we Kafkasi should stick together etc. etc. and proceeded to swindle us of $100. He never stopped smiling though. Lovely bloke!

Intourist
18-09-2003, 13:15
Responding to Uninformed

It sounds like you're relatively unhappy. I'm sorry. But your post begs the question of the places you frequent because I don't find your descriptions to be anything close to my experience.

I won't go as far to call Moscow "friendly" but I don't think it differs much from any other large city like, New York.

I've been here for 10 years and admit that Russians aren't as "smiley" as Americans, but

My last passport control clerk made googly noises to my 18month son and let me through with the Russian Residents so my son wouldn't have to wait so long. US Customs last week made me wait in line 90 minutes.

I've never seen a car drive on a sidewalk (other than to park)

I've never seen people pissing in the Metro (I have in NY).

I've never had rude waiters in the restaurants I go to or insult my accent, to the contrary, most Russians are usually quite impressed when foreigners show effort in speaking Russian.

And please don't interpret this as my saying you're wrong. I just think it's a shame to see someone witnessing such an infinitely less enjoyable time in such a great city.

J.D.
18-09-2003, 13:37
I've never seen a car drive on a sidewalk (other than to park)

I've never seen people pissing in the Metro (I have in NY).

I've never had rude waiters in the restaurants

Are you blind or are you in a differnt Russia than the rest of us?

I've never had my accent insulted here either however I have often heard Russians either insult or laugh at Ukrainian's accent.

With Westerners they either understand us or they don't.

Regete
18-09-2003, 16:44
Russian ppl show more respect to those who came from the West than to the ones from the East.

No wonder, we used to expect invasions only on that border.

cjollybottom
18-09-2003, 16:51
>My last passport control clerk made googly noises to my >18month son and let me through with the Russian Residents so >my son wouldn't have to wait so long. US Customs last week >made me wait in line 90 minutes.


This genuinely surprises me, were you at Domo or SH-2, because at SH-2 I never have been smiled at once, or shown any courtesy by immigration in around 25 inbound trips, all at SH-2.

OK, they are efficient, and I have never had any hassle, but courtesy... never.

Intourist
18-09-2003, 16:57
Originally posted by J.D.
Are you blind or are you in a differnt Russia than the rest of us?

I've never had my accent insulted here either however I have often heard Russians either insult or laugh at Ukrainian's accent.

With Westerners they either understand us or they don't.

J.D, Where in god's name are there sidewalks large enough to drive on in the center ? Or do you mean road shoulder ? I think you gotta be careful about the distinction. If there were cars driving on the sidewalk, it would be chaos, but I've never seen it other than to park. Shoulders are a different matter, but as a pedestrian you should be on the sidewalk, not the road shoulder.

I don't ride the metro that much, I admit, but the Moscow metro is surely one of the cleanest metros in the world. The cars are old, but clean. The only downside, in my opinion are the bums that ride the ring line.

Krylia
18-09-2003, 17:51
To Regete

When was the last time Azerbaijan, Georgia, or Armenia invaded Russia? :confused:

Regete
18-09-2003, 18:21
The Caucasian countries are to be considered in terms of our permanent fight for the territory and their inborn courage and independance.
Moreover, these small nations often cannot come to terms with each other, let alone us having even less in common with them.

cjollybottom
18-09-2003, 21:00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
The fact that, in Eastern Europe, you actually feel ALIVE ? Good times or bad times ? That you`re in a country with a totally different perspective to life ? Lack of the mundane, the humdrum, the boring ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by wwwoland
Dave -- You hit the nail on the head. I actually enjoy not knowing from day to day what will happen next -- what crisis lies around the corner. Or what success. Back in the west life is just too damn BORING, i.e., predictable. I can handle it for about 3 months and then I really just start to climb the walls...

Succinctly put Dave. Some time back I was in John Bull after an embassy night and all of us there, seven or eight, between the ages of 30 and 50, agreed that the "feeling ALIVE" was absolutely it. I think many of us are guys (and gals) who like to live life "a bit on the edge".

J.D.
19-09-2003, 09:12
J.D, Where in god's name are there sidewalks large enough to drive on in the center ? Or do you mean road shoulder ? I think you gotta be careful about the distinction. If there were cars driving on the sidewalk, it would be chaos, but I've never seen it other than to park. Shoulders are a different matter, but as a pedestrian you should be on the sidewalk, not the road shoulder.

Aside from the old Arbat which is a special case of course, there is the New Arbat, many times during rush hour on the side heading out of town I see cars get on the sidewalk race ahead a block or two and then jump back on. Many other places also and this in addition to the ones that drive down the sidewalk looking for a place to park.

And yes the Metro is cleaned very well every night and it's a good thing because after one day without cleaning it would be a ces pool.

Hermione
19-09-2003, 21:11
Well, hopefully you've noticed the traffic on New Arbat is organised so that you can't park on the road shoulder. I wonder how you manage to do that when need to get somewhere in this street. Perhaps you are not against long walks though.

As for peeing in metro etc.. there are 13 million people living here. I guess it is supposed to be some percentage of lumpens and marginals here. However as well as everywhere;)

J.D.
19-09-2003, 21:54
Hermiona, I'm not sure what your talking about as New Arbat doesn't have a shoulder. The side heading toward the center(Kremlin) has been rebuilt so that you can not drive on the sidewalk however if you will reread my post you will see that I said 'on the side going away from the center.'


I wonder how you manage to do that when need to get somewhere in this street. Perhaps you are not against long walks though.
I have no idea what you were trying to say in this part. I guess i just can't understand English.

cyclby
20-09-2003, 09:52
Originally posted by Intourist
Responding to Uninformed
I've never seen a car drive on a sidewalk (other than to park)

And please don't interpret this as my saying you're wrong. I just think it's a shame to see someone witnessing such an infinitely less enjoyable time in such a great city.
I am a bit late to the fray gentlemen but;

I ride my bike down the Nab and between Novospassky Most and the Kremlin I can count on being chased down the sidewalk at least once a day, everyday, by a car. This not the only place this occurs and I would have to have a death wish of some sort to walk on the shoulder.

Trebor brought the point up earlier. It is blessed not to have a clue as to the news of the day. I enjoy the isolation from day to day Russian politics and I do not even pursue world events on the net.

Rudest people on the face of the earth reside in Jersey, not here.

I enjoy the day to day challenges of the city but long for wide open spaces once in awhile. Would be nice to have a day off from it.
Regards to all,
C