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85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 12:47
Well, here's an attempt to breathe some life into this folder - and it is an honest discussion.

What of those of us men who are just not cut out for having a family - like me? Are we destined to live alone for the rest of our lives (not a horrible problem for me) - or are there women out there for us? I just can't see myself having children, and I'm not sure I want to bring a child into this world of terrorism, disease, war and other pleasantries (although I believe things are getting better and will get better, the next 20 years are sort of the beginning of the end and we sadly may see more 9-11 and Beslan type incidents) - and I am too honest to get involved with a woman who clearly does want a family - but it does get lonely at times. Then again, if the choice is between children and being alone, I'd take the latter, and just live like a big 85 stone polar bear - strong, powerful, respected, loved in a way, but from a distance - and alone.

And of course, there is another question - will I ever change my mind and decide that I do want children - or is there someone out there who can make me change my mind (and please, this is a matter for honest discussion, not for any sort of nonsense that some people may dream up - maybe there are others who married and had families later after feeling the way I do for a while).

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 13:08
Why is it that you don't want children? I didn't really want any either, or never gave it much thought. But it's been the greatest thing in my life (greater than anything I could have imagined) having my little dude. You have a friend, you get to watch 'em grow and learn. Makes my heart melt when he says "pop. You're cool." He's only 5, but loves rock-n-roll, we laugh our asses off together. He says the funniest things! You don't know what you're missing.

Ledka
30-09-2004, 13:18
FA-Q!
ur son is really great! U r a very lucky father! He is so smart and cute!!!!!

Bear,
if u r asking this question this already means that u do want to have kids... but this wish is still somewhere deep inside you.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 13:23
Well, Ledka - you may be right - could be that I have changed, or it could just be part of my reaction to Beslan, but I actually *shudders* found myself paying attention to a baby boy as opposed to being bothered by his presence the last time I went out to eat in a "family" type place. But still - I don't think I can do it - too many goals, too many dreams that would die if I had to get home by a certain time, and I just don't have the right temperament for raising children. I'm a creative type who needs to be alone when I'm not actively doing something productive where I'm involved with others.

Fa-Q - yes, they say it all changes when you actually do have children. But I am not so sure that it is worth the tradeoff in my case - of course everyone is different.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 13:42
I can't imagine what goals and dreams could be so important. I'm not gonna sit here and sell you on the idea but it sounds to me like you want a family. Ya gotta start with a woman, dude.

Ledka
30-09-2004, 13:42
u sound as if u were supposed to be the mother of the family.... u can keep doing the same things and work hard on your goals.... who will be the heir of ur "achieved success" u r going to?

Ledka
30-09-2004, 13:43
"Ya gotta start with a woman, dude."

Right! If there's a lady u love and want to share ur life with, do not hesitate!!!!! Life is short!!!!! And u r not getting younger!

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 13:44
Problem is that once you have a child, you want to see him/her grow - and nowadays women are modern and expect help from their husbands. Heir - everything I have when my time comes, including me, goes to medical research.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 13:45
No, I'm really still 80% against having a family - and in a way I fear that falling in love may push that 80% away, with disaster resulting in the end for all parties concerned.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 13:48
Well, I think the kid issue is something that you shouldn't worry about now. You should have a solid relationship before you even consider having kids. Find yourself the right woman and the rest will take care of itself.

DPG
30-09-2004, 13:50
It may sound insensitive, but I've never understood people who say things like "I don't want to have kids after 9/11 or the Beslan thing or whatever current war is raging etc".

I definitely want kids in the future, and there's no way I'm going to allow something over which I have no control, and which most likely won't affect me directly to prevent me from doing so, or provide me with a reason not to...

Like everyone says when people stop going on holiday/using the metro/going into the city centre after some such tragic event - do that and they are winning.

Ledka
30-09-2004, 13:53
"Heir - everything I have when my time comes, including me, goes to medical research."

This is very knightly!
But I don't mean material stuff only...

