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View Full Version : Offered Job in Moscow can I survive on 32k Rubles a month?



DTalon
15-08-2009, 22:19
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

Qdos
15-08-2009, 22:25
I could live on that, as long as the apartment and it's service charges are all inclusive and it's close to your job - but I'd want to be doing something or rather in my spare time to make a few more rubles... :)

AndreyS
15-08-2009, 22:49
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?
Definitely you can cover those expenses. Don't doubt.
Of course, no restaurants or other expensive entertainments. If you need additional info on all costs. feel free to PM me.

Bels
15-08-2009, 22:58
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?


What is 32000 roubles in English language? About 32 x 20 British ponds = 640 British pounds per month. I am sorry that is insulting for an American or Brit to want to come to Russia for. Maybe you will survive , but as a foreigner being British or American not used to the country you won,t. DON'T COME unless the offer at least triples.

In this rare case I have to disagree with Qdos.

trebor
15-08-2009, 23:01
It's going to be a bit tough in my opinion. It can be done of course, a lot of Russians do it on a lot less but much will depend on your life style.
Do you speak any Russian? If you do you will find it easier to live cheaply.
Do you get vacation pay and a return ticket to the states as part of the contract? If not you'll have to budget for that as well.
Are all visa/registration and related cost included?
You can eat reletively cheaply but you'll need to shop around and depends on you and your childs preferences.
Good medical treatment isn't cheap in Moscow either.
Bring clothing with you
Utilities are not expensive.
Not sure what internet costs these days, i'm sure someone here will be able to tell you
Will you be able to use public transport to get to work?

You don't mention what work you're doing but i would seriously consider everything before commiting yourself. You wont be living the high life but it can ge done with shrewed budgeting.

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:04
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

How on earth were were you tempted in such a lousy offer. Surely there is much more in USA somewhere. There is certainly something much better in offer in Britain. I could find you a better offer in Britain as a toilet cleaner and even better disposing garbage from homes I can offer you double. What on earth are you being offered in Russia LOL. Come on please , as I know that really you were joking. Unless you accidently forgot a few zeros.

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:05
Come to think of it, some EFL teachers have been offered this garbage.

SV1973a
15-08-2009, 23:08
That you can make the decision for yourself to come to Moscow to work for such a ridiculously low salary, I can accept.
Millions of Russians have to live on an income that is less than 32kRUB, so it possible to survive.
But being a father, why would you want your daughter to live in poverty?
??
Don`t do this man!!!

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:21
I need to make an additional point here. Isn't it amazing that expats that are coming here as efl teachers etc are open about income. But look at the family section, education section , and the sections for those looking for Nannies, drivers, housekeepers. How often do these people discuss their income? All they ask is how much it might cost to educate and keep their children here, how much a fulltime driver and an armed house security guard might cost to keep their well kept house, and which also has a security guarded road for example. Is this the real expat? The ones who don't discuss if their salary is enough. And amount of salary is taboo to be discussed on internet?

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:24
That you can make the decision for yourself to come to Moscow to work for such a ridiculously low salary, I can accept.
Millions of Russians have to live on an income that is less than 32kRUB, so it possible to survive.
But being a father, why would you want your daughter to live in poverty?
??
Don`t do this man!!!

YES exactly!. Why move from a first world country to a thirld world offer. Suicide ideals perhaps?

DTalon
15-08-2009, 23:25
That you can make the decision for yourself to come to Moscow to work for such a ridiculously low salary, I can accept.
Millions of Russians have to live on an income that is less than 32kRUB, so it possible to survive.
But being a father, why would you want your daughter to live in poverty?
??
Don`t do this man!!!

Ah sorry :)
I didn't realize my query would elicit such concern.

I am the mother of this child. My husband is dead.

I have personal reasons for wanting to be in Moscow and substantial savings that I can defray expenses with. I simply wondered what basic living expenses were in the city, living a basic comfortable lifestyle.

if anyone cares to, please give me an estimate on what this costs.

We will not be going out for expensive dinners, to nightclubs, or be maintaining a car.

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:27
It's going to be a bit tough in my opinion. It can be done of course, a lot of Russians do it on a lot less but much will depend on your life style.
Do you speak any Russian? If you do you will find it easier to live cheaply.
Do you get vacation pay and a return ticket to the states as part of the contract? If not you'll have to budget for that as well.
Are all visa/registration and related cost included?
You can eat reletively cheaply but you'll need to shop around and depends on you and your childs preferences.
Good medical treatment isn't cheap in Moscow either.
Bring clothing with you
Utilities are not expensive.
Not sure what internet costs these days, i'm sure someone here will be able to tell you
Will you be able to use public transport to get to work?

You don't mention what work you're doing but i would seriously consider everything before commiting yourself. You wont be living the high life but it can ge done with shrewed budgeting.


So he wants to travel and spend a good part of his life with veryshrewd budgeting.

Why?????

lucky33
15-08-2009, 23:32
It is not so easy to survive at the same time you cant tell its impossible.
My best wishes to you

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:33
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

I suppose it helps.You are a Mother of a child? How old? Are you originally Russian? Do you speak Russian? Does your child speak Russian?

All this helps in the respect of your Budjet. If it is all positive then your budjet will be lower.

Christina Seefeld
15-08-2009, 23:35
Hi Newbie,
just a little comment how I make life here in Moscow. I like trying to find good cheap markets, possibilities to buy food and other stuff for good prices. But I cannot say that the advantages of living in Moscow are so many. Honestly: If I wouldn`t have the money to enjoy life here and to be able to realise my hobbys like swimming, fitness and tennis I woud take the first airplain and fligh back home! At the beginning maybe u don`t feel so depend on these things, but when u realise that you are really limitated in your aktivities u think twice if living in Moscow is such a good deal.
Think twice before giving up your normal life.

SV1973a
15-08-2009, 23:46
I need to make an additional point here. Isn't it amazing that expats that are coming here as efl teachers etc are open about income. But look at the family section, education section , and the sections for those looking for Nannies, drivers, housekeepers. How often do these people discuss their income? All they ask is how much it might cost to educate and keep their children here, how much a fulltime driver and an armed house security guard might cost to keep their well kept house, and which also has a security guarded road for example. Is this the real expat? The ones who don't discuss if their salary is enough. And amount of salary is taboo to be discussed on internet?

Well, Bels, I am not an EFL teacher. Nobody ever asked me on the forum how much money I make, but if you really must know, it is about net 15 times the 32000 rubles per month (and car and insurance and home leave budget and ...).

trebor
15-08-2009, 23:48
So he wants to travel and spend a good part of his life with veryshrewd budgeting.

Why?????

Why are you asking me that question?

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:53
Well, Bels, I am not an EFL teacher. Nobody ever asked me on the forum how much money I make, but if you really must know, it is about net 15 times the 32000 rubles per month (and car and insurance and home leave budget and ...).

Nice to see there is one honest person here. And I still deeply concerned about those who who want to come to Russia onn lousier income from what if they tried hard enough, could find in their own great wealthy countries.

Isn't coming to Russia, being offered a better deal than what you can get in your own country? What other reasons could attract you here? Apart from the women:)

SV1973a
15-08-2009, 23:53
Ah sorry :)

I am the mother of this child. My husband is dead.

.

Sorry I mistakenly took you for a man.
I am afraid that with the salary they proposed you, you will have to rely on your savings.
I would say that food is about the same cost as in Europe (in big stores like Auchan, Perekrestok), clothes, furniture,... are more expensive in Russia.
Transportation is cheaper than in Europe.
Suppose you and your girl travel by metro and need a 1 month ticket, that alread will cost you around 1600 rubles (or 5% of your salary).

SV1973a
15-08-2009, 23:56
Nice to see there is one honest person here. And I still deeply concerned about those who who want to come to Russia onn lousier income from what if they tried hard enough, could find in their own great wealthy countries.

Isn't coming to Russia, being offered a better deal than what you can get in your own country? What other reasons could attract you here? Apart from the women:)

I can understand it when you are young and looking for adventure. But once you are responsible for the lifes of others, then it is time to be serious.

