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Crystal
01-12-2004, 09:16
Curious to know the opinion of expats and those Russians who have some experience of driving in foreign countries.
Why in your opinion is traffic so horrible in Moscow? Yes, there are many reasons, bad roads, drivers ignoring traffic regulations, insufficiently considered road junctions, great number of cars etc. etc. However, some say the main cause of the traffic jams is the huge number of cars. On the other hand, there are more cars per family in some other countries and still the situation is not that bad. So what do you think? Would you put the number of cars in the first place among other causes, or it is just a contributing factor and the traffic here (considering the today's number of cars) could be easily handled provided the road infrastructure and the traffic proper were better organized and drivers more polite to each other and more disciplined?

Pingu
01-12-2004, 11:55
Parking - lack of proper parking areas/carparks, inconsiderate double/triple parked cars blocking side-streets and trolleybus lanes, parking on lines/junctions and other no parking areas ...

Traffic lights - illogical sequences in some areas, occasional police-controlled lights (5 mins on green for one direction, then 30 secs on green for the other) ...

New one-way system - again, illogical in some areas, causing congestion when a one-way in the other direction would make more sense ...

Of course, the number of cars and the way most people drive is a contributing factor, as you stated, but I do think that parking is the number one problem here. I've lived in countries where they drive like crazy and where there's poor infrastructure, but traffic in those countries isn't a problem like it is here.

[ Maybe Moscow would benefit from bringing some of those notorious London traffic wardens over - they'd have a field day and the roads might even get cleared...! :D ]

Ghost
01-12-2004, 12:04
I've thought long and hard about this while in traffic. A large part of the problem is people not following basic traffic rules. They cut each other off, swerve around the whole pack of cars, then get stuck in the middle of oncoming traffic, holding up the other side of the road until he can move. Meanwhile, this side of the road is held up until the other side can move.

People run red lights, turn illegally (because the street pathing design is so blatantly ridiculous - look at the traffic light at Belorusky Vagzal where it simply BEGS to create a bottleneck).

In New York, they manage the traffic with a little rule called "Don't block the box". What that means is that when the traffic light turns red, if you're caught inside the square around the intersection, you get a fine. And they LOVE to give you fines for it. The fine for blocking the box is $300. But you know what? No one blocks the box, and when the traffic light changes, you don't have to wait for other cars to clear out of the way (which is always the case here).

Simple driving manners. Sure, you've got poor mannered drivers everywhere in the world. But I think the school that teaches them is located here in Moscow.

yankee@moscow
01-12-2004, 16:35
In addition to what was already said, Moscow is 850 years old and was never designed for the amount of vehicles trying to move around the city. It was originally designed for walking, horses, carts and sleighs. The Soviets adapted the city to the moderate amount of Ladas and Volgas that they allowed to exist. Then when the market economy hit and everyone and their brother and sister and 2nd cousin bought a car and started driving it, the government just couldn't and probably can't put a road system in place to handle that many cars at the same time. This is made worse by the police, who routinely interrupt normally flowing traffic for government officials to drive freely and other seemingly inane reasons.

Plus you have expats rubbernecking all of the time. That doesn't help either.:D

trebor
01-12-2004, 17:04
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
..........Moscow is 850 years old and was never designed for the amount of vehicles trying to move around the city.......D

I'm quite suprised by the sheer size (width) of some of the roads in Moscow considering when they were built.
Lenninsky Prospect especialy Gargarin to Oktyabrskaya and Kutuzovski Prospect. Pretty visionary for the time perhaps?

DJ Biscuit
01-12-2004, 17:12
I didn't quite get the age comment, London is twice that age and any city over 200 years old was not built with auto transport in mind! :D

As far as I understand from December 3rd it should get a bit easier as any trucks a ton or over are not allowed in the city centre without a propusk.

moscowmail
01-12-2004, 17:16
There are simple things the government could do to cut the amount of traffic on the raods.

Enforce the system of vehicle checks, about a third of the vehicles on the road shouldn't be

Get the Militia to control traffic instead of blocking it bagging for fines.

Great point about the traffic lights

Teach drivers correct ethics on the road.

:)

vince
01-12-2004, 17:39
They really should do something about parkings :(

It really doesn't help at all.

They should remove the cars that are not parked well, but off cource that includes building real parkings in the center :)

kak
01-12-2004, 17:50
They should stop selling driving licences as well !!!

pengwn9
01-12-2004, 17:50
First thing that should GO: Driving on the sidewalk. Parking on the sidewalk. Cars backing up on the sidewalk whilst the driver yaks on the phone. How many times have I had to walk out in the street with cars whizzing by and blowing slush all over me because ther was no place for pedestrians on the sidewalk?? It's one of my pet peeves.

