PDA

View Full Version : Do you see any disadvantages in obtaining Russian citizenship ???



SV1973a
18-05-2009, 17:14
Obtaining all the documents to be able to work legally in Russia is not exactly a walk in the park, and it costs a lot of effort and money.
However, if you have a permanent residence permit of have Russian citizenship, you are finally freed from these difficulties.
In those cases you do not need to have a work permit, and your employer does not need an accreditation card.
Recently, I applied for the Temporary Residence Permit (which also was not easy). Now, in about 6 months I should come back to the FMS, and they are going to place a stamp in my passport.
I have been told that upon reception of this TRP, two options are available :
1. Live one year in Russia on the TRP, and then apply for the Permanent Residence Permit (which is valid for 5 years, and you have to live in Russia for more than 6 months per year, and that can be prolonged indefinitely).
or
2. Immediately apply for Russian citizenship (because I am married for more than 3 years to a Russian citizen that resides in Moscow).
Can anybody confirm the above -because at FMS they told me that also in the 2nd case I have to live one year on the TRP.

I know that one the requirements for getting RF citizenship is that you have to write a request to your Embassy to renounce your current citizenship (of course I do not want to renounce my current citizenship). However, my Embassy informed me that they are not obliged to grant such requests, so that you just get to keep your original citizenship.

Now my question; can you think of any disadvantages of obtaining Russian citizenship ?

Dashanew
18-05-2009, 18:04
You must have a permanent RP to apply for citizenship, it is not allowed with a temporary RP. So, after temporary permit, one year, apply for permanent, then you CAN apply for citizenship immediately AS you are married +3 years with a RF citizen.

Resigning to your current citizenship is a non sense as you could anyway get it back at any time, assuming you are a "native" in this citizenship.

About (dis)advantages of RF citizenship it is personal for each person. The permanent residence permit gives the exact same rights than a RF citizen has, except the political rights (voting, being elected).


Obtaining all the documents to be able to work legally in Russia is not exactly a walk in the park, and it costs a lot of effort and money.
However, if you have a permanent residence permit of have Russian citizenship, you are finally freed from these difficulties.
In those cases you do not need to have a work permit, and your employer does not need an accreditation card.
Recently, I applied for the Temporary Residence Permit (which also was not easy). Now, in about 6 months I should come back to the FMS, and they are going to place a stamp in my passport.
I have been told that upon reception of this TRP, two options are available :
1. Live one year in Russia on the TRP, and then apply for the Permanent Residence Permit (which is valid for 5 years, and you have to live in Russia for more than 6 months per year, and that can be prolonged indefinitely).
or
2. Immediately apply for Russian citizenship (because I am married for more than 3 years to a Russian citizen that resides in Moscow).
Can anybody confirm the above -because at FMS they told me that also in the 2nd case I have to live one year on the TRP.

I know that one the requirements for getting RF citizenship is that you have to write a request to your Embassy to renounce your current citizenship (of course I do not want to renounce my current citizenship). However, my Embassy informed me that they are not obliged to grant such requests, so that you just get to keep your original citizenship.

Now my question; can you think of any disadvantages of obtaining Russian citizenship ?

SV1973a
18-05-2009, 18:14
Thanks. However in point 2 of the list from FMS with required documents there is just mention of residence permit (without specifying temporary or permanent) :

Документы, подаваемые на российское гражданство:
1. Заявление-анкета 2 экз.
2. Нотариально заверенный перевод национального заграничного паспорта с отметкой о разрешении на временное проживание;
3. Нотариальная копия свидетельства о рождении;
4. Нотариальная копия свидетельства о браке при изменении ФИО;
5. Отказ от гражданства государства, гражданином которого вы являетесь (2 экз.)
- оригинал заявления отправляется по почте в посольство государства гражданином которого вы являетесь;
- н. з. копия прилагается в пакет документов вместе с почтовой квитанцией;
6. Квитанция об уплате госпошлины в размере 1 тыс. руб.
7. 4 фотографии 35 мм на 45 мм черно-белые на матовой бумаге.
8. Выписка из домовой книги и копия финансово-лицевого счета.