Bels
15-08-2009, 23:58
Why are you asking me that question?

I'm quoting you.

Why is he? I said.

Bels
16-08-2009, 00:03
Sorry I mistakenly took you for a man.
I am afraid that with the salary they proposed you, you will have to rely on your savings.
I would say that food is about the same cost as in Europe (in big stores like Auchan, Perekrestok), clothes, furniture,... are more expensive in Russia.
Transportation is cheaper than in Europe.
Suppose you and your girl travel by metro and need a 1 month ticket, that alread will cost you around 1600 rubles (or 5% of your salary).

Now this is one person who knows what they are talking about in regards to personal experience. Take heed!! It costs a fortune for little things in the west we take for granted. Fortune and a great deal of time, as nothing moves fast and efficient here.

Take heed newbies.

trebor
16-08-2009, 00:04
Nice to see there is one honest person here. And I still deeply concerned about those who who want to come to Russia onn lousier income from what if they tried hard enough, could find in their own great wealthy countries.

Isn't coming to Russia, being offered a better deal than what you can get in your own country? What other reasons could attract you here? Apart from the women:)

Bels, the original poster is a woman and simply asked for some advice on cost of living issues.
I don't know about you but i don't think it's my place to lecture her on her reasons for comming to Russia.
I simply advised her: "You don't mention what work you're doing but i would seriously consider everything before commiting yourself."

She can make up her own mind.

trebor
16-08-2009, 00:11
I'm quoting you.

Why is he? I said.

I have no idea. Why is she? :rolleyes:

Qdos
16-08-2009, 01:34
In this rare case I have to disagree with Qdos.

Yet you've also agreed; it is possible to get by on 32k plus a provided apartment. I never said there'd be any luxury on this salary, in fact I said the OP'd need to find a way to make some additional money :)

mido008
16-08-2009, 05:27
hi,
just want to add my perspective, for 32k RUB I will not survive, regardless that apartment is covered. I spend more than that for food, transport, and some restaurants and I have to same I shopping in smaller supermarkets out of garden ring.
Just if you take some figures somebody may correct me:
transport ticket for you and kid 3.5k
food per day 0.75k approx 21k
(counting in water)
cell phone bill 1k (actuactually have no idea about prices in this area)
internet if not provided with appartment 2k (actuactually have no idea about prices in this area)
and I guess you can add couple more ...

but final call is yours, just imagine you or your kid will get sick seriously, like happen to me this week and you will rather flight home instead of trying good luck here???

J.D.
16-08-2009, 06:30
I think you can 'survive' on 32000 a month but I can't imagine that they will be paying more for your apartment than your salary so I suspect that you will not be happy at all with your apartment.
I hope they are also paying your health insurance.
And if your daughter is going to the British or American school they will be paying more for her school than for your salary.
At a glance, things don't quite add up. I'd look very closely at your offer.

AndreyS
16-08-2009, 09:18
hi,
just want to add my perspective, for 32k RUB I will not survive, regardless that apartment is covered. I spend more than that for food, transport, and some restaurants and I have to same I shopping in smaller supermarkets out of garden ring.
Just if you take some figures somebody may correct me:
transport ticket for you and kid 3.5k
food per day 0.75k approx 21k
(counting in water)
cell phone bill 1k (actuactually have no idea about prices in this area)
internet if not provided with appartment 2k (actuactually have no idea about prices in this area)
and I guess you can add couple more ...

but final call is yours, just imagine you or your kid will get sick seriously, like happen to me this week and you will rather flight home instead of trying good luck here???

Internet access is within 500 r/month. Not 2000 at all.
Cell phone bill could be 1k , it depends on your calls, personally I spend bare 300 r.
I spend on transport 100 r/day.
Food could be 0,75 k, if you eat out.

trebor
16-08-2009, 14:11
Internet access is within 500 r/month. Not 2000 at all.
Cell phone bill could be 1k , it depends on your calls, personally I spend bare 300 r.
I spend on transport 100 r/day.
Food could be 0,75 k, if you eat out.

I would agree with that.
As i said in my post it depends on one's Life style. If you can't live without imported products and you have special needs, you'll struggle on 32,000 a month.
On the other hand, if you can 'live like a local' you'll find it easier.

AndreyS
16-08-2009, 14:18
I would agree with that.
As i said in my post it depends on one's Life style. If you can't live without imported products and you have special needs, you'll struggle on 32,000 a month.
On the other hand, if you can 'live like a local' you'll find it easier.

Absolutely. I agree with your each and every word.
If someone can't live without lobsters served for every lunch, then yes, they will have to earn much more than 32000 r. a month.

Bels
16-08-2009, 21:27
Point is that does anyone want to be attracted to come and live in Russia on simply surviving on a loaf of bread per day. And start worrying about what to do when they or their children are sick for example, and where are you are going to get the money out of your measly salary. Believe when you try to live here, there will be misers here trying to take money from here there, and everywhere, of which you don't have.

So what is the greater attraction of coming here, as it most certainly isn't the salary offer. What is your life like at the moment. All should tread carefully when making a serious move, expecially when children are involved. An individual single young person seeking adventure maybe, but once you are family and depending on age you should think carefully if you really would be better off. Think logically, and stop dreaming.

AndreyS
16-08-2009, 21:46
No doubt, she does That's why she asked about costs.
She said she had particular reasons for coming here, and it's not this salary offer.

Bels
16-08-2009, 22:21
No doubt, she does That's why she asked about costs.
She said she had particular reasons for coming here, and it's not this salary offer.

Accepted. But let's not be too personal here, as we are on a forum, others are reading this thread who are considering coming to Russia, either on high salaries as normally expected , and a few offered lousy salaries. They all need this discussion to be shared.

Many have particular reasons for coming here and different reasons like me. I didn't come to Russia for money for example, and I came by chance and different reasons.

But how do you encourage a woman with child to come to Russia, without considering that this person might be better off where she is. This might be perfect for this woman if she is already Russian and has Russian family support. But for a foreigner it could be a disaster for sure. Especially coming with a young child.

AndreyS
16-08-2009, 22:46
Yes, Bels. The discussion itself is very useful for other expats who might be considering their offers, with all of them having their reasons for coming here...
If the only reason was job and salary I would draw the line at minimum USD 3000 in hand (as you also said above)+accommodation. But again, it depends on particular people...
One of my acquaintances (EFL teacher - you almost all are EFL teachers LOL - except for Trebor), she once said; I often go to fashionable restaurants. What for? Just to relax, enjoy a nice atmosphere. I never eat anything there, I can't eat anything cooked by smb else. Yes, I am supposed to order food, and I do, but I never eat it. I prefer to cook for myself at home. Prices? For example, a glass of orange juice costs about 700 r.

trebor
17-08-2009, 05:07
Point is that does anyone want to be attracted to come and live in Russia on simply surviving on a loaf of bread per day..................

If the OP can shop in the Producti and the Rynok she will be living on far more than a loaf of bread a day.
I have found in the past that when i have put myself on a budget, i actually eat better.
The essentials like milk, cheese, eggs, fish, fruit and vegetables etc. are not that expensive if you know where to shop. And you don't need to eat meat everyday.

moscow77
17-08-2009, 10:45
at least 90000 rubles. plus apartment and transportation costs. 32000 you will spend in one week.

Viola
17-08-2009, 11:18
DTalon,

What kind of job have you been offered?
There is a certain market-based compensation level for every job. Your salary should be within what the market pay for your occupation/profession. Are you sure that you don't underprice?

mattology
17-08-2009, 11:43
at least 90000 rubles. plus apartment and transportation costs. 32000 you will spend in one week.

On what on earth are you spending 32.000 RUB per week? I have a full-time job, pay for my flat myself (and it's not cheap), need to pay for transportation and food and going out (cinema, restaurants, parties), and I make it easily on less than 10.000 RUB per week.

And I'm certainly not going to bed with an empty stomache...

IGIT
17-08-2009, 12:43
The lady has mentioned that she has other reasons (for her trip to russia) aside the job offer but I'm pretty certain folks will like to know what job she was offered?