Moscow drivers will park and drive anywhere they can fit their crappy rusty filthy little cars. They're just plain rude and thoughtless.

Sidney Bliss
01-12-2004, 18:04
Originally posted by kak
They should stop selling driving licences as well !!!

That's me off the road then :D

Sidney Bliss
01-12-2004, 18:06
Originally posted by pengwn9
They're just plain rude and thoughtless.

Hey, look on the bright side peng - at least they give you something else to bitch about other than lecherous expat males and gold diggin' Russian females!

Ghost
01-12-2004, 18:08
I'm lecherous!

Biscuit, what does lecherous mean?

:)

kak
01-12-2004, 18:11
lecherous= adj.given to excessive indulgence in sexual activity

lalique
01-12-2004, 18:14
I think that the problems are not in the roads or unpolite drivers. Problem is in the law, and in militciya corruption. As in all countries any driver knows that if he'll get many tickets
next year he'll pay more for the car insurance (no chance to pay for a ticket to a police officer as here in russia). Like in NY, nobody wants to pay 6000$ for a year(car insurance). Traffic and parking would be much better(in my way) if to try to enter such system and to pay enough money(salary) to militcya.

Ghost
01-12-2004, 18:28
Originally posted by kak
lecherous= adj.given to excessive indulgence in sexual activity

Thanks, Kak! Now look up "sarcasm"!

Halyavshik
01-12-2004, 18:30
I think the police have little to do with it other than to what extent they control the traffic lights (which I think is insane, by the way).

Ghost has a point about people 'blocking the box'. This definitely causes bottlenecks, but I'm not sure if it's a result of the frustration from poorly defined traffic flows or Soviet mentality of always going around things to get ahead (or both).

I think the biggest factor lies in poorly designed traffic flows and intersections, like, as Ghost cited, the intersection at Belorusskaya. Other examples are un-synchronized stoplights. There are several places throughout the center with stoplights no more than a thirty or forty meter gap between them, yet completely independent of each other. Insane. I think a five-year old took care of city-planning.

All things considered, the police, corrupt as they may be (and to some, justifiably so), usually pull you over only when you've committed an infraction. While it may be difficult to avoid at times, my experience has been that as long as you don't pull a screaming U-ey in the street or run a red, they give you little hassle.

DJ Biscuit
01-12-2004, 18:33
They were, what, last on todays list of people to be nice to/about Halyavshik or was that an impromptu gush?

kak
01-12-2004, 18:35
Originally posted by Ghost
Thanks, Kak! Now look up "sarcasm"!

http://www.sarcasm-music.com/
:D

btw Ghost, for the first word i looked up more for myself than for you, you knew it, it was just a joke to post it....
:rolleyes: ;)

Halyavshik
01-12-2004, 18:35
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
They were, what, last on todays list of people to be nice to/about Halyavshik or was that an impromptu gush?


Hmmm, let's take a look:

29. Boss
30. Traffic Police
31. Biscuit

DJ, did I ever tell you how much I appreciate your sarcasm ? C'mere and gimme a big hug !

DJ Biscuit
01-12-2004, 18:49
Oh yeah right! After I'm after traffic cop on the list, sure.

rosieredwood
01-12-2004, 19:14
I don't even want to get into that one!

I thought it was called the "no grid-lock" rule, which extends into the area of not even ENTERING an intersection if you cannot completely clear it -- EVEN IF the light is green. You just don't do it. And in the busiest sections of morning/evening rush-hour traffic in the Big Apple, the traffic cops/wardens assigned to intersections actually bang on the hoods (bonnets for ye olde Anglophiles) of cars. Oh, and it's pretty much the same in Boston, a city founded BEFORE Moscow.

maddog
01-12-2004, 19:23
I have driven in L.A., Dallas, Chicago, Singapore, and Tokyo. But I will NEVER attempt this place. I am bold but not nuts.

yankee@moscow
01-12-2004, 19:27
Originally posted by rosieredwood
Oh, and it's pretty much the same in Boston, a city founded BEFORE Moscow.

Apparently, the native Americans set up a teepee city where Boston now sits?

About the comment of Moscow's age. I'm not talking about the age of the roads. I'm talking about the city layout. London has the same problem, and if it wan't for that fire, it would be worse.