And as to disadvantages, I was more thinking of; what is the reaction of your militia to a foreigner with a Russian passport ?

Surfsup37
18-05-2009, 18:16
The biggest issue for me personally is that if I am a Russian citizenship as opposed to a resident than I am totally liable to Russian authorities.

I.e. If you have a problem in Russia, then your current government will just walk away. If, God probide, I had a problem with the Russian government than I want my native government in there fighting for me. I assume that if something happens the Russian government will just kick me out of the country. If not, well the current conviction rate in Russia is about 98.9%.

SV1973a
18-05-2009, 18:33
I know that your country of origin is unable to protect you. But then, I do not intend to engage in any criminal (or any other illegal) activities. It does not seem to be that native Russians, that are also not involved in illeglal spheres, have difficulties with their governement ?
The only thing I fear are set-ups. But how likely is this ?

Dashanew
18-05-2009, 19:44
Thanks. However in point 2 of the list from FMS with required documents there is just mention of residence permit (without specifying temporary or permanent) :
And as to disadvantages, I was more thinking of; what is the reaction of your militia to a foreigner with a Russian passport ?


It is not mentioned but you need permanent (vid na zhiteltsvo). Go to a FMS office and ask.

If you have a Russian passport you won't be considered by the militsia as a foreigner but as a Russian citizen. And you will *maybe* be even advantaged compared with a native Russian: You will have CHOSEN to become Russian, the native Russian did not chose anything.

SV1973a
19-05-2009, 00:56
I checked the FMS-site and indeed, as spouse of a Russian citizen (for over 3 years) I am exempt from time requirements, but I still need to have the Vid na Zhitelstvo (so the Permanent Residence Permit instead of the Temporary Residence Permit).
Damned, that adds another year and a half, and it means that I will have to repeat these medical tests again and stand in line at FMS for a couple of days. Also the disadvantage of having to live with the TRP for a full year, with the associate travel restrictions.
Too bad !!!
Still I think it is worth to go for citizenship, as there are the following advantages :
-no need for work permit
-no need for accrediation card
-no need for visas (also for other CIS countries)
-no need for yearly medical tests
-no fear of losing documents and be deportated
-no loss of original citizenship
Disadvantage :
-no protection from Embassy in case you are in trouble in Russia

Surfsup37
19-05-2009, 11:17
SV,

What is the disadvantage/advantages of cititizenship vs permenent residence. I don't see any advantages of citizenship unless you really want to vote or run for office?

I am also assuming that you are not a male under the age of 27.

I have no intention of comitting crimes beyond the usual ones: paying bribes to police officials (traffice violations), government officials (trying to get the documents that they are legally required to give me), medical officials (trying to get medical care for my wife), school officials (trying to get my son in a "public" school).

Of course all of these actions are criminal acts, and I could go to jail for them if someone high enough decided that they wanted my apartment, business, or just didn't like me.

The chances of it are small, but the downside is huge.

My $.02 cents.

Good luck either way.

SV1973a
19-05-2009, 12:31
Dear Surfsup,
The PRP is fine, but it has just the disadvantage that `permanent` is not exactly permanent. It is only valid for 5 years -so not for life-, and there is the obligation to reside in Russia for more than 6 months per year.
For the next few years I will meet these requirements, but when I return to Europe, I will lose the PRP.
That means that after we return to Europe, I again will have to apply for a visa to visit my parents-in-law, and do registration. I just suppose in a couple of years my parents-in-law will have become to old, to go and stand in line at FMS for an invitation.
RF citizenship is the only residence permit that is really permanent.
The only disadvantage I see is when you have troubles with Russian authorities... but most Russians don`t seem to have such problems.
Thanks for sharing your advice.

thva
19-05-2009, 16:48
Don't make them stand in line for the invitation - for a few hundred rubles extra, Liga will do the invitation. And it's much more reliable too - I had relatives miss my wedding because their official invitations got lost in the bureaucracy!

