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twaj
04-09-2003, 15:20
I read something in the Exile that I couldn't help but agree with:

Colombians fight, that's just what they do. Only way to stop them doing it is kill them all and we won't do that. You won't turn Colombia into Ohio, all you'll do is get some dumb suckers who joined the U.S. Army to get college money killed, and make us look even weaker and dumber to the rest of the world than we do now.

Where does America get the silly notion that it will turn third world countries, many of them former colonies, into stable, investment-friendly western-style democracies? Does anyone in fact believe this at the top or do they see war as a natural resources grab for Halliburton, etc? If turning Malawi into Michigan meant that we had to just kill everyone and move in pioneer-style, would it be better in the long run? This was done systematically in the 19th century, even under seemingly enlightened presidents such as Abe Lincoln and Andrew Jackson. When did this mentality start to lose appeal: after the US took the Phillipines from the Spanish, when women got the vote, or in reaction to the Nazi holocaust?

allice
04-09-2003, 15:32
this is one online conversation starter:

politics, democracy, war discussed in 'exile'...

sureeeeeeeeeee di do

let's go ahead and talk about that

conspiracy theory anyone?

and T, when you say America -- what/who the hell do you mean?

aaahhh, don't bother to reply to that...

live a life

Jet
04-09-2003, 15:43
Cuba - si.... :D

Broadmoor Bob
04-09-2003, 15:57
Cuba si, Castro no! (or better yet, Cuba si - Castro castrado!)

Jet
04-09-2003, 16:05
here we go, a man America loves to hate or hate to love :D
Hey, to me: Cuba - si, Yankee - si

mir, druzhba, zhevachka or peace, friendship and cheewing gum

Broadmoor Bob
04-09-2003, 16:08
Listen, ever since he took over, Cuban cigars have gone into a steady decline. For that alone, he deserves to go to the Hague. All the rest is debatable, I guess :D

Jet
04-09-2003, 16:14
No, that is actually debatable, cigars are hand-made products, thank God, no technology involved, besides if I am not mistaken, cigars made in Miami are still not up to Cuban standards, although they are made by cubans.

Broadmoor Bob
04-09-2003, 16:15
The problem has to do with the quality of Cuban leaf since Castro took over - not with the very simple manufacturing process.

twaj
04-09-2003, 16:20
Um...context... US Government... or did you think I meant the hemisphere? I never mentioned conspiracies - the Halliburton stuff is open knowledge. I just think that war without conquest is like sex without the orgasm.

I don't know Cigars well enough for Cuban vs. Dominican to be more than a matter of semiotics.


Originally posted by allice

and T, when you say America -- what/who the hell do you mean?

aaahhh, don't bother to reply to that...

live a life

Jet
04-09-2003, 16:22
Bob, that's right, it depends largely on the leaf, which in turn depends on the climate

allice
04-09-2003, 16:22
when you say US Government, what/who do you mean?
just an inquiry...

twaj
04-09-2003, 16:25
State Dept/Bush Administration... Allice, you have to understand the beauty of generalizations...


Originally posted by allice
when you say US Government, what/who do you mean?
just an inquiry...

allice
04-09-2003, 16:29
State Dept/Bush Administration -- these are peeps right? who are they? Generalizations are for bragging about something you have no idea about

NB I do NOT pretend I do, I'm just asking questions:)

twaj
04-09-2003, 16:51
Generalizations are for simplifying something when you assume people know what you're talking about. :p When a president is elected in the United States, he appoints Cabinet members for departments of the government who then have a large deal of discretion in implementing policy. The State Department handles foreign policy although the Defense Department handles wars. Secretary of State Colin Powell is credited with what is called the "Powell Doctrine," a war stragegy he developed when he was the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - the highest ranking officer in the American military. According to the public television channel (PBS),

"Essentially, the Doctrine expresses that military action should be used only as a last resort and only if there is a clear risk to national security by the intended target; the force, when used, should be overwhelming and disproportionate to the force used by the enemy; there must be strong support for the campaign by the general public; and there must be a clear exit strategy from the conflict in which the military is engaged."

However, the Iraqi War and things like the Liberian intervention don't gel with this doctrine.


Originally posted by allice
State Dept/Bush Administration -- these are peeps right? who are they? Generalizations are for bragging about something you have no idea about

NB I do NOT pretend I do, I'm just asking questions:)

allice
04-09-2003, 16:55
Never assume people know what you are talking about:p
It's very likely they don't:D

re your post two words:

Mass Media

Broadmoor Bob
04-09-2003, 16:58
Originally posted by Jet Li
Bob, that's right, it depends largely on the leaf, which in turn depends on the climate

But apparently the quality of the crop has declined - I'm really a pipe smoker and don't follow cigars that much, but it might have to do with Castro needing currency and therefore forcing Habanos to sell crap leaf that would have been thrown out in the old days - could also have to do with crummy or lacking fertilizer and pesticides since the embargo.

Then again, most of the people who remember pre-Castro Cubans are old-timers who could just have the mentality of whatever was around when they were young had to be better. Still, I can see that plenty of Partagas, Cohiba etc look and smoke like ****e.

Jet
04-09-2003, 17:00
local Cuban climate that can not be found even in Miami, that's first,

quality of leaf, that is difficult to say hwo much it has to do with pestesides

twaj
04-09-2003, 17:11
Well yeah - I was giving you the 'party line.' :p The fact is that all of these chicken hawks are crooks. (Chicken Hawks - guys like Bush and Cheney that dodged going to war when they were younger and now want to fight in Iraq/Liberia/wherever.)



Originally posted by allice
re your post two words:

Mass Media

uninformed
04-09-2003, 21:46
"former colonies?" The US was, itself, a colony once. It has never been a colonial power.

J.D.
05-09-2003, 08:21
Since the turn of the century, following the Spanish American war, I think the US became a neo-psuedo-colonial power. They aquired the Phillipines and Cuba from Spain. Of course Panama, Puerto Rico and dozens of islands in the Atlantic and the Pacific. I think the US is as close as one could get to a colonial power in this modern world. Discounting Comunist Russia and Nazi Germany that is.