Another thing that screws up the traffic flow is the river. It was the same in Pittsburgh. You just can't build enough bridges for people to drive across the rivers. Then you have to do maintenance and reroute traffic. It never ends.

By the way Ghost. you can't tell me that you haven't drove into at least a couple of boxes since you've been driving in Moscow! Maybe zipped right into at least one?

Ghost
01-12-2004, 21:53
Negative, if the light is going to turn red, I do not block the oncoming traffic. Period.

As for Boston being older than Moscow - that's probably the most hilarious comment I've read today, after DPG's 17th century English Ghost in a Ukrainian Hotel post.

Sadie
01-12-2004, 21:55
I dont think traffic lights or drivers manners or whatever have anything to do with traffic jams. Take the third ring, take MKAD not a single traffic light and what? Packed like canned fish.

The way of driving? What does cutting off, etc. have to do with jams? No-thing. Simple fact, Moscow roads limit, the maximum amount of cars they can handle is 2 mln. Whilst there are almost 4 mln cars in town. You can bow and scrape before other cars, it wont ban 2 extra million cars from the road.

Remove sh**ty cars aint too many of them (well if only we consider Land Cruisers and Beemers the only cars that have a right to exist :p ;) then yes of course )

As for parking on pavements I am the one who does it and will do. Again because of a simple fact they will take away my car otherwise as there are almost NO legal parking places in the center (if you drove you would know that).

DPG
01-12-2004, 22:29
Originally posted by Sadie
there are almost NO legal parking places in the center

Just an idea, but do you think that might be because they don't want people to park in the centre?? Maybe they're trying to drop a subtle hint??

Time for Luzhkov to start building a few multi-story and underground carparks a la most other major cities in the world...where will the next fire be do you think??!

pengwn9
01-12-2004, 22:30
Then I'll keep walking in the lane of traffic, since there is no room left for pedestrians on the sidewalks.

Warning to all BMW and Mercedes drivers: I carry a large concealed umbrella. It will be my extreme pleasure to put a totally awsome dent in your hood. (Once saw a pissed off babushka successfully carry out this very same manoeuver.) Dos vedanya!

360KiloStripedKitty
01-12-2004, 22:37
Originally posted by Sadie


Simple fact, Moscow roads limit, the maximum amount of cars they can handle is 2 mln. Whilst there are almost 4 mln cars in town. You can bow and scrape before other cars, it wont ban 2 extra million cars from the road.



Makes sense. Keep in mind that the city's thoroughfares were basically planned and built during Communist times, when availability of automobiles was very limited compared to the present. I remember horrible car jams on Pr Mira as far back as late 1992 when I lived there; seems as if anyone who could bought a car as soon as they became more widely available.

Solution - I have no idea - seems impossible to widen most streets, but I am not a civil engineer (or even an uncivil engineer - perhaps a destructural engineer at best) or urban planner. Looks like we are destined to suffer with Bangkok style traffic jams forever.

That is not to say that Muscovites are proper and polite when it comes to driving habits, but nothing other than reconstruction (if possible) will correct for the present design and width of the roads/number of lanes/turn patterns etc.

As for me, I am planning on purchasing an armoured stretch Hummer with blue lights and official plates, through a certain Mr Kahiashvili, who is the local rep of the worldwide Bent Motors automotive sales enterprise :)

DPG
01-12-2004, 22:39
Originally posted by 360KiloStripedKitty
As for me, I am planning on purchasing an armoured stretch Hummer with blue lights and official plates

I'll laugh when I look down and see you stuck in a jam from the window of the Apache Helicopter I'm getting for Christmas!!!:D

360KiloStripedKitty
01-12-2004, 22:40
Originally posted by DPG
I'll laugh when I look down and see you stuck in a jam from the window of the Apache Helicopter my mum is getting me for Christmas!!!:D

Dear ***:

Your Hummer very ready it is now. I have included anti tank weapons and also anti aircraft wepenry which you request as well as on board computer wireless connection internet www.expat.ru set as home page. Thank to you for prompt transfer - your vehikel please to pick up at St Petersburg docks - you are knowing the password.

