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View Full Version : Should Russian be banned on Expat.Ru?



neilmcg
08-09-2003, 19:40
The Forum Management has proposed that posting wholly or partially in Russian is now banned on The Moscow Expat Site.

What are your feelings on this matter?

N.

Braders
08-09-2003, 20:14
A separate section/folder could be created for this purpose.

I don't think it's practical to allow users to post freely messages in Russian, if only because the site would lose it's appeal to many users who live abroad and use this site as a vaulable resource for information from Expats who live in Russia.

Nothing against Russian people of course, but 99 x out of 100 a foreigner wants the view of an Expat who lives here, i think.

The site generally is about the lifestyle and hardships expats face when living abroad. ie; in this case Moscow.

After all it is EXPAT.RU ;)

neilmcg
08-09-2003, 21:17
>> After all it is EXPAT.RU <<

Indeed it is :) There are 5 letters in "expat", and 2 in "ru". So could 2/5ths of the site contain the occasional Russian word? :)

What I am fascinated to know is how this mad rule will be policed? For example, if I say that is an interesting play on at the Person Theatre in Bread Lane... how useful is that going to be? One could hope in a cab and say "Bread Lane, please, and don't spare the horses", and hope to be there for the curtain? Or do you have to be able to guess the correct translation back to Russian to be able to use the info?

By the way, in the Services Offered section, the word "remont" appears in the section description. I demand that this be removed, and replaced by "repairs". What, pedantic? Well, what do you call it when threads are terminated by forum management because they contain Russian words, or cyrillic letters?

If this is serious, then the page should be disabled for cyrillic characters, so that they can't be added? What, is that daft then? So we can use them in theory... but not in practice?

Welcome to 1984, Mr Smith. The Language Police are waiting to interview you.....

Braders
08-09-2003, 21:37
2/7ths ;)

That is what i am saying, the occasional phrase/expression in Russian is indeed harmless as we all know :)

However if threads are to be in Russian and Russian alone, i think this will cause people to look elsewhere/for another alternative.

The language of the internet is English, the most spoken language on the internet is English, commonsense tells me to keep the desirability of this site it can only be in one language.

A separate folder for Russian by all means.

I have my own website and if i was the Webmaster of this one, incorperate Russian into it? yes by all means, Keep the main folders English language?, absolutely.

It's pure logic you won't see many expat Russians in London, NY etc etc entering this site, what you will see are Americans, British, Europeans etc coming here for info before they relocate or travel here on holiday.

The debate continues ;)

neilmcg
08-09-2003, 23:04
These are all entirely fair points. However, when two English-speakers use a Russian phrase to illustrate a point... or more especially, to illustrate how the Russian Alphabet has changed over the centuries...

.... and a note from Forum Management appears, to the effect that the discussion is to cease immediately, because non-English words have been used...

... then I think the rule is a potty heap of crap, and such petty-minded pig-headed boorishness will drive people away (or perhaps I mean drive even more people away?).

I'd love to see what would happen if you suggested on the Russian Expat forum in London that there was a new rule, and English words were no longer allowed?

But they wouldn't be so moronic as to try to introduce such a rule, so it's not a fair comparison.

Still, I see Len's voted....

N.

MDW
08-09-2003, 23:19
If only you were in the States, I would have sued all your sorry asses for voting "yes" for descrimination and racism!

wwwoland
08-09-2003, 23:46
Can't believe it, but I'm going to have to agree with Neil again. Generally, yes, the site should be in English. If there was a great deal more Russian, I'm guessing that many of the Russian regulars using the site would depart. Many are here after all to practice English (or whatever that language is that is used in Bardak). However, a phrase here or there in Russian I think only adds to the flavor of the site. If someone can't read it, well, they've just missed out on something. Maybe it would inspire them to learn some Russian while living in... Russia! Елки палки!... wouldn't want to do that! :p

Anouk
08-09-2003, 23:57
I have read the A-Z thread in the information folder, and I think the English request was fair.