32k/month? Tough call but certainly she can survive. The good thing though is that "apartment" is provided + her kid's school fees will be paid. Questions- is it a room in an apartment or the whole flat?

Frankly, if you add this all up, her "salary" is not bad and moreso that she is motivated to come but as most people have mentioned, your kid should be about the most important factor in your decision making. Maybe you have personal reasons for wanting to come to russia but DON'T let your kid face difficulties this early in life.

Transport (Metro, Bus, Trolleybus, Trams /month) = 1700x2
(Note: not more than 70 trips on Metro).
Food = depending on where you shop but you can spend up to 2-5k/month
Internet= as cheap as 500/month or cheaper depending on your provider.
TV, Furniture= again depending on your choice (LCD, plasma, leather chairs) which are pretty expensive or just the ordinary "Box TV" and local furniture.
Clothes= It depends on what and where you want to buy.

Hope this helps.

moscow77
17-08-2009, 13:16
i guess we are not going to same places. and have different perspectives of spending money.and i am not saying that i spend 32k everyweek.

mattology
17-08-2009, 13:45
i guess we are not going to same places. and have different perspectives of spending money.and i am not saying that i spend 32k everyweek.

In any case, 32k/week is certainly nothing like an average amount that people spend in Moscow. From what we know about the OP, she has other, personal reasons to come to Moscow rather than for a jolly good time having the fun of her life. So, the question whether she can survive on 32k/month and your answer that she needs 32k/week are way too far from each other.

Rather than just commenting with an amount you should be able to clarify why you think she needs that amount.

Bels
17-08-2009, 13:52
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

Does you your child speak Russian. If no. it looks like your employer will pay more for the child's education, and your apartment than what they will pay you in earnings a month.

To tell you truth the package isn't that bad providing you have full free health cover for both of you. At a guess worth at least 80,000 roubles a month.

What happens if you get the sack? Will your child get kicked out of school and both of you get kicked out of the flat? Is the contract permanent or temporary?

moscow77
17-08-2009, 14:33
at least 90k

Kartoshka
17-08-2009, 16:18
If housing and schooling is paid for, then you can easily get by on 32,000 a month. Like others have said, you will not be rich but you will not be scraping by either.

in lieu of flowers
17-08-2009, 16:21
at least 90kwhere is the HUH button?

AndreyS
17-08-2009, 16:25
where is the HUH button?
C'mon, he just can't survive a single day without grand lobsters.

in lieu of flowers
17-08-2009, 16:31
C'mon, he just can't survive a single day without grand lobsters.more like coke, methinks...

AndreyS
17-08-2009, 16:37
more like coke, methinks...

He will be drowning in floods of coke for 32000 in the near McDonalds.
Clutching at a straw! LOL

mesh
17-08-2009, 17:20
32 k is too low, 100 000 rur must be minimum.

mattology
17-08-2009, 17:24
32 k is too low, 100 000 rur must be minimum.

Why is that? If a flat is paid for, then why would you still need 100.000 RUR minimum wage?

In my opinion renting a flat eats up the largest proportion of your salary, if you don't want to live in a sh** hole. And the majority of expensive flats in Moscow fall under that category, unfortunately - the rest like groceries and other expenses are not a lot more expensive than in other parts of the world, if you know where to shop.

in lieu of flowers
17-08-2009, 19:19
He will be drowning in floods of coke for 32000 in the near McDonalds.
Clutching at a straw! LOLit is not that coke, sweetie...

in lieu of flowers
17-08-2009, 19:21
32 k is too low, 100 000 rur must be minimum.100 000 per month?! sheesh... that's what Im paying the lady who comes once a week to iron my tangas!

AndreyS
17-08-2009, 19:44
it is not that coke, sweetie...
I was joking, making fool of myself as usual...;

ezik
17-08-2009, 21:59
32k can be enough. Just shop at the markets, don't do any of the expensive stuff. You're basically on a middle-class Russian income with this amount. Millions of Russians survive on this or less.

One thing to keep in mind and worth negotiating with a kid involved is the medical insurance. Count on 25k or more per year for one kid. Unless you want to be stuck with the public health service, which I would certainly not recommend.

I wish you the best of luck reaching a decision.

AndreyS
17-08-2009, 22:03
And, Ezik, after you summed it up, it's high time to close the thread, right?
Just to stop this useless and dangerous discussion? ;-)

trebor
17-08-2009, 22:03
32k can be enough. Just shop at the markets, don't do any of the expensive stuff. You're basically on a middle-class Russian income with this amount. Millions of Russians survive on this or less.

One thing to keep in mind and worth negotiating with a kid involved is the medical insurance. Count on 25k or more per year for one kid. Unless you want to be stuck with the public health service, which I would certainly not recommend.

I wish you the best of luck reaching a decision.

Good post and sensible advice in my view.

Viola
17-08-2009, 22:13
Official consumer basket for Moscow for 2009 is ~10000 rub per month per person. In my estimation it is close to reality. It is not a luxe but not a survival minimun.
It also depends on either you will cook from scratch or prefer ready food, cooking from scratch is much cheaper (and much more healthier of course).
And girls :queen: are more expensive then boys :soccer: (depends on age though :)).

AndreyS
17-08-2009, 22:31
Folks, who's next? Let's discuss it until the 2nd coming.

trebor
17-08-2009, 22:46
Folks, who's next? Let's discuss it until the 2nd coming.

Good point but how will the messiah survive in Moscow when he arrives?
Surely he'd be alright on 32,000 a month? He'd survive for ages on just a couple of loaves and a few fish...............;)

AndreyS
17-08-2009, 22:50
Good point but how will the messiah survive in Moscow when he arrives?
Surely he'd be alright on 32,000 a month? He'd survive for ages on just a couple of loaves and a few fish...............;)

Sure. Remember He fed 5000 people with one fish and a couple of loaves of bread.

trebor
17-08-2009, 23:07
Sure. Remember He fed 5000 people with one fish and a couple of loaves of bread.

If you beleive the tabloids of course........:rolleyes: :D

Bels
17-08-2009, 23:33
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?



OK Dtalon. Something doesn't fit and |am not sure what it is . You have had a lot of feedback in posts. Would you please be more specific. We are not looking for your identity, however something is missing and questions have been asked.

When someone creates a thread I personally think they should lead it, rather than let others come up with assumptions which are obviously inaccurate.

Come on please , lead your thread!

Buckeye
17-08-2009, 23:47
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

Plenty of people here survive on less than that, and it is not poverty - it's just an "ok" life. If you have other reasons to come here, as you mentioned, then you will do ok.

in lieu of flowers
17-08-2009, 23:59
OK Dtalon. Something doesn't fit and |am not sure what it is . You have had a lot of feedback in posts. Would you please be more specific. We are not looking for your identity, however something is missing and questions have been asked.

When someone creates a thread I personally think they should lead it, rather than let others come up with assumptions which are obviously inaccurate.

Come on please , lead your thread!getting nazi, are we?

mattology
18-08-2009, 11:33
getting nazi, are we?

You didn't just write this, did you? :rolleyes:

tvadim133
18-08-2009, 12:01
Hi! Actually 32 000 rur is not enough but possible to live:

1. 400 rur for food per day (to cook at home) = 12 000 rur
2. 4000 rur for appartment (to pay for electricity, phone, service e.t.c.)
3. 16 000 rur for other cost like:
a. medecine, parfumes, tickets for underground e.t.c - 3 000 rur
b. to go to the cinema 3 times per month for one= 750 rur
c. to have lunch 20 working days in a month 300 rur per day - 6000 rur
d. clothes (!!!), theatres or entertaiment- 6 250 rur

Just for your convinience, 6 250 rur are:
1. to go to the restuarant for 2 - 2-3 times (depends upon the level of the restaurant);
2. or to buy 2 good T-Sirts or 5 bad;
3. or to buy one pair of shoes (not very expensive) or 3 pairs very cheap;
4. or to go 3 times to the theatre

Not luxary.....

