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stefania2003
10-09-2003, 17:26
Several of my Russian friends here have said they can't afford to go to restaurants, fitness clubs and night clubs and wish there were cheap cafes and pubs/bars as we have in the West. There is surely money to be paid catering for the masses here - I mean, indoor places and not those tents that people drink beer in. In the West, ordinary working people can go to the pub for a drink and sit down (or stand up!) in a civilised fashion and the families can have an outing without being bankrupted. If Luzhkov is truly a man of the people, as he purports to be, it's surprising he doesn't actually THINK of the people! Or is there some other reason the masses aren't catered for here? I think for example, it would be nice, when doing one of my huge tramps around Moscow on a freezing day, there was somewhere to pop into for a hot cuppa and a sit down:)

DaveUK1965
10-09-2003, 17:38
I hit all the restraunts in Volgograd the first time I was there - and I was astonished to see that they were effectively empty. The prices were too high for ordinary Russians...

"Look, this is 75 R, but the ingredients cost 5R" says I, "and the wages and overheads costs the same. If the owner dropped the prices to 30R, many more people would eat here, wouldn`t they ? "

Fiancee concurs... she`d never thought of it before. Neither had the owners.

She was also stopped in the street over a year later by a waiter who recognised her - "You have an English fiance" he said - "I remember you because that was the only three course meal we served that year."

It`s not *difficult* to drop prices and get more customers in and make money that way.. increase the popularity of a restraunt, and then a few more rubles on the top (to what the public can afford) ensures a larger profit in future..... but it`s all "live for today", no forward planning and.... unimaginative management. Anyone need a SME advisor in Volgograd ? ;-))))))))))))))))))

It`s just blindingly OBVIOUS - to cater to the masses, reduce prices to a level they can afford - what IS the point in having high prices and an empty restraunt ? There are lots of them in the provinces - fix the prices to what people can afford, you make more profit six months down the line............ simple, simple solution.

Dave ;-))))))))))

bibliofil
10-09-2003, 17:48
God, please stay in the IT, and under no circumstances try to open a restaraunt. :D

Why do you assume that everybody's stupid. Lack of "cheap" places can be easily explained. Poorer people can spend smaller proportion of their income on eating/drinking out than richer people so by lowing yr prices you would not neccessary attract more income.

But I do not understand the moaning. There are plenty of cheap places in Moscow. Start with Elki Palki, them Mu Mu, then Stary Melnik on Prechistenka, Mama Zoia, Pelmeshka on Kuznetsky Most street. And it's only a few places I can thing about right now.

By the way - what do you consider cheap?

DaveUK1965
10-09-2003, 18:04
Hehee !

Don`t you think poor people in the provinces would conversely like to go out and eat somewhere once in a while, but the barrier to them doing so is price ??

Dave

bibliofil
10-09-2003, 18:10
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Hehee !

Don`t you think poor people in the provinces would conversely like to go out and eat somewhere once in a while, but the barrier to them doing so is price ??

Dave

The barrier fo them is their income not price.

I have only come to Russia in may after not been in the country for four and smth years. And the thing I have noticed that there are many more places to eat out. And not just that - there are plenty of cheap places.

Cheap means that dinner for three guys, with I'm not sure how many beers each, at approx 1000-1200 rur.

If people can not spend so much, there is no point in catering for them, you would never make any money.

DaveUK1965
10-09-2003, 18:26
I agree there, Bibliofil. It`s probably why there are no McDonalds outside of Moscow and St Pete.

Something to be grateful for. ;-)))

bibliofil
10-09-2003, 18:33
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
I agree there, Bibliofil. It`s probably why there are no McDonalds outside of Moscow and St Pete.

Something to be grateful for. ;-)))

You are wrong here. There is a MCD outlet in every oblastnoi tcentr in Russia these days. In Nigny Novgorod there are two or three :D

uninformed
10-09-2003, 20:52
The line outside the Yakatori near my home isn't expats - its Russians. Rustics was created for inexpensive food. Moo moo, etc. There aren't that many expatriates in Moscow but there are thousands of restaurants. Who do you think is eating in them? Why is Coffee Mania, et al, so busy? It's Russians!