Not everyone on this site speaks fluent Russian (though I am trying). I get lost when there are vast replies in Russian. Even when there are shorter phrases that I could understand - my computer seems to show some cyrillic posts and not others. (I know I could install more, but my computer can read other Russian websites and type in cyrillic just fine)

I don't think the forum admin would ban Russian anyway - they are just making sure that the site is user friendly for all it's members.

DaveUK1965
09-09-2003, 04:22
I`ll side with Neil on this one. Yes, for those non- Russian speakers, it`s going to result in unfollowable threads if a load of Cyrillic script appears in the middle of a topic....

.... however. Point is that to survive and thrive in Russia, you NEED to speak Russian to some even limited degree, unless you`re a very lucky member of the few who live in gated communities. Perhaps a multi-language section seperate from the rest is the answer.

Some things only make sense in Russian, too. ;-))))))))))) But. A total ban ? Naaaaaah, rubbish, I`m with Neil on that one.

Dave

J.D.
09-09-2003, 08:05
Isn't this site something of a gated community already? And who is this site for the expats or the foreigners who don't live here?

It would be easy enough to ban Russian, just stop supporting cyrilic. But better still to get it down to that 2/7ths just start charging for posting in Russian. Keep raising, or lowering, the rate untilit gets to 2/7ths.

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:25
My goodness,

Neil, you know I thought you were one of the sensible ones, obviously my mistake.

Nobody said that Russian words are banned, maybe you over exagaration has done you proud....AGAIN...

Grow up, nobaody has any problem with people using Russian words or phrases, however, the Russian used was apparently slang and the message completely in Russian.

There is a mulit lingual folder for any language.

This is an English language site Neil, grow up eh!!!

Now, I was polite when I remended the users of being an English language site, YOU are the one that again has got things all out of proportion.

I have not voted because NOBODY is banning Russian words, I really am finding your whole attitude, not just in this subject but on a lot of stuff, just a little wierd.

Now, just because I disagree with your point of view doiesn't mean that you can't express it, and you are not being banned, just thougth I would put that in before your messed up mind confusses itself again.

So, Neil, do what you want eh!

Len

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:31
Quote from Neil:
... and a note from Forum Management appears, to the effect that the discussion is to cease immediately, because non-English words have been used...

I think before anyone really thinks to hard, the proof is in the pudding, read the thread on Moscwo A-Z, you can judge for yourself, NOBODY asked the thread to cease immediatly, NOBODY banned the use of Russian words.

Anyway, I think I have said my point, and those guys who have sided with Neil, please just read the thread, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but educated decisions are alwasy best ;)

Len

neilmcg
09-09-2003, 10:35
>> NOBODY banned the use of Russian words. <<

So one day there was a little harmless thread. People were discussing something in a friendly and pleasant way.

When along came Len, and said "no, English please, no more Russian".

But your memory is quite selective on these points, isn't it?

N.

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:40
Hahahahaha

Sorry I am falling over here, oh my.....

Sorry, I will try and be serious.... Nah I can't take you serious Neil,


READ THE THREAD... REAd my reply

Actually, here was my repl I believe:

"English please

Guys this is an English language site, please keep it that way

Len"

I think it is kinda polite, doesn't say RUSSIAN IS BANNED BLAHBLAH

OIh I cant be bothered, Neil, if I thought IO was wrong I would admit it, i have in the past, however, you on the other hand......

hack_the_planet
09-09-2003, 10:42
Wohooo......

Handbags at 40 paces ladies???? :D

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:44
Heheh

Oh by the way Neil....

Can you tel us all where and when ANYONE said Russian was banned..

Maeking a statement saying the mangement have banned Russian...

Do you know how foolish you look now????

:)

heplion
09-09-2003, 10:45
How about a folder dedicated to questions about the Russian language and how to say, read, express oneself appropriatly in the country most of us are living in?

Everyday we have to deal with the Russian language, riding the metro, walkign to work, shopping for groceries, etc. It is a reality of life here, it is part of what being an expat in Russia is about, isn't this website supposed to be about the reality of the expat working and living in Russia? The reality is you have to cope with Cyrillic and you have to cope with the language. If people post in Cyrillic or English or both isn't it just a reflection of the environment we have CHOSEN to live in??