"nowadays women are modern and expect help from their husbands"
Nowadays there also nannies who can help you to share your duty... I am sure that your 6 cats need attention and care too... And you seem to be ok with it.

But of course there's nothing special about your decision not to have kids... there are many people like you. I know one girl who has a nice husband and they are very comfortably provided for, but she decided not to have kids cos she doesn't want to loose her shapes....

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 13:54
Here's another perpective:

I would like kids (I think) at some point in the future, but here is my dilemma, I have a genetic condition that has had a fair amount of impact in my life and will always continue to do so. The chance of passing this on is 50%. How the hell am I meant to choose whether or not to risk passing it on??

Makes the whole 'whether or not to have children' choice somewhat more complicated.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 13:54
I did not want kids to begin with; actually it was seeing the ruins of the WTC, where I spent much time, that reinforced the decision. That tragedy was committed by human beings. Human beings start their lives as kids. Do I want to bring such a species into the world? Not sure. Most of all, can I bring up such a species properly? Triply not sure - I'm a cat person because cats take care of themselves. I doubt I could even raise a dog - if I thought I could I'd get myself a large breed tomorrow. I always thought it a bit absurd for someone who weighs 100 kgs and wants to go no lower than 90 to have 6 pets who tip the scales at but 25 kgs combined :).

Even the most aggressive predatory beast - and that award probably goes to my identity here at least as far as land mammals are concerned!! ;) ;) - does not destroy in the way that "human beings" do.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 14:01
That's all really cynical and sad, my friend. War, murder, violence is nothing new on this planet- neither is laughter and love. I can understand the question of humanity thing, I walked around in a daze for about a year after reading Dostoevsky's major works. Thing is, that's all crap that you dream up on your own. The world's a beautiful place and mankind, for the most part, is good.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:02
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
Thing is, that's all crap that you dream up on your own.

I understand what you're getting at - but I wish 9-11 were but a bad dream :(.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 14:04
It's over, dude. Move on.

DPG
30-09-2004, 14:05
Hear hear...

And if anything, the "new world order" which has arisen as a result of it, has us firmly at the top...

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 14:06
Bear, you and I have crossed paths on this in considerably less polite manner, so I have little to say that will surprise you. I will say, nonethelss, that I am incapable of being objective about the subject of kids - I've wanted them since I was one myself. I could take the easy way out and say I wanted to make up for my f..ked up childhood, which was pretty f..ked up, but I seem to remember wanting kids even before things got bad for me. I think the closest to the truth is that I just feel an affinity for something so small and innocent, and as Fa-Q alluded to, the desire to hand raise my very own best friend is completely overpowering.

I have a 1 year 4 month old daughter, who has been walking solid for about 3 months and is just now beginning to talk. The way she repeats the things I say, the way she's learning to tailor her facial expressions to lend certain shades of meaning to what are, in essence, semi-nonsense utterances, and most of all - the way she holds up her arms at me in the "GOAL!" position and screams "PAPA PAPA PAPA PAPA!!!" every time I walk in the door at the end of the day...well, those things are but a few of the reasons I'm convinced that this desire I've had for children since I was a child myself is perhaps the most benign and useful impetus my life has ever known. Ask everybody who has ever tried to drag me to a Boozers...they'll tell you if it interferes with my family life, sfj ain't gonna be there. I think that ability to put my family completely first has guided my hand in nothing but positive directions, and I also believe the same would be true for ANYBODY guided by the same force.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:06
When is the next one? And what will it be? A dirty bomb?

I live my life to the fullest - but not sure if I want to bring anyone else into this situation.

Ned Kelly
30-09-2004, 14:07
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
That's all really cynical and sad, my friend. War, murder, violence is nothing new on this planet- neither is laughter and love. I can understand the question of humanity thing, I walked around in a daze for about a year after reading Dostoevsky's major works. Thing is, that's all crap that you dream up on your own. The world's a beautiful place and mankind, for the most part, is good.

beautifully put.

it seems to me pb that you're bowing to the dark side of humanity in your approach.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 14:08
Ah Bear, we all got to die of something....I'd rather I knew nothing about it that spend years dying slowly of something like cancer....