But My advice is not to agree on the offer of this kind.
The level of salary is what waitresses or taxi drivers get

SV1973a
18-08-2009, 12:22
Yes 1000 USD, which is about 32000 RUB, is what we pay our driver.
For `intellectual` work as a teacher, you should be able to get better.
For a reference, our sales engineers get 3200 USD.

tukiva
18-08-2009, 13:17
you can survive on this money but never can live on it.

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 14:10
our sales engineers get 3200 USD.

And what of it? Our CEO earns USD 20000 a month (on average).

SV1973a
18-08-2009, 14:32
And what of it? Our CEO earns USD 20000 a month (on average).

Well, I suppose that this lady has a university degree, so the benchmark for university trained engineers seems closer for her, than comparing with salaries of drivers and waitresses.
She definitely will not be offered a job as CEO, right ?

Viola
18-08-2009, 15:06
Folks, who's next? Let's discuss it until the 2nd coming.

You mean until the author of this thead will come and thank us :bowdown:? :)

in lieu of flowers
18-08-2009, 19:34
You didn't just write this, did you? :rolleyes:nothing personal, mein... ah... whatever...

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 19:54
Well, I suppose that this lady has a university degree, so the benchmark for university trained engineers seems closer for her, than comparing with salaries of drivers and waitresses.
She definitely will not be offered a job as CEO, right ?

You underestimate her. In my book, she seems to be Ph,D. in physics and F.R.S.

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 20:25
nothing personal, mein...

Sweetie???

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 20:32
Hi! Actually 32 000 rur is not enough but possible to live:

1. 400 rur for food per day (to cook at home) = 12 000 rur
2. 4000 rur for appartment (to pay for electricity, phone, service e.t.c.)
3. 16 000 rur for other cost like:
a. medecine, parfumes, tickets for underground e.t.c - 3 000 rur
b. to go to the cinema 3 times per month for one= 750 rur
c. to have lunch 20 working days in a month 300 rur per day - 6000 rur
d. clothes (!!!), theatres or entertaiment- 6 250 rur

Just for your convinience, 6 250 rur are:
1. to go to the restuarant for 2 - 2-3 times (depends upon the level of the restaurant);
2. or to buy 2 good T-Sirts or 5 bad;
3. or to buy one pair of shoes (not very expensive) or 3 pairs very cheap;
4. or to go 3 times to the theatre

Not luxary.....

But My advice is not to agree on the offer of this kind.
The level of salary is what waitresses or taxi drivers get

Halve every amount and they will become correct, imho.

alxndr
18-08-2009, 22:10
i'm a student and very limited in financial resources. ) and be sure as for me near 16KRUR is enough to buy food, clothes, sometimes hang out and have a meal in cafe or go to cinema. this is exluding of course apartment rent. i live alone. internet costs about 500 rur. cell phone - 500-1000 rur per month.

SV1973a
18-08-2009, 22:16
Hi AndreyS,
What is F.R.S. ?

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 22:37
Hi AndreyS,
What is F.R.S. ?
Hi mate.
Fellow of the Royal Society.

There are many more other good abbreviations btw.

ele_naidi
18-08-2009, 22:44
The discussion slowly comes to a topic "The Richest Man of The Moscow Expat Forum" :verycool:
:)

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 22:47
The discussion slowly comes to a topic "The Richest Man of The Moscow Expat Forum" :verycool:
:)

Who's him?
Congrats with your first post! You are not innocent anymore!

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 22:56
Right now, from CNN on the topic:

A young Chinese musician being interviewed by Anjali Rao:
You can survive on 100 yuans (=15 USD) a month here in China. You can also survive on 10000 yans a month.

ezik
18-08-2009, 22:56
And, Ezik, after you summed it up, it's high time to close the thread, right?
Just to stop this useless and dangerous discussion? ;-)

NO WAY!
It is CRISIS man! We need all the clicks and reads we can get!!! ;-)

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 23:03
NO WAY!
It is CRISIS man! We need all the clicks and reads we can get!!! ;-)

You see I am, being a devoted member, doing my utmost making as many senseless posts as I can, just to support the site.

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 23:11
The discussion slowly comes to a topic "The Richest Man of The Moscow Expat Forum" :verycool:
:)

Remember? "Slow but steady progress wins the race" (The Tortoise and The Hare, by Aesop)

ezik
18-08-2009, 23:13
You see I am being a devoted member do my utmost making as many senseless post as I can, just to support the site.

Much appreciated! This very post of yours may convince the capitalists running this site to finally save me from having to sell fake diplomas in the metro station!

GaNozri
18-08-2009, 23:19
I don't understand the point of this discussion. One can survive on 32000rub, on 10000rub, or on $10000. Depending on the way of life he/she is used to. If one is used to drinking Remy Martin with a cuban cigar every day, then obviously he wouldn't consider 32000 per month.

The woman asked if she could survive on the amount, that's all. Obviously, she has private reasons for coming here, which she is not prepared to share.

Saying how much more YOU earn, and how much you pay your driver, or nanny, is in no way helpful to the OP, just makes you look like an arrogant snob!

AndreyS
18-08-2009, 23:32
I don't understand the point of this discussion. One can survive on 32000rub, on 10000rub, or on $10000. Depending on the way of life he/she is used to. If one is used to drinking Remy Martin with a cuban cigar every day, then obviously he wouldn't consider 32000 per month.

The woman asked if she could survive on the amount, that's all. Obviously, she has private reasons for coming here, which she is not prepared to share.

Saying how much more YOU earn, and how much you pay your driver, or nanny, is in no way helpful to the OP, just makes you look like an arrogant snob!

Absolutely. It all boils down to definition of survival. My version goes with yours - Remy Martin goes with grand lobsters, right?

And yes, some info is excessive...

in lieu of flowers
18-08-2009, 23:57
Sweetie???nah... no such word in German...

SV1973a
18-08-2009, 23:59
Saying how much more YOU earn, and how much you pay your driver, or nanny, is in no way helpful to the OP, just makes you look like an arrogant snob!

Neh, you`re just saying that because YOU don`t have a driver...

PS. Neither have I, btw (AndreyS, big thanks for this abbreviation also)

GaNozri
19-08-2009, 00:02
Neh, you`re just saying that because YOU don`t have a driver...

PS. Neither have I, btw (AndreyS, big thanks for this abbreviation also)

Yeah, I've let go the driver, in order to pay my butler and gardener. Damn crisis!

AndreyS
19-08-2009, 00:02
nah... no such word in German...

Nevermind, it's in lieu of German word, ;-)

ezik
19-08-2009, 00:14
There have been enough visions and budget breakdowns to answer the questions.

I think that 32k is considered do-able, unless you want an extravagant lifestyle. It's far from a classical Expat package, but something that can be easily called an "average" income in Moscow. Note that the average income in Moscow is still three times higher than the average income in Russia.

I'm not sure what still could be added to this thread. Shall we leave the original poster the opportunity to react?

AndreyS
19-08-2009, 00:17
Looks like she left us for good. She gave up on us.
We shocked her with Remy Martins, private drivers and fake dipomas.

ezik
19-08-2009, 00:27
Looks like she left us for good. She gave up on us.
We shocked her with Remy Martins, private drivers and fake dipomas.

Erhm... my fake diplomas are real, actually... Except for the fact that someone else studied for it...

I'm afraid you are right. Another valuable new member lost...

Unless...

AndreyS
19-08-2009, 00:36
Erhm... my fake diplomas are real, actually... Except for the fact that someone else studied for it...

I'm afraid you are right. Another valuable new member lost...

Unless...

In that case I am solemnly promising to stand in for her and post twice as much bullshit as I used to.

in lieu of flowers
19-08-2009, 01:44
Yeah, I've let go the driver, in order to pay my butler and gardener. Damn crisis!
You let go your driver?! I had to let go my scrubber in order to pay my buffer and rubber!

GaNozri
19-08-2009, 01:49
You let go your driver?! I had to let go my scrubber in order to pay my buffer and rubber!