SV1973a
19-05-2009, 17:23
OK, but even if a company like Liga makes the invitation, I will still have to spend time going to the Russian consulate to get the visa (standing in line for a couple of hours), and have to do the registration in Russia.
With RF passport, I would never ever have to worry about visas and registrations.

Kartoshka
20-05-2009, 19:32
I think there might be some medical benefits with Russian citizenship, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know?

SV1973a
21-05-2009, 09:15
Finally I have found the big disadvantege : gaining Russian citizenship will cause my life expectancy to drop from 84 to 59 !!!

Kangaroo495
21-05-2009, 10:32
I have no idea how this works or if this is a stupid question, but here goes:

If you travel from Europe to Russia with your Russian passport, then come back to Europe, are you allowed to return on a different (Euro) passport? I mean, doesn't the airline have to know your passport number etc. to issue tickets? Obviously if you buy a return ticket to Moscow you provide your Russian passport details, as you will show your Russian passport at the border when you arrive. But when you return to Europe you will be using your Euro passport for the same return ticket - different passport altogether. Is this allowed? If not, then you would potentially need a visa to go back to Europe...

:confused:

SV1973a
21-05-2009, 10:40
Literally millions of Russians (like my wife and children) have a Russian and a EU passport. Never encountered any problems, as long as you carry around both passports when you travel. The airlines don`t care which passport you give them to issue the tickets. The most important is that you are allowed to enter your country of destination. If you are not allowed to enter, than they have to bring you back at their own expenses.
At passport control in EU you show the EU passport, at passport control in Russia you show the Russian passport.

Bels
21-05-2009, 21:20
I think there might be some medical benefits with Russian citizenship, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know?

There are even with residency, but my Russian wife wouldn't trust any of them for their professionalism. So where does that put you? Back to private I am afraid. And even then you have to be careful. As in any country private does not necesserally mean better.

GaNozri
21-05-2009, 21:33
I don't know what your native citizenship is, but if compared to most (western) citizenships, the one advantage that stands out: No tax on foreign income.

Judge
21-05-2009, 23:04
At passport control in EU you show the EU passport, at passport control in Russia you show the Russian passport.

What if the Russian passport control asks to see a visa in your Russian passport before leaving for an EU country?
Do you just get out your EU passport and say,I don't need a visa.

thva
21-05-2009, 23:32
When you go through passport control, they don't know or care where you are bound - their job is just to make sure you have the correct documents to leave Russia. The ones who need to see your ability to enter your destination country are the airlines, and it was already noted here that they couldn't care less if you have an even dozen passports, just so long as you have the ability to enter the country you are flying to today.

And btw, if you do the 2-passport route (as many Russians do, but I've not heard of any westerners actually doing it!), the only thing you must be sure of is that your name is the same exactly (points off for spelling!) in both passports. That way you won't have any problems with the airlines, like someone here worried about, that you are using multiple passports for one ticket.

fco1922
26-05-2009, 01:25
The only major disadvantage you'd have is that your country of origin can never intercede to help you. This isn't only an issue when criminal matters are concerned. My wife was taken seriously ill and the British Embassy was very helpful in geting her transferred to the Kremlin Hospital, and then helped medevac her to the UK. They couldn't have done so if she held Russian citizenship.

The only other potential difficulty is should you ever want to work for the government in your home country or in any position requiring a security clearance. In the case of the US, Canada, UK, France and Germany, you will not be eligible for a security clearance.

RRM
26-05-2009, 11:52
I asked my HR about getting a residency so that they wouldnt have to do my visa every year. And the answer was that I would then be off the expat status since the catagory becomes as though you are a resident. No flights back home and no housing (which are paid out as cash) and the other benefits of being an expat.