Kahiashvili Otari.

jchidg1
01-12-2004, 23:19
Well, as a peripheral interjection (just getting ready for the great move East...) if you go into a box junction in London and can't get out, you could receive a 100 pound fine, if you don't shift your car by 8.30 in the morning and you're on a single yellow line, you'll get a 50 pound parking ticket, if your car is towed (ie if you park on a corner and you are considered obstructing the view of other drivers) you have to pay 125 pounds and 125 pounds a day if your car is kept overnight in the pound .The Traffic Nazis, sorry I mean, "Parking Attendants" wait by your car at 8.29 am in the morning waiting to pounce and if you cycle during morning rush hour - watch out for the "I'll overtake you and then suddenly turn left" classic...always guaranteed to result in a fractured elbow/hip and a very long wait in Charing Cross A and E.

Stupid question possibly, does anybody cycle in Moscow?

And yes, my pound sign doesn't work on my laptop.

jchidg1
01-12-2004, 23:23
And you could always have Ken Livingstone (Mayor of london) it's now going to cost 8 pounds to drive into London.

stefania2003
02-12-2004, 01:16
Ghost etc are right; Moscow drivers are PIGS and you cross a road at your peril there. They ignore all the lights and drive over the pavements and seem to aim at pedestrians:( Rome drivers are surprisingly considerate and actually stop when you start to cross a zebra crossing. The roads here are much smaller and windier and more cramped but still the traffic is not the horror it is in Moscow which is due simply to a lack of culture.

Sadie
02-12-2004, 07:48
DPG, it might be a hint, but tell me what should I do when I have in average 2-3 appointments in the center during the day + 3-4 different offices and state bodies to visit in the center and in addition I live in the center. Maybe you could give me a hint how do I move between all these points and where should I excuse me park? :)

I agree about drivers manners in general. But dont you confuse two things that have no connection whatsoever: jams on one hand and manners and safety on the other, pardon me confuse . Though the moment I read the first post I knew exactly the discussion would switch from the original subject to whining bout drivers - that's the unique quality of this forum. :)

DPG
02-12-2004, 08:47
Sadie - I also live in the centre and I also usually work in 3 (but sometimes 4) different places every day...I use the metro...I have actually experiemented with taxis to and fro, and going by car is actually a lot slower than the metro...and these drivers were driving far more agressively than you probably do (the best example was one guy who reversed about 1.5 miles down Leningradskiy Pr-t...my knuckles were white because I was holding on so tight in utter fear!) ;-)!!

Admittedly, in the metro you don't have a comfortable seat, a stereo and no one bumping in to you!!:-)

Sadie
02-12-2004, 09:06
C'mon, I am a woman in the end, carry all these heaps of documents and sometimes laptop with me. Yesterday one of my "appointments" was 60 kms away from Moscow :( Be merciful :)

Plus Moscow Frost is out and I am doing stunts in 4" heels (no thong tho) - try yourself :p

360KiloStripedKitty
02-12-2004, 09:09
Originally posted by stefania2003
Rome drivers are surprisingly considerate and actually stop when you start to cross a zebra crossing.

Italian drivers considerate? A lot must have changed since 1992 when I was last there, but Italy was always known as the home of the worst drivers in Western Europe.

DPG
02-12-2004, 09:35
Originally posted by Sadie
doing stunts in 4" heels (no thong tho) - try yourself :p

Only on Thursdays, Sadie, only on Thursdays!!!:p

pirata
02-12-2004, 13:58
Well, I've been driving in Sao Paulo, Rio, in L.A. and in Houston, Texas (which is considered one of the worst traffics in US, due to the fact that the city has almost NO public transportation)... however, in my opinion, few things contribute enormously for traffic jams in here:

- The mentioned above "box" problem, has a huge amount of guilt on traffic jams in Moscow. And actually most of the blame on that problem is the cops whose i've seen many times, allow the traffic to move on the other side, before all the "box" has been cleared...
- Another great contributor is the drivers impatience to wait... This is a problem that all russians have, (coming from Soviet times, in which they had to wait in lines for hours to get goods, etc etc...) and it's now applied to traffic. They simply CANNOT wait in a line for a traffic light..they have to "shortcut" all the time...what happens is, few "smart-asses" cut about 100 meters of a line of cars on the wrong lane, (or the variations: sidewalk, triple lane, etc etc...) and then eventually, when the light (that by the way has RIDICULOUS timings here) comes off, only those who short-cutted have time to go, while the good mortals have stayed in the same place practically. ( I personally refuse to let any of those cut in front of me).

- The Insanely wrong timing of the traffic lights in here is a major contributor for traffic jams here. It seems completely ridiculous to me, that some traffic lights stay on green for over 3 minutes, while the other for similar sized adjacent street would go green for less than 10 seconds.