You let go your scrubber?! Now that is beeing humble! I on the other hand, have to draw the line somewhere. The scrubber goes last!

in lieu of flowers
19-08-2009, 01:52
well... the wiper is still there...

GaNozri
19-08-2009, 01:54
well... the wiper is still there...

Thank God!

tvadim133
19-08-2009, 17:19
Halve every amount and they will become correct, imho.

My be you are right, but I calculated the budget with some stock just in case

Zakaria
25-08-2009, 12:04
It's impossible to live for 32k per month in Moscow especially with a family

Qdos
25-08-2009, 13:08
You let go your driver?! I had to let go my scrubber in order to pay my buffer and rubber!

I admit to doing a slight 'double-take' there, finding the words 'rubber' and 'scrubber' employed in the same sentence... :p

Mario
03-09-2009, 17:12
How on earth were were you tempted in such a lousy offer. Surely there is much more in USA somewhere. There is certainly something much better in offer in Britain. I could find you a better offer in Britain as a toilet cleaner and even better disposing garbage from homes I can offer you double. What on earth are you being offered in Russia LOL. Come on please , as I know that really you were joking. Unless you accidently forgot a few zeros.

I think I'm missing something. It's 700 euro's per month. Everything is paid for: education for his child, appartment. I don't know where it is. But if it's Moscow or Piter that what is wrong with 700 euro's? I did it for 350 euro's per month with my girlfriend. And with that, I could even go out n eat once in a while. 700 euro's surely ain't bad, the way I see it.

Bels
03-09-2009, 17:33
Was your girlfriend getting paid more than you? And what about if it was an income for a family?

Mario
03-09-2009, 18:33
No she didn't get anything as a student.
It's just he and his daughter right? Besides, I doubt his daugher is eating more than I do ;)

Bels
03-09-2009, 18:40
Mr Scrooge must be very happy if he has you as a satisfied employee:)

Mario
03-09-2009, 21:44
haha well all in all it's fair to say that you would get more than double, if they didn't pay the education costs and housing costs for you. Or am I completely wrong now?

Bels
03-09-2009, 22:05
haha well all in all it's fair to say that you would get more than double, if they didn't pay the education costs and housing costs for you. Or am I completely wrong now?

You have to live here for some time to find out. Medical costs are not free in Moscow, in fact very costly, time consuming and not good quality. 640 pounds a month is garbage in Moscow. You will soon learn if you wish to settle here and go the various processes of redtape here. Perhaps you want residency, and put up with your visa trips back to your own country every three months. How have you recently experienced the necessary travelling costs you need to do due to having a visa. The time you need to spend on redtape and work as well. I;m sorry you have not experienced what it will cost with the added responsibility of having a child. My guess without looking at your personal is that you are very young and have no idea.

If you are coming to settle in Moscow for a few years , your attitude will eventually change, due to maturity and experience of Russia.

Bels
03-09-2009, 22:08
And as I stated in previous posts in this thread, I show suspicion that this company will pay for an international school for example. As this child is likely speaking English.

Mario
04-09-2009, 01:05
Well we both don't know the details, but I'm sure things like that are included. Medical things and all the paperwork to get there. I also think it's fair enough to assume so, as it's a British or American company. I do have the experience to know, what it's like living in Russia. True, only 6 months so far. And not a child. But assuming it's all been taking care of (I can hardly believe it isn't), it should be all good.

If ain't included, then obviously it's not an option.

dlc7474
07-09-2009, 05:00
wow, now i am highly confused...

Mario
07-09-2009, 12:13
wow, now i am highly confused...

I guess that's my bad. In that case I have some new advice for you. You better trust Bels on this.

Bels
07-09-2009, 12:40
Maybe you are confused in the same manner that I am. Where can you find a job advertising a British or American vacancy offering 32000 roubles per month (approx 160 GB pounds per week) and where the extra package of flat, healthcare, schooling etc are worth much more than the salary. And that that your child will also be accomadated.

atethepaint
08-09-2009, 20:25
lol...this thread became really funny for a bit there...can you please go back to discussing grand lobster and rubber scrubbers?

Gambit
09-09-2009, 18:06
I don't think that to come here for that amount of money is a good idea.

in lieu of flowers
09-09-2009, 20:53
lol...this thread became really funny for a bit there...can you please go back to discussing grand lobster and rubber scrubbers?no no no... there were not rubber scrubbers... they were the Rubber and the Scrubber... and good ones at that!

Alcibiades
10-09-2009, 16:45
Ridiculous. You can easily survive on 32000 rubles a month, especially since you don't have to pay rent.

Alcibiades
10-09-2009, 16:58
Hi Newbie,
Honestly: If I wouldn`t have the money to enjoy life here and to be able to realise my hobbys like swimming, fitness and tennis I woud take the first airplain and fligh back home! At the beginning maybe u don`t feel so depend on these things, but when u realise that you are really limitated in your aktivities u think twice if living in Moscow is such a good deal.
Think twice before giving up your normal life.

This presupposes that the person in question cares about swimming, fitness, and tennis (why would one have to pay for these things anyway? You can swim in the lake and jog and play tennis in the park. OK I admit this will pose a problem in the winter.).

Moscow is very affordable if... you don't go out. At least 60% of my budget goes to food, because I almost never eat at home. If I actually cooked on occasion, I would be rich as Croesus.

32000 rubles (circa $1000) is actually what a lot of foreigners in Moscow make who are language instructors, copy editors and so forth.

Although it is notably less than the average wage (which is about $1500 -- I think), it is not grinding poverty.

tarasbmal
15-09-2009, 13:10
I agree with Bels. If I was offered a 32k-job in Moscow I would never accept it, especially if I was a foregner. 32k is too little for Moscow.
I know this subject, because I'm Russian and work in Moscow.

oscarverbumdei
15-09-2009, 15:29
everything is confusing..
the company has to clarify what they offer.
I've been living here for more than six years and i know that that's a very small salary for a family.

dancer18
22-09-2009, 14:28
I think you can definitely do well on this salary. It also depends where you live and how much you plan to spend on transportation. I have a similar salary and can pretty much afford whatever I want. But I live outside the city centre and things are pretty cheap here.

Bels
22-09-2009, 14:50
I ljust to live outside the city in Ruza area and I find it more expensive than Moscow. Besides does an expat family want to come all the way to Russia to survive on less than what they get at home. If from Britain they will lose a lot including health with dental treatment for example. Children and pensioners have free medical care in Britain and heavily subsidised for adults.

am4rw
22-09-2009, 23:25
Ah sorry :)
I didn't realize my query would elicit such concern.

I am the mother of this child. My husband is dead.

I have personal reasons for wanting to be in Moscow and substantial savings that I can defray expenses with. I simply wondered what basic living expenses were in the city, living a basic comfortable lifestyle.

if anyone cares to, please give me an estimate on what this costs.

We will not be going out for expensive dinners, to nightclubs, or be maintaining a car.

If you can live in the states on $1000/month, housing paid for, then you can live in Moscow on that amount. Personally, I would consider it too tight. You will be drawing down those substantial savings. The last time I checked health insurance alone for one person would take at least a quarter of your earnings.

GaNozri
22-09-2009, 23:35
If from Britain they will lose a lot including health with dental treatment for example.

You mean, there is dental treatment in Britain? Wouldn't know by looking at the Brits.

Bels
23-09-2009, 09:29
You mean, there is dental treatment in Britain? Wouldn't know by looking at the Brits.

You obviously haven't seen enough of them, or have been watching too many old movies. Such as Joan of Arc

Bels
23-09-2009, 22:49
You mean, there is dental treatment in Britain? Wouldn't know by looking at the Brits.

Do you have good dental treatment in Moscow. Where you don't pay a small fortune? Like a few thousand pounds of which you don't have. What about fillings, bridges, crowns, and such as you get older? What do you do in Russia if you haven't got much money. In England we have special type of chemical in our water called flouride which keeps our teeth strong, and in Russia we can't even drink the water of which is often orange from the rusty pipes.

Yes in all reality people in Britain should be one of the best for teeth, it used to be free , but now adults pay, but not horrendous prices they pay in Russia or USA.