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:47
Great idea Heplion

Consider it done.

heplion
09-09-2003, 10:49
Actually, you both look kind of foolish, arguing about wether Russian is or is not appropriate in a site for people living in Russia. Seems kind of like a silly argument period.

heplion
09-09-2003, 10:50
Thanks Len. :)

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:50
Absolutely agree, and i apologize for biting and reacting... hey I am obly human :)

OK, thanks for the sugestion, it has been done

Len

hack_the_planet
09-09-2003, 10:51
Damn,

And I've just returned with the handbags as well.....


Len. yours was a nice pink one.....

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 10:53
Mine is a stingy Gucci number...

:)

twaj
09-09-2003, 13:14
People will use English on the site - it's just convention.

But when people say things like:


If only you were in the States, I would have sued all your sorry asses for voting "yes" for descrimination and racism!

It makes me really glad I left the US with its litigious social harmony. I think the weight of popular opinion speaks more strongly than artificial mandates, but this applies equally to the private realm (i.e. someone governing conduct on a site he/she owns) and to the public (a government restricting conduct among people.) In short, let Len and the boyz do what they want - even if it's un-necessary and potentially offensive. ponil?

geneven
09-09-2003, 13:24
This is not a site without a history. It existed for quite a long time without some sort of policy statement on whether Russian is used or not -- why does it suddenly need one? I don't remember long threads in Russian on the old site.

I LIKE Russian to be in use. If this site were no longer to be frequented by Russian speakers as well as English speakers, I would really be interested in going elsewhere.

The basic rule for this site should be "that government governs best which governs least." Moderators should intervene when some behavior exists that endangers the site. I don't see there as being a problem at this time.

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 13:49
I agree entirely.

If you look at the expat main page, there is, and always been a sentence that say

"The virtual community for English speaking expats and Russians"

Now, nobody is banning Russian here, quite the opposite, what we are saying is that threads/messages are supposed to be in English on the main boards.

We remind people, I think quite politely of this.

We had a suggestion from heplion to make a folder for Russian language, although a multi-language folder exists, we have done so.

I would personally prefer to just enjoy the site and play around, however, without moderation... well we saw it before.

Thanks for your comments

Len

J.D.
09-09-2003, 14:08
Moscowmail you are obviously the guilty one here. If you read his post carefully it says

" the management has proposed that Russian words have been banned . . . "

Now what you need to do is figure out what " . . . has proposed that . . . has been banned" means and then you will understand everything. And after you understand everything would you please explain it to me.

You have a serious case of seriously serious. You seriously need to have some serious beer poured down your throat. And, all modesty aside, I am just the man for the job. London Pub, 8:30?

DaveUK1965
09-09-2003, 14:17
Heheee ! ;-))))))

Moving on..... quickly.......... before handbags ensue....... well, is this Russian section coming up, then ? ;-))))))

I agree totally with the points Neil and other posters were saying - you HAVE to have some degree of Russian skills and knowledge of the alphabet to cope with being in Russia. It is just not possible to function otherwise, unless you`re in highly unusual and specialised circumstances.

Balance this with the need to keep posts legible for non- Russian speakers - and - it makes sense to have a seperate forum for Russian speakers.

God, it smacks of Colonialism to say "This is an expat site, no foreigners" when you`re living and working amongst them. ;-)))))))))))))))

Mind you, I spent years "extending the British Empire" when I lived in Holland and Germany..... know the feeling, folks. ;-))))

Dave ;-))))))

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 14:20
Well seriously to be serious I think the serious question is if you are serious about it or not....

Meet you there around 21:30 tonight... maybe, i have a meeting first but should get there around 21:30 - 2200..

