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Larry Paradine
25-04-2009, 20:57
Can anyone recommend good English for lawyers and law students materials (preferably available in Russia, though I'll apply to the publishers or use an internet book mailing service if necessary)?
N.B. By "anyone" I mean any teacher who has at least a knowledge of principles of law and legal terminology, if not a background in law, and who has personally used the recommended materials (i.e. no publishers' blurbs, please).

Bels
25-04-2009, 22:44
Can anyone recommend good English for lawyers and law students materials (preferably available in Russia, though I'll apply to the publishers or use an internet book mailing service if necessary)?
N.B. By "anyone" I mean any teacher who has at least a knowledge of principles of law and legal terminology, if not a background in law, and who has personally used the recommended materials (i.e. no publishers' blurbs, please).

There are many techers who can adapt to techeing English in a specific subject, and they do do manage to specialise in it somehow, depending on their background and education. I have no doubt that any teacher can specialise in any subject to teach if they feel the demand is big enough . and will adapt and be able to find what's available.

If a teacher is weak in areas such as law , medical, or any other vocabubilary they are capable of adapting and planning their lessons in that are. Eventually they be able to teach in areas such as law. Another difficult area of high demand is madical, as for example there are Russian doctors who feel a need to learn, other s are pilots etc, etc.

But i can assure you whatever they need they must be able to reach an advanced level of English. And only then will that allow them to be able to study later on their specialist subject.

You as a qualified teacher should be able to find topics of their interest that you can meet with their level of English. Keep them interested in their particular interest of English with your plans. Search the internet and do what you can.

But first of all test their level of English, are they elementary or Advanced? That is your first target, before getting involved with subject such as law and medicine terminology. There are such good course books and dictonories avallable. But first ensure that your students are ready. Yes they should be of advanced level., But you could plan lessons that will be of their interest in law of a simplastic manner to begin with, if their English is not of a high level.

Bels
25-04-2009, 23:12
To put it in a nutshell. Assess your student's level of English.

Teach them normally in a business course, their will will vocabulaury limited vocabulary that will fit. You can develop yourself as a teacher by searching the website of what is most suitable to your students needs.

Encoiurage them to purchase Dictonaries both in Russian/English/EnglishRussian plus an English to English Dictionary. Take the dictionary they are most likely to use in English. British English or Amarican or one that respects both would be best. Use topics in the internet or wherever you can find ,that would be of interest to them.

But I do insist, bring them up to adavanced level in general English before they can be capable of anything.

I'll give you an example, a Russian pilot asked me to teach him English while I was walking along a village road. I could not understand him clearly, but I knew he was a pilot and that he needed to learn English. I asked him to contact my of whom he could discuss his problems in Russians, and could decide whether we could help.

He stated to my wife that as a pilot he needed to pass an English test, When would the test take place? In about 4 weeks. My wife normally consults me, but in this case she refused. We can't perform miracles. A pilots's work is exteremely important, and he must have fluency in English. It's from 80- 120 hours of teaching for each level of English from beginner to Proficiency. It must be accepted. We natives cannot perform miracles.

I But I must admit young children from beginner level are the easiest and most satisfying to to teach. Why, because you can actually see your results, and it's most satisfying to a teacher.

IraM
26-04-2009, 22:03
I think Dyed Petya from redtape.ru could help - he's a pro in legal English.
Check Lessons there - Lessons in legal English - opinions wanted - Red Tape Forums (http://www.redtape.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=30903)
Just pm him and ask.

Larry Paradine
28-04-2009, 22:42
Thanks Ira M. BELS, I know you're a veteran and leading light on this forum, but you should try to answer questions instead of pontificating. I asked for information about materials, not advice about assessing and grading students.

J.D.
29-04-2009, 06:28
Thanks Ira M. BELS, I know you're a veteran and leading light on this forum, but you should try to answer questions instead of pontificating. I asked for information about materials, not advice about assessing and grading students.
Sounds like an invitation for more pontification.
or at least a change of subject.

Bels
29-04-2009, 23:53
Thanks Ira M. BELS, I know you're a veteran and leading light on this forum, but you should try to answer questions instead of pontificating. I asked for information about materials, not advice about assessing and grading students.

If you can't accept mixing your teaching skills with a bit of use in the internet for example to specialise, then may I suggest using a local supplier that specialises in materials for teachers and your students.