Russia now has a problem, as have become what they most hated, they have more capitalist than America. Even their so called state health care are charging cash. And depending what it is , very with very poor quality.

So honestly, British do have better teeth than the average paid Russian, and better teeth than the American who can't afford their health insurance.

And children and pensioners in UK have an excellent dental, medical, and optician service free of charge. So who are the real socialists now?

THE western EU of course.

alexplayer
07-10-2009, 12:10
As everyone else has said, you may survive, but that will be about it. Thats not enough to do anything else really, and especially as you have a daughter which you need to consider,i think its best you refuse the offer. Even for twice the amount they offered, it would still not be easy. Stay where u are for now, as its not worth suffering in poverty.

xSnoofovich
07-10-2009, 13:05
So honestly, British do have better teeth than the average paid Russian, and better teeth than the American who can't afford their health insurance.




HAHAHHAHAAA, that is a good one !

kcb536
11-10-2009, 12:32
This is a bit low, but if you have your housing and education already included, it might not be bad. You just have to be aware that you won't be able to spend much on other things. I mean, not much eating out or buying new clothes. And no chance of putting money away. But I think it's doable if you want the experience and like the position.

LaFoxis
20-10-2009, 15:00
Hi, Christie!

Which swimming pool are you visiting in Moscow?

Frida
20-10-2009, 19:18
Hi, I am professional Russian teacher and I am communicating with foreigners a lot! You are welcome. Moscow is interesting city with art excibitions, museums , etc... But It's no fresh air, crowded, a lot of cars. It's really pricy even if you compare with Helsinki, for example. The quality of food is not very good. But it's a good choice for choosing new life. You will decide a lot of problems and be busy all the time)))

Frida
22-10-2009, 13:24
I told about your desition to my student- he only asks what country are u from?

nohamas
29-10-2009, 22:38
Hi Newbie,
just a little comment how I make life here in Moscow. I like trying to find good cheap markets, possibilities to buy food and other stuff for good prices. But I cannot say that the advantages of living in Moscow are so many. Honestly: If I wouldn`t have the money to enjoy life here and to be able to realise my hobbys like swimming, fitness and tennis I woud take the first airplain and fligh back home! At the beginning maybe u don`t feel so depend on these things, but when u realise that you are really limitated in your aktivities u think twice if living in Moscow is such a good deal.
Think twice before giving up your normal life.
dear, am a new comer to moscow, it may be a nice looking city but in fact i face many problems in it, starting from the language as i have no idea about the russian language, in addition to finding reasonable price international school for my daughters, to finding a job for my husband, am well compensated but still i want to learn from you how to deal and enjoy staying in this city, each day i face problems and complications and i ask myself why i did this, why left my home country to come here

Bels
29-10-2009, 22:42
dear, am a new comer to moscow, it may be a nice looking city but in fact i face many problems in it, starting from the language as i have no idea about the russian language, in addition to finding reasonable price international school for my daughters, to finding a job for my husband, am well compensated but still i want to learn from you how to deal and enjoy staying in this city, each day i face problems and complications and i ask myself why i did this, why left my home country to come here

And on reading your post I bet your family is on more than 32k roubles a month

LadyB
30-10-2009, 13:36
Lots of discussions going on around 32k RR salary topic. It should be quite difficult to reach the conclusion, since people in this forum have different incomes and are used to different lifestyles. The most important person, who started the topic is lost, so everyone keep guessing possible conditions of her lifestyle and reasons for moving to Moscow. DTalon, please say something. Would be nice to hear what you think of all these messages! :)

askukhar2000
30-10-2009, 13:41
`yes, you can live comfortably that way.

Bels
30-10-2009, 13:52
`yes, you can live comfortably that way.

Yes it's a good monthly budget to keep my pet dog living comfortably :)

tukiva
30-10-2009, 14:11
`yes, you can live comfortably that way.

i m really very very curious- how is it possible to live comfortably fo 32k a month?? can you give me a list of things you can comfortably get for thi amount?

Inostranets
30-10-2009, 17:52
This is a very interesting topic.

I have been to the capital city a couple of times before- as well other cities well to the east in RU.

I truly believe it is very possible to have a pretty nice life (upper 20%) in those "other cities" for 1000usd/month - yet Moscow - Vot eta Ya Ne Znau.

chartreuse
30-10-2009, 19:39
i m really very very curious- how is it possible to live comfortably fo 32k a month?? can you give me a list of things you can comfortably get for thi amount?

Commute: 80 rub/day or less (public transportation)
Food: 500 rub/day (steak, pasta, fish, fruits/veggies, prepared at home)
Alcohol: 5000 rub/month (wine/vodka/scotch/brandy)
Dining out: 5000 rub/month (occasionally)
Internet: 500 rub/month
Misc: 2000 rub/month
Rent: FREE (thatís what the original poster said)
--------------------------------------------
Total: 29,900 rub a month

If a person is in Moscow for reasons other than simply making lots of dough, this amount will be sufficient to provide a normal, comfortable living. However, for a talented individual with the right set of skills, it is possible to make significantly more.

AndreyS
30-10-2009, 19:48
And I for one can easily go about without monthly alcohol and dining out, subtracting the amounts. Also possible to cut down on those daily steaks, halving food cost...

Bels
30-10-2009, 19:56
Err necessary visa trips, flights, holidays, yours and your children's check-ups and health care, all sorts of never ending red-tape costs for Russians, children and expats. Your family's food, clothing, and education costs. Your future bigger house? The costs go on and on. And err! TAX? Local and national.

Bels
30-10-2009, 20:01
And what about a car? and the running costs of it. Aren't we good enough to have a car if we are living in Russia. In some areas and for some people it's essential.

AndreyS
30-10-2009, 20:10
I can add, that it all DEPENDS. One of my friends (he is a businessman) told me not long ago that he happened to tot up his monthly all-in spending on a living, and he got the result of 450 000 r./mo.

Bels
30-10-2009, 20:28
I can add, that it all DEPENDS. One of my friends (he is a businessman) told me not long ago that he happened to tot up his monthly all-in spending on a living, and he got the result of 450 000 r./mo.

Now we are talking, that'll do me. Unfortunately I'm still working on that one.
Let's make this the national minimum rate in Russia. And that's the law.

AndreyS
30-10-2009, 20:31
Take up more students, Bels. Remember I wished you 90? Did you live up to my expectations?

Bels
30-10-2009, 20:41
Unfortunately no. Classes are very small and more like 50, but that's ok as I have several one to ones in the classroom, with a number of local house calls. However enquiries do continue every month. As long as I don't get too much red-tape interferance and keep the continuity I will continue to grow.

Perhaps it is better that way as I may well keep certain markets throughout the Summer. Of course the oligarchs can pay more. Where as my local children groups can't afford the same, but it's the teaching of my local children groups I love teaching the best. I still have a few small group of whom I have been teaching from pure beginner level for nearly five years now, and I am very proud of them and the results I got from them.

AndreyS
30-10-2009, 20:46
I like your attitude! Though your work is demanding, you get great job-satisfsaction. I understand the feeling... And even when you feel braindead tonight, a couple of beers will for sure bring you round, right? So - keep gobbling up EFL market. ;-)

serb12
22-11-2009, 02:13
its possible, but very basic....now is a good time of year for job search so maybe you can try to find something with higher salary

Yulichka
26-11-2009, 10:43
I am sorry but I think that all the posts about the chances of getting better-paid jobs as a toilet cleaner in the UK etc. etc. are ridiculous. Russia is a different country altogether and the average wage in Moscow is around 30k/month.

Yes, it is an expensive city, but not as expensive as London. Rent prices are probably the trickiest part, but you've got that covered. Stick to food markets, affordable supermarkets and public transport and you will be fine. Utility bills and taxes (after you spend 3 months in the country) are much lower than in the UK.

One thing I agree on with some posters is health insurance. Although health care is free in Russia, those who can do go private, so I would try and negotiate that into your employment package with your company.