- The lack of politeness on the traffic here is amazing too, someone is trying to get into the main road from an access ramp, and absolutely noone gives an inch to the other driver to fit in, without having to stop both, the oncoming traffic, and the access ramp.

- The U turns: haha, whoever designed that system of U-turns. To make a left on some street, you have to drive by it, then make a U-turn, and then fight your way on the traffic and changing lanes to the right, until you finally manage to get yourself on the far right lane, so you can get into the street you're looking for. EX: Sadovaya kolso, on Metro Sukharevskaya, trying to get into Prospekt Mira.

Resuming: Traffic in Moscow is undoubtfully the worst i've ever seen in my life. It seems illogical to me, that someone leaves work at 6pm and spends about 2 hours to get home. that's about 4 hours a day in traffic jams. Insane.

littlejohn
02-12-2004, 14:28
One of the things that I have introduced in my office recently is flexible hours in that people still have to work an 8 hour day, but they can choose when to start and finish. Maybe if other companies did this it, the jams would not be so bad in the morning and evening.

Another innovation which we constructed a few years ago was physical lane seperation on an access road to a commercial building. This means each lane can only fit one car in so people cannot park blocking the road. This solved the problem immediately. This could easily be used in Moscow so that drivers have to take a decision as to which lane they need to be in earlier, rather than cutting accross other road users at the last second.

In respect of Sadies point about banning 2 million cars - this is easy: Alternate the cars say allowed into the centre between those with an odd number for their registration and those with an even number.

J.D.
02-12-2004, 14:31
or maybe ban trucks from 8 to 8.
I'm not sure if there are that many trucks in Moscow though.
It is the problem in some cities though.

littlejohn
02-12-2004, 14:45
Why just trucks? What about Ladas, Volgas, S class Mercs, Landcruisers, Gazelle minibuses, in fact all other vehicles except metallic green Freelanders.

plastique
02-12-2004, 14:56
Originally posted by yankee@moscow
Apparently, the native Americans set up a teepee city where Boston now sits?

About the comment of Moscow's age. I'm not talking about the age of the roads. I'm talking about the city layout. London has the same problem, and if it wan't for that fire, it would be worse.

Another thing that screws up the traffic flow is the river. It was the same in Pittsburgh. You just can't build enough bridges for people to drive across the rivers. Then you have to do maintenance and reroute traffic. It never ends.

By the way Ghost. you can't tell me that you haven't drove into at least a couple of boxes since you've been driving in Moscow! Maybe zipped right into at least one?


wow...i just read that in a really dirty way..yankee you double entendre dropper you....

ps..Pittsburgh rocks, but the traffic sucks bc of construction and one way streets....but to echo about here, most of the stuff starts when they need to get the 8 lanes they have formed down into two lanes of management so they enter the grid (block the box...snicker snicker...) and everyone gets stuck....plus with the rings if there is an accident anywhere it backs up the rest as it is one big circle..and the parking anywhere you want doesn't help, but people will do it even with garages because garage space you pay for...street (sidewalk) parking is free. no left turns make people go way out of their way to get to their points.

but you can limit the number of cars on the road. In the US we have inspections and emissions testing...your car don't p**** you don't get to drive it....course a few rubley dubleys to the cop and well....there in lies most of the prob as well....

boscoe
02-12-2004, 14:57
Originally posted by littlejohn
Why just trucks? What about Ladas, Volgas, S class Mercs, Landcruisers, Gazelle minibuses, in fact all other vehicles except metallic green Freelanders.

Why should it only be hairdressers allowed to drive in Moscow?

DJ Biscuit
02-12-2004, 15:01
PMSL!!

littlejohn
02-12-2004, 15:11
LOL

peyote
02-12-2004, 15:22
close to where i live there's a banner with 2 pictures: a dead person killed by a car, and a driver behind bars. below it says something like "you are accountable/respond for life." it's an insurance ad.

you will be accountable for those you kill!

oh really?!

that says it all.

littlejohn
02-12-2004, 15:36
Boscoe, I was going to PM you on this, but now that my profession is in the open it seems appropriate to put my advice about your questions on your scalp on the open forums.

1. Patent baldness is hereiditary, so the dandruff should no longer be an issue within the next few years

2. Ditto head lice


3. Wigs are available in a variety of styles and colours

4. Whilst at the moment we are not doing manicures at the salon, we can arrange this if you give us 24 hours notice

boscoe
02-12-2004, 15:44
Originally posted by littlejohn
Boscoe, I was going to PM you on this, but now that my profession is in the open it seems appropriate to put my advice about your questions on your scalp on the open forums.