It appears that many Russians can afford to go out to dinner. Prices often seem high to me but I assume it's the 20% "mafia tax." There's no other explanation. It sure isn't labor costs.

logoff
11-09-2003, 21:45
"In the West, ordinary working people can go to the pub for a drink and sit down "
- 100% truth. However, not every ordinary (I mean, ordinary) working people can afford tickets to the play, theater, show or opera twice at month.
You can get drunk every day in the pub, watch movie or get fat from fast food.
However if you want have something more cultural it is too expensive to get too often.
It is just different governement system. Capitalism vs. . Socialism ( or whatever in Russia is now)

DaveUK1965
12-09-2003, 00:02
Capitalism ? ;-))) An economic theory from Marx which determined what should be done with spare capital resulting from the economic process ? (He said "workers control the means of production.... ain`t "socialism", neither. ;-)) )

Or "Consumerism" which is what the system which exists in the West could better be classed as..... ?

Great quote from Marx - "Whatever I am, I am not a Marxist" ;-))))

DaveUK1965
12-09-2003, 00:04
More to the point - stop me if I`m yawning - where IS a good cheap place to eat, drink and be merry in Moskva - anyone fancy putting a list together for those "end of the financial month excursions" ??? ;-)))))

polly
12-09-2003, 06:03
what about project OGI and the piroshki branches?
cheap. affordable. (which is why it's really hard to find a place to sit and might have something to do with the nonexistant service). chock full o russkies (mid class).

bibliofil
12-09-2003, 09:23
Originally posted by polly
what about project OGI and the piroshki branches?
cheap. affordable. (which is why it's really hard to find a place to sit and might have something to do with the nonexistant service). chock full o russkies (mid class).

Smoky, crappy food and even worse coffee. :D

But on the plus side - you can read books there. It's a cheap alternative for "intellectual" types of russkies.

polly
12-09-2003, 09:40
well up my nose with a rubber hose

if you smoke, don't drink coffee and stick to ordering the alcoholic beverages at the bar, you've got a decent hookup.

bibliofil
12-09-2003, 10:07
Originally posted by polly
well up my nose with a rubber hose

if you smoke, don't drink coffee and stick to ordering the alcoholic beverages at the bar, you've got a decent hookup.


But it's not "expat" easy pray money taking type of women. Ogi attracts "intellectual" students / young professionals.


But what about Vostochnyi Express place (chinese) - dead cheap, nice setting? It's opposite Bookkafe. Anybody been there?

polly
12-09-2003, 10:23
vostochny express always struck me as a place where you'd get dangerously inauthentic food, but i've never been inside so i couldn't say.

what's bookkafe all about? i've been past it several times, but again, never went in.

bibliofil
12-09-2003, 10:27
Originally posted by polly
vostochny express always struck me as a place where you'd get dangerously inauthentic food, but i've never been inside so i couldn't say.

what's bookkafe all about? i've been past it several times, but again, never went in.

Pretentious little place with coffee for 150 rubles. Nice, but a little too clean for my taste.

VE - food is actually very good. They have the same cook in the restaurant and in the cafe. And it costs smth like 200 rur for a three course meal.

jheisel
12-09-2003, 11:39
Perhaps it should be noted somewhere that advertising something as "dorogo" in Moscow is actually considered a selling point.

In any case, most any neighborhood you walk through has little bars/cafes that are quite reasonably priced and often cheap. The food tends to be edible, but nothing special.

twaj
12-09-2003, 15:15
I think I always went to places in the states that were like Projekt OGI back when I was in Uni... I especially liked a place called Tryst in the Adams Morgan area of DC and one called the Beehive in Pittsburgh. My favorite cheap restaurants are, uh... well, Moo-moo and Papa John's.

I do get the point though - Russians are just cheap people - look at the Russian idea of landscaping. There's an ass-end stolovaya near the metro here at Sviblova - you'd think that the 80k-100k apartment buildings buildings might justify a Denny's or something like that, let alone a Kentucky Fried Chicken and a Pizza hut. No dice - they don't even have a decent inexpensive restaurant near Ramstore at Babushkinskaya. You have to go into the center to eat, which is why I'm moving to 1905 once I put together 500 extra bones for the realtor now that tochka.ru gives free installation. Then you get, as you said, the tent city crap. People drink instant coffee there. Ewww...