Otherwise, if the job you've been offered has other advantages then I wouldn't let the salary put you off. Once you are here, you can look into other options because yes you can earn so much more as a foreigner here, but let's not forget job satisfaction etc.

Good luck!

asucka
26-11-2009, 16:31
Yes, it is definitely agood amount to survive, but it is definitely not going to be a luxury lifestyle.

DTalon
28-11-2009, 21:57
I didn't realize thise thread had gotton so long...
I have a very close friend in Moscow, we would like to get to know each other better.
I also have an income independent of the job I was offered.
To be straight with everyone, I was a bit lost when I came here and I wanted to try and gather some information on my own in terms on the cost of living and if I could defray some of my expenses by working a bit while I was there.
Please don't worry, I have things covered if I am not able to work there, my child will be fine, all expenses will be covered.
That doesn't mean I want to waste my resources needlessly.

Thank you to everyone who commented!

Bels
28-11-2009, 22:22
LOL :) I didn't realise myself this thread would go on so long either. However when you think about it, it is a major topic for many here, and it shouldn't be taken personally. In fact you have brought up a major topic for most expats in any country in the the world. This is in fact act amajor discussion in every expat forum in the world.

Many of us are thinking of you , but at the same time time you brought up a major issue concerning many who are thinking about coming here. Yes hopefully we are helping you with our personal experince of this country now, but our discussions are hopefully helping others thinking about coming here. A forum is to help many, with many minds to help each other, that is what expat.ru is all about. Sometimes we need debate, and it is up to you as a member to decide who is right, and who is wrong. I love debates.

And DTalon, this is your thread, and thank you for keeping your response with it.

lady A
30-11-2009, 22:45
Good luck with 32kk a month))))

AndreyS
30-11-2009, 22:51
Good luck with 32kk a month))))

Lots of people earn less.

Bels
01-12-2009, 00:23
Lots of people earn less.

I know, and I worry about them, including our Babooshka who fought whose husband fought in the second world War, but who has to take care of her, we do!

But we are talking about foriegners dciding to come to Russia and how they should live and survive. Medical care for example is very high in cost here, and the time and energy you you have with the visits. It is all part od take tings for granted, this is not available in Russia. It is a lot of hasssle for medical treatment here, and you don't know for sure if they are all fully qualified. But what is for sure is that they will be seeking extra cash from you, and that is for sure. State or no state.

istra123
11-01-2010, 16:22
yes, you can survive on that. just try to budget things out. no expensive restaurants and cabs. people live on much less out here, so you'll be fine.

orlando771
11-01-2010, 18:13
1. will you have a 1 year work permit or 3 months?
because my first year i could only get 3 months at a time and going back and forth costs at least 1000 usd. you wont be able to do much more with that kind of offer, and you have a kid. tough.. you can survive on it but you cant save a dime.. and if you cant save, there is no point for you to go anywhere..

Peter82
28-01-2010, 17:21
difficult, very difficult, but by no means impossible.

AndreyS
28-01-2010, 18:02
difficult, very difficult, but by no means impossible.
Not especially difficult imho, just don't eat out...

Anjelina Jolie
28-01-2010, 18:44
This will not allow to you to feel free and comfortable. It will be like surviving. Do you want that?

Bels
28-01-2010, 22:27
And from the time this thread has been posted, due to extreme inflation rate in Moscow, together with inflation, it is now impossible for a person to enter Russia for the first time and live with 32000 roubles per month. In fact I earn between 1500-2000 roubles per hour here, and I find it difficult to move forward here with a family of five. I find it very difficult to save and move forward with this income, although I can live. I am thinking about raising my fees. Risky I know.


This will not allow to you to feel free and comfortable. It will be like surviving. Do you want that?

Pun
15-02-2010, 23:21
hi

I am coming to moscow for a stay of 3 weeks.My budget is limited to 125 USD per day. How affordable is to stay in moscow with this kind of budget.

I do no drink alcohol, and i am a vegetarian.


Thanks

pearllysun
15-02-2010, 23:44
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?


I sure can live with even lesser than that ...but as a single .....

food would be around 6000roubles .....internet 1000roubles....health insurance ?? ( shld be around 150 - 200 usd a year for an individual ) ....clothing might be a bit costly .....

but u see ,,,,,as a family any extra expenses would sure hold u much tight ......

but i would never discourage u from going to Moscow ......

spmoscow
16-02-2010, 00:06
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

too many posts to track the complete history.

But curious to know,what decision you took for the offered job finally?(may be you have already answered this question but i can't go thru all the posts:-) but my good luck and best wishes for any decision which you might have taken! In hindsight it is good to listen to advices/informations but finally it boils down to you to take the risk and go with your own gut decision..thats my personal opinion.

nbogaard
16-02-2010, 07:46
We have a driver, a housekeeper and a nanny. Every one of them makes more than that. Can you get by on that if other expenses are covered? I suppose so but why would you want to? For example, who is going to watch your child while you are earning this inadequate salary. They will cost money too. I would recommend against this.

Bels
16-02-2010, 23:48
Are there no better offers these days? All I can say is that you really do want to come to Moscow. So why do you you want to come, as it certainly isn't money.

coopea
19-02-2010, 17:46
That may have been moderately acceptably a number of years ago, but I personally would not accept such an offer. It sounds as if there is a little too much to be stretching 32K rubles over a month.... especially for 2.

Bels
20-02-2010, 22:28
That may have been moderately acceptably a number of years ago, but I personally would not accept such an offer. It sounds as if there is a little too much to be stretching 32K rubles over a month.... especially for 2.

Ifyo have a family tou must be repsonsible for your family. This must be
100.000 roubles per month. And this id without acccomadation costs, and any other costs an expat might face, including health and education for your family, and any other necessry cover. This is is fact due to the costs in Russia. Now if you are coming here as an expat? Then you should expect much more. As you will probably get more in your home country. Can I say any more.

We are all here for some reason, and mine wasn't money , it was love. If your reason is money and savings and money for the future , then the figure I have mentioned must be at least five times this amount.

Ana
20-02-2010, 22:42
It's going to be a bit tough in my opinion. Don't forget you have a child.. I wouldn't recomend you to go here for that money unless you really want to go to Russia..

Newmoscovite
21-02-2010, 10:28
I earn 15 000 rubles for 7 hours teaching each week and it's good ammount of money to live from. 8000 would mean substence living with no luxuries. You will need to have your apartemtn paid for you otherwise No chance of surving

tasel
21-02-2010, 23:25
32k rubles for a person with child in Moscow (specially foreigner) would've been good pay in the early 90's but not now. Atleast 50k can do better but still not good enough. You will end up with empty pocket before 15th of the calendar day.
Your ransportation charge wil cost you in average of 10% of your salary and think about the rest and Moscow is not cheaper.

marus
23-02-2010, 17:56
You have a child and the salary you have been offered is frankly a pittance for Moscow,even more so for an ex-pat!!This will just about cover your rent,and not in a very nice area...but most of all,much of Moscow is not only stressful,overcrowded and grimy but also polluted and unhealthy to live in for anyone,even more so for a child!Unless you really live somewhere terrible now,you owe it to your kid to re-consider going there!The effects on their health may be invisible to start with but they could suffer for the rest of their life.I have many Russian friends in Moscow who want to leave for their kids sake(as well as their own!) but do not have the means or opportunity to do so!
I think Bels,who lives in one of the suburbs which is reknowned for having a cleaner environment,will back me up on this point?No way could you afford to rent there for even a week on 32.000 roubles though!
In your case I think you have little to gain and everything to regret.Sorry to be so blunt but I cannot see your justification,not to earn that amount!

retype
04-08-2010, 00:30
This is an average salary in moscow. You can cover these basic expenses but not more

mesugener
05-08-2010, 18:22
minimum survival level for very frugal single alien in moscow is Rbl 60000 a month

kassandra
05-08-2010, 18:46
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

You can survive on this money but not live.

splinter64
07-08-2010, 13:51
IMHO you could survive here if most of your basic costs are covered - but I do think it will be much of a life.

Other Posts are right - many Russians survive on $1k or less (sometimes much less).