Neil, if ya reading I will even buy you a beer, no hard feelings old chap, love ya lots ;)

Keep you phnoe on JD, I will text you to confirm

Seriously
;)

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 14:24
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
Heheee ! ;-))))))

Moving on..... quickly.......... before handbags ensue....... well, is this Russian section coming up, then ? ;-))))))

I agree totally with the points Neil and other posters were saying - you HAVE to have some degree of Russian skills and knowledge of the alphabet to cope with being in Russia. It is just not possible to function otherwise, unless you`re in highly unusual and specialised circumstances.

Balance this with the need to keep posts legible for non- Russian speakers - and - it makes sense to have a seperate forum for Russian speakers.

God, it smacks of Colonialism to say "This is an expat site, no foreigners" when you`re living and working amongst them. ;-)))))))))))))))


Mind you, I spent years "extending the British Empire" when I lived in Holland and Germany..... know the feeling, folks. ;-))))

Dave ;-))))))

Dave, I agree to the point, that is the whole problem here, I DIDN'T BAN RUSSIAN WORDS, HE EXAGERATED...ah thats better :)

The Russian language section is in place, under the communtiy section....

Cheers

L

DaveUK1965
09-09-2003, 14:28
Heheee ! The ARGUMENTS you have to have to get something done here.... well ! Just typical bulletin board stuff. ;-)))) Turned out fine in the end, eh ? ;-))


Dave ;-)))))


Originally posted by moscowmail
Dave, I agree to the point, that is the whole problem here, I DIDN'T BAN RUSSIAN WORDS, HE EXAGERATED...ah thats better :)

The Russian language section is in place, under the communtiy section....

Cheers

L

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 14:43
:)

geneven
09-09-2003, 14:45
I don't agree with your total agreement.

Braders
09-09-2003, 14:47
We shall have no Russian here!

Anyone spouting Russian will be flogged 30 Times with a pint of Harp ;)

Vot Tak!

I will take the recognition thankyouverymuch for the idea of the new folder, my price 10 pints!

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 15:07
Ermmm... perhaps a gobledegook folder as well huh??!!! :confused:

twaj
09-09-2003, 16:51
Originally posted by DaveUK1965
God, it smacks of Colonialism to say "This is an expat site, no foreigners" when you`re living and working amongst them. ;-)))))))))))))))

That's what I meant by the "No Dogs or Chinamen" title. There was a park near one of the Embassies in Shanghai that had such a sign around the time of the Boxer Rebellion - the Chinese still remember these things. According to the most credible of sources (the Exile?) this is also the way it was at the AmCham 4th of July party during the early years.

heplion
09-09-2003, 18:41
Hmm. Braders if yo utake a look further up in the board, I think I get the 10 pints...Regardless of what he did or didn't say about banning or not banning Russian the administration DID give the credit for the new folder idea to me....Now, is that 10 pints total or 10 pints from each person contributing to this thread????

moscowmail
09-09-2003, 20:25
Here here, I agree with Heplion, Braders buy heplion 10 pints.....:)

Braders
10-09-2003, 02:42
Beer Beer! the 2nd post done by yours truly quite clearly stated:

'A separate section/folder could be created for this purpose.'

Mine: Date: 08.09 Time: 20.14

Heplion: Date: 09.09 Time: 10.45

I make that 14 hours and 31 minutes :D

Which equates to 14.5 Pints we'll call it a straight 14 Pints :p

moscowmail
10-09-2003, 11:13
Awww...

Dog goon it :)

Maybe I should buy you both a few beers to settle it....

Or a drinking competition... hmmm

heplion
10-09-2003, 11:53
Ah, but Braders, you are assuming that facts dictate reality, and if I am not mistaken, this whole thread came about because reality and perception got all confused. If MoscowMail percieves that I had teh idea first then I get the beer, regardless of what the facst may or may not dictate...:confused:

Of course, I see no reason we can't both be rewarded....

moscowmail
10-09-2003, 12:10
YOU CAN BOTH HAVE A BEER OR 10 :)

trebor
10-09-2003, 12:30
I don't see that much Russian posted on this site so why make a rule to ban it?

moscowmail
10-09-2003, 12:45
Trebor...