MissAnnElk
26-05-2009, 12:38
What if the Russian passport control asks to see a visa in your Russian passport before leaving for an EU country?
Do you just get out your EU passport and say,I don't need a visa.

Do they look at your destination? Or does just the airline do that?

I guess they do want to see our boarding passes, don't they. I never noticed if they actually looked at them, however.

Judge
26-05-2009, 13:14
Do they look at your destination? Or does just the airline do that?

I guess they do want to see our boarding passes, don't they. I never noticed if they actually looked at them, however.
I'm not sure,i've never tried it.

Bels
26-05-2009, 13:50
I asked my HR about getting a residency so that they wouldnt have to do my visa every year. And the answer was that I would then be off the expat status since the catagory becomes as though you are a resident. No flights back home and no housing (which are paid out as cash) and the other benefits of being an expat.

Why on earth would your employer want to remove your status as an expat employee? But in your case residency application may be an even greater hassle than it's worth.

It's One year as a temporary resident and then you apply for permanent residency of which is not really permanent by the way, it lasts only three years and then you go through the long process all over again.

So I am convinced that you are better off in the status you are now, if you could only realise what kind of hassle it would be for you in the application process of temporary residency and permanent residency together.

RRM
27-05-2009, 06:55
Why on earth would your employer want to remove your status as an expat employee? .

They just have rules policies which they blindly follow. If it were a small company, they would be more flexible.

fco1922
29-05-2009, 16:46
I think there might be some medical benefits with Russian citizenship, but I'm not sure. Does anyone know?

Medical benefits? Have you seen most hospitals? I honestly cannot imagine anyone from the EU taking up Russian citizenship so that they can avail themselves of Russian health care!

kebab
29-05-2009, 17:21
I just can't understand why you would want Russian citizenship, particularly if you are from the EU.

Dashanew
29-05-2009, 18:38
I just can't understand why you would want Russian citizenship, particularly if you are from the EU.


Maybe he just loves Russia more than his native country? Citizenship is not only a matter of "advantages" and "disadvantages"! Strange that you all think only about this...

kebab
01-06-2009, 07:31
But if he's asking about benefits then obviously he's unsure. Anyway these days there isn't the necessity to change nationality.

SV1973a
01-06-2009, 12:10
Dear Kebab,
I know what the benefits of having RF citizenship are. I have listed those I could think of right away somewhere earlier on.
It is just, the possible disadvantages (of which I might be unaware) might offset all benefits. Hence my question.
You state that there is no necessity to change nationality. I do not intend to change my nationality, but to get the Russian citizenship, whilst keeping my original citizenship.
RF Citizenship is the only way you can permanently (by permanent I understand `for life`, and not `for 5 years, or shorter if your foreign ID document expires sooner`) reside in Russia and travel unrestrictedly in and out of the country.
About love for Russia; I do not love Russia more than native country, just in the way that I do not love my father more than my more. I just love both of them.
As a sign that I want to live in this country, and contribute to its development, I would like to take upon the RF citizenship.

kebab
02-06-2009, 21:55
But does Russia allow dual citizenship for foreigners, I thought you couldn't in Russia not if you are a foreigner

SV1973a
02-06-2009, 22:31
No, if you are a foreign national that wants to get RF Citizenship, you should write an official letter to your embassy that you want to give up your citizenship.
But then, if your embassy refuses to take away your citizenship, the Russians can not force them to do so !
Usually, your embassy understands that you do not really want to loose your citizenship, and they will not take it away.
And even if they do, there is always possibility to get it back in your home country.

IGIT
03-06-2009, 12:52
Talk of Red Tape stupidity?
Not quite sensible to ask someone to reject his/her own citizenship simply because he wants to take a dual citizenship-and in this case RF?
Of course you have a choice not to even apply but then why do russians apply for citizenships of other countries?

Dashanew
04-06-2009, 07:47
I don't know what your native citizenship is, but if compared to most (western) citizenships, the one advantage that stands out: No tax on foreign income.

Never saw this in Russia. Can you point to an official source about this? And how is an income recognized as "foreign"?