For any degree of safety - I think you need to be looking at $3k as a minimum. This is only c.Rb90k - if you do anything out of the ordinary, I think you can quickly eat into that and not have a lot left for anything else.

Whatever you decide - good luck. It will definitely be interesting here. I think we can all guarantee - you will never be bored.

AndreyS
07-08-2010, 13:57
minimum survival level for very frugal single alien in moscow is Rbl 60000 a month

LOL
Why not say USD 60000 a month??? Where are you from? Did you ever have to SURVIVE?

AndreyS
07-08-2010, 13:58
IMHO you could survive here if most of your basic costs are covered - but I do think it will be much of a life.

Other Posts are right - many Russians survive on $1k or less (sometimes much less).

For any degree of safety - I think you need to be looking at $3k as a minimum. This is only c.Rb90k - if you do anything out of the ordinary, I think you can quickly eat into that and not have a lot left for anything else.

Whatever you decide - good luck. It will definitely be interesting here. I think we can all guarantee - you will never be bored.
M8, she made her decision a year ago.

mk182
07-08-2010, 14:50
minimum survival level for very frugal single alien in moscow is Rbl 60000 a month

Sure, if by frugal you mean living across the street from the Kremlin, drinking champaign for breakfast and eating out every single night and enjoy a personal driver.

I got by on 30K just fine, especially if they pay for your apartment. Its not money you can retire on but if you want to be in Russia its plenty.

raperak47
07-08-2010, 16:48
YES exactly!. Why move from a first world country to a thirld world offer. Suicide ideals perhaps?


if its a third world country why don't you return back to UK then.

waxyweller
07-08-2010, 16:50
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?

.... If U won't be clubbing too much, if U won't be taking Taxi's ... then 32000 rubbles should be ok for food and ofcourse U won't be buying cloths every month )))) i can survive with it even if i have to pay for apartment out of it... but as a new comer U will learn to economize as time goes on.. don't buy done food.. buy stuffs and cook at home )):lick:

mk182
07-08-2010, 16:55
Russia isn't a 3rd world country and never has been.

*"The term 'Third World' arose during the Cold War to define countries that remained non-aligned or not moving at all with either capitalism and NATO (which along with its allies represented the First World) or communism and the Soviet Union (which along with its allies represented the Second World)"*

The whole "World class" system was just an invention by western economists in the 80's to separate "us" from "them".
First world was defined really as the US and their allies. Everyone else 2nd or 3rd world depending on how socialist leaning they were.
While the UK technically is rated as 1st world, when you compare it to 2nd and 3rd world countries its more second world.

Gov run health care, TV taxes, Road taxes, a monarchy, HUGE TV and Internet monopolies not to mention an alive and well class system. These are all ingredients of a second world country.

So, don't complain when you move from a technically second world country to a real one and you aren't swimming in money. Its called reality!

mk182
07-08-2010, 16:57
Not to mention the gallons and gallons of Jack Daniels and Chivas Rigal I go through every month. 32k is/was plenty. Anyone who's ever bought whiskey in Russia knows how incredibly and ridiculously it is marked up. Unless you want that mouthwash "Red horse" *barf*.

If you can make a budget you can survive.

AndreyS
07-08-2010, 20:51
Sure, if by frugal you mean living across the street from the Kremlin, drinking champaign for breakfast and eating out every single night and enjoy a personal driver.



And lobsters, grand lobsters for each and every lunch.

mk182
08-08-2010, 04:01
How silly of me!

As you can see I'm definitely not a frugal expat!

Bels
12-08-2010, 22:43
Survive on what, On bread at 30 roubles and water at6 60 roubles per litre? Fine But this person wants to live. And prices here are getting ridiculous apart from poisonous cigarattes and cheap poisinous vodka, perhaps travel costs are cheap , apart from overpriced taxis. Believe me , the Russians will be hit by inflation very soon!! This will be the stage when they can pay no more, because the income is no longer there. This will happen very soon. No major companies paying high salaries now! And the very percentage of oligarchs in the west won't help the sellers, as there is not enough of them.

MATHS! Fast high inflation means recession and disaster. After inflation comes recession. No buyers! Nobody can afford to shop! Absolute disaster! And strange as it might seem, there apppears to be no control in Russia on inflation. Hence disaster!!


Not to mention the gallons and gallons of Jack 70 and Chivas Rigal I go through every month. 32k is/was plenty. Anyone who's ever bought whiskey in Russia knows how incredibly and ridiculously it is marked up. Unless you want that mouthwash "Red horse" *barf*.

If you can make a budget you can survive.

FJT
13-08-2010, 11:26
Hi,
I've found this article for you. It is a feedback on life cost in Moscow for what it is worth : http://rbth.ru/articles/2010/06/02/how_cheap_is_moscow.html
Good luck!
FJT

Nothernsun
26-08-2010, 00:35
My whole salary is 32 ))) And I have to pay rent )))

AndreyS
26-08-2010, 00:51
My whole salary is 32 ))) And I have to pay rent )))
And it's not that bad salary, right?

is4fun
26-08-2010, 01:11
My whole salary is 32 ))) And I have to pay rent )))

How much do you save?

sashadidi
27-08-2010, 04:37
Interesting Debate, When we were in Moscow last year I was sitting on a bus on the Arbat and was talking to a retired libarian, her pension was 6500 rubles
I said that must be very difficult, yes was the answer, already being "pressured"
to give up her apartment
puts things in perspective 32000p is ok

anna antonova
22-09-2010, 17:57
that is a tough question...

White Guard
24-09-2010, 14:36
I have been offered a job in Moscow. Compensation for the job is approximately 32000 rubles a month, plus a small apartment.
I have one child who will be attending school there. As part of the compensation I will receive, her education will be paid for.

So basically, I don't have to pay rent. I will be responsible for food, transportation costs ( no car), medical, clothing, utilities and internet.

Is this a realistic income for covering those essentials?
You are really going to struggle - it's not a real welcoming place (ha!) and for many expats, me included the money is the only real consolation. If you're not paid well I can't imagine what motivation you would have for coming...

Bels
24-09-2010, 23:38
That would be my point. I an struggling trying to get a future for my family with 40 thousand roubles a week , nevever mind 3200 roubles a month!!!! The thread writer must be joking, as this is most definately a pverty income in Russia. You cannot possibly survive, even as a single person on such an income here in Russia, unless of course all your costs are covered. But even then I do have freehold prperty in Russia, and I am not paying rent. LOL! It is a oke to live on such an income now. In fact since the threadwriter wrote it, infltion is now up 20% plus!! ON necessities!!! Not Luxuries!!!

alouette
25-09-2010, 00:12
That would be my point. I an struggling trying to get a future for my family with 40 thousand roubles a week , nevever mind 3200 roubles a month!!!! The thread writer must be joking, as this is most definately a pverty income in Russia. You cannot possibly survive, even as a single person on such an income here in Russia, unless of course all your costs are covered. But even then I do have freehold prperty in Russia, and I am not paying rent. LOL! It is a oke to live on such an income now. In fact since the threadwriter wrote it, infltion is now up 20% plus!! ON necessities!!! Not Luxuries!!!

32K is 32000 rub. If it were after rent payment, than, probably, for one person it's not fantastic money (lol) but it's 'survivable'. But if one needs to pay rent.... No, honestly, I don't think it'll work.

Bels
25-09-2010, 00:18
This person was planning to come from the USA, with achild. Can you you believe that? As I can't believe it. I say NO!! Isay per week, and not month!!


32K is 32000 rub. If it were after rent payment, than, probably, for one person it's not fantastic money (lol) but it's 'survivable'. But if one needs to pay rent.... No, honestly, I don't think it'll work.

alouette
25-09-2010, 00:39
This person was planning to come from the USA, with achild. Can you you believe that? As I can't believe it. I say NO!! Isay per week, and not month!!

100 per cent NOOOOO!

Bels
25-09-2010, 00:52
And so say we all!


100 per cent NOOOOO!

ezik
25-09-2010, 01:00
And so say we all!

Amen.
Thread closed. :)