Hmmm, I will say it again for the hundreth time :)

Nobody is or wanted to bann it, it was something that got out of hand old chap :)

L

J.D.
10-09-2003, 17:05
I was all ready to believe you MM but now me thinks you protest too much. SO , there really IS a secret plan to ban Russian from this site. I can only infer the time and method. Probably a Sunday morning in December?

moscowmail
10-09-2003, 18:45
Hmmm, I think all JD's should be banned ;)

J.D.
10-09-2003, 18:51
not difficult since JD don't speak Russian.

moscowmail
10-09-2003, 18:57
Oh...

Hmm, what else can I ban hmmm,

I could ban me... that woudl be kinda cool ;)

J.D.
10-09-2003, 19:02
you can ban me from antartica, nuclear waste dumps, ugly bitches, well all bitches I guess, ugly girls are ok as long as they aren't bitches, ban me from getting up too early and working too late-WORKING TOO LATE!? Shit it's 7 i'm off to the Shamrock bar

moscowmail
10-09-2003, 19:32
Lucky bloody you

I am still working... and it is 1930... :(

Flora
11-09-2003, 17:37
ERM - is it alright that I sometimes transliterate Russian and translate what it means as well?
Just gotta make sure ... y'know ... I mean don't want to get banned or anything.

Agh

logoff
11-09-2003, 20:51
Exactly!
By the way, lot of people practicing in English here. That is veeeeeeeery helpful. Let's keep it in English and have folder for some who speaks Russian.

J.D.
12-09-2003, 11:52
I say charge people for posting in Russian
charge Russians for practicing their English
and put all the money toward the next Bardak Boozers

heplion
12-09-2003, 11:55
We could just ban Russian in the whole country, then we wouldn't need to worry about it showing up here.

twaj
12-09-2003, 15:28
what's wrong if Russians practice their English here? I don't give a *** about other people's diction - I mean it's the internet - poor grammar is par for the course.

ASL - what r u wareing

Beautiful people
16-09-2003, 12:34
Feel more Russians in here!

moscowmail
20-02-2004, 10:53
Originally posted by Beautiful people
Feel more Russians in here!

What????

Not this old turkey again

ReturnOfBroadmoor
20-02-2004, 11:02
What happens is that if anyone votes on any poll, it gets bumped up as if it were a current topic. That last post was made on 16.09.2003.

0000
07-04-2004, 18:01
Did anyone ever think of maybe trying to learn the language instead of banning it? I mean, you know, seeing as we live in this country and all...

moscowmail
09-04-2004, 10:45
Originally posted by 0000
Did anyone ever think of maybe trying to learn the language instead of banning it? I mean, you know, seeing as we live in this country and all...

Before making commnets, perhaps you should read through the thread....

NOBODY was banning Russian...

J.D.
09-04-2004, 11:00
1st Expat.ru
next Russian will be banned in Moscow
and nobody can stop us
not even Moscowmail

moscowmail
09-04-2004, 11:04
Here we go, I am not even going to respond to this old turkey, I will re-iterate AGAIN-------


THE MANAGEMENT, THE MODERATORS OR ANYBODY ELSE WHO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS SITE DO NOT, AND HAVE NEVER WANTED RUSSIAN BANNED FROM THIS SITE......

IT IS AN ENGLISH LANGUAGE SITE, HOWEVER, NOBODY BANNED IT, ONLY COMMENTS WERE MADE, BEFORE RUSSIAN FOLDER WAS BROUGHT IN, TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF RUSSIAN IN THE THREADS.....

OK, that is my last comment on this, I know the wind ups are gonna come.... ohoh I can also sense Olga, or whatever name she/he will use coming here......

J.D.
09-04-2004, 11:15
Len, I think you need some beer.

and if you don't realize it I am going with Dr Limitchik to the courts and have you commited




to the nearest bar

moscowmail
09-04-2004, 12:03
:) I agreeeeeee me need beer...

Actuallt it is a very good friends memorial service today, he died here in Moscow a few weeks ago, so I am feeling a little down :) but life goes on.

L

Zephyr
23-04-2004, 06:58
You can take the American out of America but you can't take America out of the American.