Look through this site, and I have given you their local Moscow site where you might find what you are looking. I get all my teachers resource books from here plus all the books my students use. Search for their recommended supplier in Moscow.

Pearson Longman English Language Teaching (ELT) (http://www.pearsonlongman.com/)

longman.ru In russian only

kofola
05-05-2009, 14:38
I teach at a law firm a couple of times a week. The courses are general fluency, but I dip into the following materials when the clients wish to cover specific areas in law:

Market Leader, Business Law
Penguin, Test Your Professional English - Law
Cambridge, Professional English in Use - Law
McKay & Charlton, Legal English - How to Understand and Master the Language of Law
Cambridge, International Legal English

They may be of some help, depending on what kind of legal English it is you are teaching. However, I don't know how widely available they are in Russia, as I am not teaching there at the moment.

Let me know if you require further details on authors etc.

Bels
06-05-2009, 00:21
I teach at a law firm a couple of times a week. The courses are general fluency, but I dip into the following materials when the clients wish to cover specific areas in law:

Market Leader, Business Law
Penguin, Test Your Professional English - Law
Cambridge, Professional English in Use - Law
McKay & Charlton, Legal English - How to Understand and Master the Language of Law
Cambridge, International Legal English

They may be of some help, depending on what kind of legal English it is you are teaching. However, I don't know how widely available they are in Russia, as I am not teaching there at the moment.

Let me know if you require further details on authors etc.

Who is your supplier for these books How dour students get the course books in Russia as the do need course books. And teacher's books perhaps.

kofola
06-05-2009, 22:06
I'm afraid I can't help with Russian suppliers as I'm not teaching in Russia at the moment. I use a good academic bookshop that orders in the materials I require if they are not locally available. The disadvantage is that it can take some time for the materials to arrive, but they are generally very good at sourcing them. I would imagine that academic bookshops in the larger Russian cities would be able to offer the same service.

I work in the corporate sector teaching one-to-one and very small group courses that are tailored to the often very specific needs of the clients. These are not coursebook based as the general business coursebooks do not adequately meet their needs. Supplying coursebooks in quantity is therefore not an issue I have to deal with.

Bels
06-05-2009, 22:25
For future referance I would be interested in suppliers in Moscow for such specialist course books such as legal, medical , and for Russian pilots for example. All I have done in the past has been to use general or business course books and specialising with the dictionaries of that particular profession. And by using the internet covering that particular area.

However the market is small for me, as I only get the occasional enquiry. For example a pilot once asked me to teach him him English to pass a test in English. I asked him when he was going to take the test, and he said within a month. His level was about Elementary, and I told it would be impossible and refused, unless he would have the patience to learn over at least a year. I didn't hear from him again.

Bels
12-05-2009, 20:35
To all private teachers. You will soon discover students' needs in Russia. For example I have received several interests in immagrating to Australia. This would be your job to discover what they need. You have to make your searchin what they require in the English language. What do you think they need for a qualified doctor or accountant in this country for example? They need more than IELTS and that is for sure. I have made made my seaches and my findings are interesting. Find your student's needs, that's all I can say. Every English native speaking country is different in their requirements. For the moment I am finding that enquiries are coming for the interest of immigrating to Australia, rather than Britain, Canada or USA. That's what I am experiencing. Yes it does surprise me.

Larry Paradine
16-05-2009, 14:13
I started this topic specifically to ask for information about ESP materials for lawyers and law students, and am grateful to two forum members (Ira M and kofola) for their helpful replies, but now the topic has been hijacked for an unsolicited monologue about students who want to emigrate and other unrelated matters. If anyone else has any information and/or advice to offer pertaining to the original subject matter, I'll thank you for your contribution, but otherwise I can't see any point to continuing this thread.

Bels
17-05-2009, 20:28
Don't you think you are being unfriendly on this site. Don't you believe that we all have other new specialist areas that we may have to to teach? Yes we may well have legal to deal with and many other area. Don't get so stuffy!!

I have for example had two doctors from Russia, of who had a reasonable command of English. They didn't inform me specifically of their plans, but by their clues I searched the internet and discovered what they wanted. They want to immigrate to Australia, and to do so they must pass a professional test. I found this professional test and it was most useful to my needs. Plenty of roleplay cards etc, in order to pass this test. And yes most tests require the four skills, written, spoken, listening and reading skills.