SPBCafe
04-08-2009, 21:51
Hello---What does No. 8 mean? Something about showing where I live? and the second part "finansovo-litsevovo scheta"? Proof of a bank account? Or copies of some bills??

Thanks!



Thanks. However in point 2 of the list from FMS with required documents there is just mention of residence permit (without specifying temporary or permanent) :

Документы, подаваемые на российское гражданство:
1. Заявление-анкета 2 экз.
2. Нотариально заверенный перевод национального заграничного паспорта с отметкой о разрешении на временное проживание;
3. Нотариальная копия свидетельства о рождении;
4. Нотариальная копия свидетельства о браке при изменении ФИО;
5. Отказ от гражданства государства, гражданином которого вы являетесь (2 экз.)
- оригинал заявления отправляется по почте в посольство государства гражданином которого вы являетесь;
- н. з. копия прилагается в пакет документов вместе с почтовой квитанцией;
6. Квитанция об уплате госпошлины в размере 1 тыс. руб.
7. 4 фотографии 35 мм на 45 мм черно-белые на матовой бумаге.
8. Выписка из домовой книги и копия финансово-лицевого счета.

And as to disadvantages, I was more thinking of; what is the reaction of your militia to a foreigner with a Russian passport ?

tgma
05-08-2009, 12:21
I hope someone with more expertise can answer you, but my guess is that it's a document from your ZheK showing that you are registered there, and that all bills at the place of registration are paid and up to date.

SPBCafe
05-08-2009, 16:23
I hope someone with more expertise can answer you, but my guess is that it's a document from your ZheK showing that you are registered there, and that all bills at the place of registration are paid and up to date.
I am showing my ignorance here.... what's a ZheK? (in Russian) Thanks!

alexstone
07-08-2009, 16:48
Maybe he just loves Russia more than his native country? Citizenship is not only a matter of "advantages" and "disadvantages"! Strange that you all think only about this...

As a Briton living in Russia, and going through the TRP process, with the eventual intent of living here permanently as a citizen, i can understand your irony. I'm a composer of classical music, and Russia is one of the few places left on the planet that are actively seeking out new music in this genre. I've made many friends here a result, and the russian people have treated me with respect and friendship because i'm a composer, and a creator of more traditional forms of music. I, in turn treat them with the same respect, and as is so often the case, definition by nationality fades, and we enjoy each other's company as human beings, with shared interests, and a sense of humour.

So citizenship for me is more than detail, admin, or procedure. It's a chance to live among people who understand, and possibly appreciate what i'm doing, and ironically, don't think of it in terms of profit, or "how many bums can we get in seats if we perform your new music.", but "Is this new music to my taste?"

As for the militia, and any intent of corruption, or being setup, no country is immune from this, including those who proclaim their adherence to the "rule of law". There's been plenty of innocents sent to jail in Britain, and elsewhere, so Russia's not unique in this regard.The only time i ever got asked for a bribe in Russia in the last 5 years, or was momentarily disadvantaged because i didn't offer one by default, was an xray assistant in a hospital in Moscow.
So we went somewhere else instead.

I share Dashanew's surprise at the seemingly narrow expectations spoken of, and have no problems with applying for russian citizenship, based on my reasons above. This is a good country in many ways, and lacks the brutal cynicism so often prevalent in other, "western" countries.

At least in my experience, anyway.

2 roubles worth,

Alex.

Penguin_The_Great
08-08-2009, 11:50
Hello---What does No. 8 mean? Something about showing where I live? and the second part "finansovo-litsevovo scheta"? Proof of a bank account? Or copies of some bills??

Thanks!

I think the "spravka" is the same as Form #9. It's an official paper stating who resides in the apartment where you live. "Vipiska" is a paper that states that all your utility bills have been paid.
"ZHEK" is a house committee. It's a place that administers all kinds of official paperwork in relation to the residing in a particular district. They keep the records of people registered in the district, etc.