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ghost 6-3
16-11-2004, 13:32
August 24, 1855

Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes." Soon it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics." When it comes to this, I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty--to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy.

vince
16-11-2004, 13:33
This man was a visionary :agree:

Shatneresque
16-11-2004, 13:35
Lincoln was a brilliant writer and public speaker. For an analysis of his work, highly suggest you read the book Abraham Lincoln and the Gettysburg Address by Gary Wills.

Fa-Q!
16-11-2004, 13:46
Shat, I remember reading somewhere that Lincoln was a great writer, but terrible public speaker. That's not the case?

Shatneresque
16-11-2004, 14:06
Know that he had a very high-pitched voice and a regional accent. But he always spoke from texts that he spent a great deal of time preparing.

He started speaking in public while still a young man (he was a lawyer), but had honed his own personal style by the time of his debates with Douglas.

Fa-Q!
16-11-2004, 14:11
Well, if I remember correctly, I read that Lincoln was a poor speaker in an article that presented that fact in the context of the importance that Americans put in how a politician looks and speaks, as opposed to his character and ability to make decisions. The article was about the unfair treatment by the American public of the VP candidate that ran with Ross Perot, can't remember his name, but he was that old Navy Admiral who wasn't too eloquent, but had an impeccable career record.

Fa-Q!
16-11-2004, 14:13
Anyway, they said that the lanky and not so suave Lincoln, would not have been elected in today's age of mass-media.

DJ Biscuit
16-11-2004, 14:16
Yes, Bush is very suave, and attractive physically. :p

Shatneresque
16-11-2004, 14:24
In today's world, Lincoln wouldn't even get past the primaries.

vince
16-11-2004, 14:39
He probably would with some plastic surgery and if he plays in a movie ;) :p

Shatneresque
16-11-2004, 14:40
The man was almost seven feet tall!

gadfly
16-11-2004, 17:09
Originally posted by Outlaw
Well, if I remember correctly, I read that Lincoln was a poor speaker in an article that presented that fact in the context of the importance that Americans put in how a politician looks and speaks, as opposed to his character and ability to make decisions. The article was about the unfair treatment by the American public of the VP candidate that ran with Ross Perot, can't remember his name, but he was that old Navy Admiral who wasn't too eloquent, but had an impeccable career record.

Lincoln was a brilliant speaker - he was a po' boy from Illinois who earned his reputation as a moral crusader. Google Lincoln Douglas debates - Lincoln and Stephen Douglas pioneered a model for political debates that is the foundation for all modern US political debates. The a-hole who wrote that article forgot that KENNEDY and NIXON were the first two candidates to debate in front of a television camera, 95 years after Lincoln was shot in the back of the head. Most of Lincoln's contemporaries read the Gettysburg Address in a newspaper. Children in the late 19th and early 20th centuries had to memorize the address. Even my great grandfather had it memorized and his family fought for the rebels.

Strom Thurmond was Perot's running mate. He was a POA, I mean a POW, along with John McCain.

tbill
16-11-2004, 19:26
I think Perot's running mates name was Stockwell.

vaska
16-11-2004, 19:34
It was Stockdale

Shatneresque
16-11-2004, 19:42
Originally posted by gadfly
The a-hole who wrote that article forgot that KENNEDY and NIXON were the first two candidates to debate in front of a television camera, 95 years after Lincoln was shot in the back of the head. Most of Lincoln's contemporaries read the Gettysburg Address in a newspaper.

This is true. However, remember that going to hear a public speaker was one of the main forms of entertainment in those days, and THOUSANDS of people flocked to hear the Lincoln--Douglas debates (at a time when the population of the US was around 35,000,000); politicians would also travel the nation by train for days at a time to deliver speeches to different constituencies.

To follow speeches and debates in those days, you needed both a certain level of literacy that probably does not exist today, and more than a ten-second attention span (each Lincoln--Douglas debate lasted a minimum of two hours, during which most of the audience had to stand).

A huge crowd (I forget exactly how many, but the number was in the thousands) assembled at Gettysburg for the dedication of the cemetery and to hear Lincoln speak.

gadfly
16-11-2004, 19:54
Hey you're right - Strom Thurmond is that old boy from NC.

John Bear
17-11-2004, 19:12
Funny thing about watching latest US elections as a Brit is that neither candidate would have got anywhere in the UK, but because of totally different perceived weaknesses.

Bush wouldn't make it because:
- Too Christian
- On the far right bank of UK politics on tax and spending.

Kerry wouldn't because:
- Too rich.
- Shoots geese and Vietnamese.

Teutonic Deity
17-11-2004, 21:56
Originally posted by gadfly
Strom Thurmond

this guy is like 130 years old too...

tbill
18-11-2004, 01:40
Originally posted by Teutonic Deity
this guy is like 130 years old too...

He retired from the senate when he was 95+ years old. He died very shortly after. Then the world found out he had a black daughter. Funny thing is, he was a big time segragation advocate in his younger days.

plastique
18-11-2004, 09:45
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Yes, Bush is very suave, and attractive physically. :p

Are you on crack??? The man looks like goofy...all he needs are longer ears!!! mabye his tiny beedy lilttle eyes are what put me off.

85StonePolarBear
18-11-2004, 09:47
Originally posted by plastique
Are you on crack??? The man looks like goofy...all he needs are longer ears!!! mabye his tiny beedy lilttle eyes are what put me off.

Ummm...I think DJB was being rather sarcastic :p. Now the question is who would look better in a toga - Bush, Kerry or DJB?