Listen to your sudents when they speak to you, they may well give you clues if you question them enough. Student need!! that's important!!

ou have mentioned law, but is this the only enquiry you have? As you may may well have other enquiries from other students, such as IELTS, Cambidge courses, British citizenship, medical, legal, and financial passing for immigration purposes. In most case your students find it extremely important that you as an English teacher will have the solutions for them to pass the English test of whatever they require.

Philip73
17-05-2009, 21:32
Hi Larry.

You may be able to download for free lots of legalese ELT material from the site englishtips.org. For example, I downloaded 'Check your Vocabulary for Law', by Rawdon Wyatt ( isbn 978 0 7136 76044, A & C Black). This is a vocabulary workbook only, not a course book. Still very good, though.

For a full-on course book, I recommend 'International Legal English', by CUP. This is readily available in most Moscow ELT bookshops, and comes with CDs for listening practice etc.

If your students are planning to take an exam, then check out the ILEC exam materials (CUP again) as they are excellent, in my experience.

There are lots of cheaply-produced Russian copies of American law course books in the main ELT suppliers too, e.g. in Moskva bookshop I picked up a book called "American Legal Studies", by Debra S. Lee, J.D., Michigan Press. No audio though, which can be a pain sometimes.

Hope that helps. Please don't give up on your thread. BELS is a known idiot who cannot even write without making loads of ignorant mistakes. Pity he has so much to say on everything, without actually saying anything useful.

@BELS, I have to agree with Larry. You are hijacking this thread, for your own ego I guess. Please stop.

Larry Paradine
22-05-2009, 21:29
Many thanks Philip73. It's informative and to the point replies like yours that make me feel it's worth asking questions in this forum.

BELS I think you should devote more of your time to replying to your critics on another forum (you know which one I mean) who accuse you, inter alia, of operating under false pretences, i.e. you're either a native English speaker as you claim to be, in which case your abyssmal ignorance of English syntax, grammar and spelling should disqualify you from teaching your native tongue, or you're a non native speaker, in which case your numerous linguistic errors can be overlooked, even forgiven, but you should not try passing yourself off as something you patently are not.

Philip73
23-05-2009, 00:35
Hi Larry

No bother mate. Hope that website helps tide you over till you buy your own original books, heh heh. Good luck to you.

Re BELS: there are so many things he is trying to pass himself off as, which did you mean? Native English speaker; teacher; literate; knowledgeable about Moscow and Russia; all of the above?

It's quite astonishing that other people thank him for his posts. And even if he is a non-native speaker, I do not think that exonerates his foul syntax, so I am not so inclined to be so forgiving. And, incidentally, I know of no non-native speaker of English who teaches in Russia who would commit such crass gaffes in public. They would be scandalised, and a lot more competent in the first place.

BTW, another good law book which I've dipped into from time to time is 'Business Law and Contracts - short guide' ISBN-10: 2912460891.

Bels
23-05-2009, 23:53
Hi Larry

No bother mate. Hope that website helps tide you over till you buy your own original books, heh heh. Good luck to you.

Re BELS: there are so many things he is trying to pass himself off as, which did you mean? Native English speaker; teacher; literate; knowledgeable about Moscow and Russia; all of the above?

It's quite astonishing that other people thank him for his posts. And even if he is a non-native speaker, I do not think that exonerates his foul syntax, so I am not so inclined to be so forgiving. And, incidentally, I know of no non-native speaker of English who teaches in Russia who would commit such crass gaffes in public. They would be scandalised, and a lot more competent in the first place.

BTW, another good law book which I've dipped into from time to time is 'Business Law and Contracts - short guide' ISBN-10: 2912460891.

Welcome to the site Philip73. Is it possible you could introduce yourself here? By going to Introductions - The Moscow Expat Forums (http://www.expat.ru/forum/introductions/)

Perhaps you could let us know a littlittle about yourself, maybe let us know how you found expat.ru, what your nationality is, and why you are interested in contributing to this forum?

Whatever : Welcome to expat.ru, as I am sure you will enjoy yourself here, topics are varied here, and not just about teaching, as this site is all about living in Russia, whether you are Russian or expat.

Philip73
30-05-2009, 04:01
Welcome? Is this the beginning of typical BELS bullying? Try again. I've been on this site for 2 years, thanks. And I'm more than able for you and your ilk. There's a cool word. Look that up in a dictionary. If you know what a dictionary is and have one, (I assume). Otherwise, try answering the questions posed to you, oh almighty know-all. Or else shut up.