1. Patent baldness is hereiditary, so the dandruff should no longer be an issue within the next few years

2. Ditto head lice


3. Wigs are available in a variety of styles and colours

4. Whilst at the moment we are not doing manicures at the salon, we can arrange this if you give us 24 hours notice

Touch Or is that touchy ;)

Filimon
02-12-2004, 15:49
I think lack of adequate parking, blatant breaches of the most basic rules and poor design of SOME of the roads (Boston founded before Moscow ? - you gotta be joking) are the main contributing factors.

MKAD was completely rebuilt by Luzhkov fairly recently, however, some construction genius managed to put the sliproads leading onto MKAD road BEFORE the exits, so the traffic that's speeding up to join the flow crosses with the traffic slowing down to leave it. In Stalin's time such idiots would be shot! On sight!

DJ Biscuit
02-12-2004, 15:56
Maybe they mean Boston, Lincs?

Crystal
02-12-2004, 16:59
Sadie, i think the number of cars could be limited if only it were not so easy to get the technical inspection coupon (no matter for a bribe, or just a sticker some buy indtead). Anyway, many cars simply wouldn't pass. Seems that was the point of Plastique.

Littlejohn, great idea of flexible working hours! If only more bosses were so considerate to their employees! Guess all the night owls in your company admire you :)

boscoe
02-12-2004, 17:03
Originally posted by Sadie

The way of driving? What does cutting off, etc. have to do with jams? No-thing.


Not true - erratic and harsh braking has a lot to do with traffic jams, not to mention accidents that are a major cause

Sadie
02-12-2004, 17:10
Originally posted by Crystal
the number of cars could be limited if only it were not so easy to get the technical inspection coupon.
lol, i have never had it

flexible hours - agree 100% - that's why I have to leave my office at 8-9 PM quite often

I think helicopters could help, but then there will be sky jams here quite soon i guess.. :eh: somebody must close Moscow from these endless guests :p

Crystal
02-12-2004, 17:33
I know it doesn't work now, but many crappy old cars could be banned from roads this way.
Helicopters ... great idea when you are the owner :p and not a pedestrian walking under the sky full of helicopters and among the rude pig-drivers aiming at you all the time! :eek:

pirata
02-12-2004, 18:05
Helicopters?!?! HAHA....you all must be joking that choppers will be able to drive around Moscow with such weather... The only thing we'd get is choppers down all over Moscow. (That not counting the reliability on those old Soviet Choppers)

stefania2003
03-12-2004, 00:20
I still think it's the nature of the people and that they are angry all the time. Kitty (your latest nick?) I travel a lot around Rome and have never had problems crossing roads or encountering the kind of aggression towards pedestrians I had from RUssians.

veejay
03-12-2004, 00:41
I don't drive here, and have absolutely no desire to do so...But, I just wanted to add a little story to this thread to illustrate the lack of basic knowledge regarding road safety from this evening.

A friend of mine was driving me home and first crossed at least 4 lanes of traffic in a very short distance on Sadovaya whilst not being able to see out of the windows b/c they were all iced/snowed up. Then, he was going to make a U-turn from the furthest right left-turn lane! Freaked me out...first b/c there was a huge truck right there, not to mention a line of cars in the left left-turn lane...When I tried to say that it was a wee-bit dangerous, he thought I was mad!!!

I firmly believe that if all drivers were required (and enforced) to take some sort of road safety test, the driving conditions here would be a bit better. I've never seen so many people play chicken with busses and trucks...as well as on-coming traffic. City driving is always a bit on the wild side, but this place is insane!!!

plastique
03-12-2004, 11:51
Ditto to Steph's Rome experiences. I did drive down there--the nutters on mopeds are the ones likely to bite the dust, but the drivers actually let peds cross the street in zebras and everything!

As far as responsibility, my teacher's father in law was killed here two years ago on the sidewalk by a drunk off duty cop who magically disappeared and will never be tried or held responsible for the killing.

stefania2003
03-12-2004, 16:08
Yes, Plastique; life is cheap in Russia and for a few grand's bribe they can probably get away with killing and maiming pedestrians. I was always very nervous of cars there and am glad to have got away from it. Rome car drivers are amazingly courteous and I still find it hard to get used to people stopping for me every time I want to cross the road. Very nice.
I agree with you about the scooter drivers though; (which is why I said 'car drivers') they are complete nutters who drive through lights, ignore pedestrians etc. Send 'em to Moscow I say!