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DJ Biscuit
05-11-2004, 13:31
Blood is on the hands of all believers.

I am reading the thread in Expat Cafe with a tear in my eye. No kidding. The vile things some of these so called believers are spewing about other people is tantamount to what Hitler planned. All this in the name of god, jewish, christian or whatever. I am sickened to what will become of this world if it is left in the hands of such people. How can you talk like this in the name of a god?

85StonePolarBear
05-11-2004, 13:35
Which thread? No one seems to be mentioning god much today.

DPG
05-11-2004, 13:38
I think he's referring to the fact that without religion, the conflicts about which we were writing about and the ones to which we were comparing them would not exist.

In that I have to agree.

85StonePolarBear
05-11-2004, 13:39
Religion may have done a lot of good at some point, and there are still many who do good in the name of their god or religion, but the problem is with politicised religion - which has existed since the beginning of time, when this warlord or that raped, pillaged and plundered in conquering territory for his god or gods.

DPG
05-11-2004, 13:41
Although I agree to a point, my problem with that is that those people are doing their good because of and under the auspices of religion.

Why not just do good for the sake of good?

veejay
05-11-2004, 13:43
Indeed, DPG...it's amazing to me how so many fundamentalists christians can conveniently ignore most of his teachings and then claim that the wars they wage are all in his name...

Sigh...

85StonePolarBear
05-11-2004, 13:44
Originally posted by DPG
Why not just do good for the sake of good?

Plenty of people do - others just choose to cloak it in their religion.

polly
05-11-2004, 14:00
but aren't there also individuals who have no god, no religion and who also have blood on their hands?
i'm not pro-religion but i'm not sure if i'd blame *all* of the world's evils on religion alone.

85StonePolarBear
05-11-2004, 14:03
Originally posted by polly
but aren't there also individuals who have no god, no religion and who also have blood on their hands?
i'm not pro-religion but i'm not sure if i'd blame *all* of the world's evils on religion alone.

Many of the worst of those (Shitler, Stalin, Pol Pot) created a sort of secular religion which proved even more bloodthirsty than its more traditional counterpart.

All evils should be blamed on politics, not religion. Non-politicised religion is harmless or even beneficial.

DJ Biscuit
05-11-2004, 14:04
Well, I think Soviet ideology pretty much excluded religion!

85StonePolarBear
05-11-2004, 14:05
Soviet ideology was a secular religion.

DJ Biscuit
05-11-2004, 14:07
As you seem to think there is such a thing as non politicised religion I'm gonna pretty much ignore everything you say.

;)

85StonePolarBear
05-11-2004, 14:09
I believe that there is such a thing (or a potential for such a thing), but that it is drowned out by the politicised kind, and that things have gotten worse in that respect over the past 2 generations.

Shaun
05-11-2004, 14:12
the soviet system, most particularly during high stalinism, used a lot of quasi-religious symbolism, language and ritual. anthropologically speaking, it was pretty much the same sort of thing, just the object of worship had changed. and the consequences of heresy.

sir Gay
05-11-2004, 17:39
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Blood is on the hands of all believers.

I am reading the thread in Expat Cafe with a tear in my eye. No kidding. The vile things some of these so called believers are spewing about other people is tantamount to what Hitler planned. All this in the name of god, jewish, christian or whatever. I am sickened to what will become of this world if it is left in the hands of such people. How can you talk like this in the name of a god?

it is intersting how english "blood" and russian "αλ*δό" are of the same origine (according to some linquistic research)

Missionary
05-11-2004, 19:49
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Blood is on the hands of all believers.

I am reading the thread in Expat Cafe with a tear in my eye. No kidding. The vile things some of these so called believers are spewing about other people is tantamount to what Hitler planned. All this in the name of god, jewish, christian or whatever. I am sickened to what will become of this world if it is left in the hands of such people. How can you talk like this in the name of a god?

DJ ... If I might make a comment without starting a religious war. Please don't take this as my questioning your beliefs or trying to shove mine down your throat, but simply as a statement to ponder.

Are there not just as many people that commit these vile and atrocious acts in the name of nothing? As for the ones that do in the name of their god, these are, as someone correctly identified elsewhere, fanatics. There are fanatics in every religion and in every "secular religion" mentioned earlier. As in everything in life there are extremes.

In another thread you spoke about "believers". Believers in any religion are no different than in any non-religion. Just because you believe doesn't make you right or righteous. The word Christian technically means a follower of or one who strives to follow Christ. As I read about Christ and His life, I wouldn't call anyone who murders, rapes, pillages or forces someone to choose his god in the "name of religion" as a Christian. As I read, a Christian is someone who loves God, loves others and goes about doing good, just as Christ did; not in the name of any god, but motivated simply out of love and compassion.

I will be the first to agree that most who espouse religious beliefs are far from the ideal poster child for those beliefs. If more people would actually take the time to understand what those beliefs really mean, and how they should motivate them to act, the world would most certainly be a better place. I believe that to blame all the ills of the world on "religious" extremists instead of on extremists in general is irresponsible and extreme in and of itself.

But again, this is just my opinion, so please do not take offense.

DJ Biscuit
05-11-2004, 20:37
Agreed. There are killers, dictators, rapists without creed to hide behind. That's for a different topic. The title of the folder you might note is 'Religion'.

And though we could go round in circles with statistics I feel pretty sure saying religion of any creed is responsible for more suffering than any other single doctrine. There's a huge history to gleen from. We are talking are we not of organised societies, cults, ploitical movements or what have you? Although many serial killers have claimed ''god told me to do it''

I am far from offended by the way.

Moscow Wolf
06-11-2004, 02:03
And what do Tottenham supporters believe in? It can't be God otherwise you'd have won something decent in this last decade!