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:10
SFJ, our argument back then was a mistake - I probably posted in very stark terms because I had had a meal literally ruined by irresponsible parents the night before I posted - and in the end we agreed :). Listen, to each his own. I am still not sure.

And yes, if I had family I would skip a social engagement (and as you may have seen it does not take much to get me to skip Boozers ;)) - but would I skip a business engagement? NO! Would I conceivably be forced to do same for some reason? YES! Do I then want to end up clicking on that ad for a family lawyer if the conflict happens too many times? NO, NO, NO, NO, NO - but that is what could well happen!

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:13
Originally posted by Smurfette
Ah Bear, we all got to die of something....I'd rather I knew nothing about it that spend years dying slowly of something like cancer....

Point is not me - point is would I want to see a child I brought into this world blown up or brought into a world where he/she could be blown up?

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 14:15
Can't control everything, I have a genetic mutation, what I have my parents do not. Its not their fault.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 14:16
You have that approach toward biz, because it's probably the most important thing in your life. That could change, though.

DPG
30-09-2004, 14:16
I bumped into you in the street yesterday Polar - why do you go out if you could be hit by a car??...something of which there is far more chance in Moscow than being affected by a dirty bomb etc...

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 14:18
Bear, this "getting blown up" shit is so ****ing stupid. Come off of it. Ooooh. I don't wanna have kids. They might get blown up. Say that out loud and tell me how reasonable it sounds to you.

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 14:18
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
Point is not me - point is would I want to see a child I brought into this world blown up or brought into a world where he/she could be blown up? That's the pessimist approach, dude. Don't focus on the end, focus on where you are at each and every moment. Never hurts to take precautions, know your environment, engage situational awareness, but don't let your attention to any of those things disable you from enjoying what you have in your hands, be it a relationship or your child. I admit I see your point, I would hate to see something happen to my girl and the Beslan thing was 2 weeks of daily reminders of that exact possibility...but again, it never clouded my vision to the point that I forgot she still IS alive and still bugging me to throw her up in the air. It's the little things, brother, they add up to a great big wonderful mess!

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:20
Originally posted by Smurfette
Can't control everything, I have a genetic mutation, what I have my parents do not. Its not their fault.

We all do - for some of us our lives are affected greatly (hopefully not in your case); for some it is a mild nuisance (not sure if high cholesterol is a mutation or just a trait, but I'm fortunate to be alive in this generation when there is medication for it that in essence will add 30 years to my life); for others it is meaningless. I don't worry about that kind of thing; prenatal testing is a must now in any case, and if I pass on what I have, so what - taking a pill every morning is no big deal.

But I do worry about being able to bring up a child properly against other committments that I find more rewarding.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:21
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
Bear, this "getting blown up" shit is so ****ing stupid. Come off of it. Ooooh. I don't wanna have kids. They might get blown up. Say that out loud and tell me how reasonable it sounds to you.

:) - oversimplification; maybe not making myself clear. More like - the atmosphere right now is in many ways not one for having children, and given my other concerns, maybe I'm just best off staying alone if that is what it means.

Ledka
30-09-2004, 14:24
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
Point is not me - point is would I want to see a child I brought into this world blown up or brought into a world where he/she could be blown up?

волков бояться -- в лес не ходить!

Dear Bear, please ask your parents if they have ever been sorry that they brouht you into this world...and would they like to change things if they could return the time. I am sure it would be 200% NOOOOOOOOO

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:26
But my parents' generation was different. Different goals, different expectations. My mother was not expected to have a career; I think she would have been better off if she did. Nowadays, 2 career couples are and should be the norm.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 14:27
Not everyone wants children, the chances of my sister having kids is pretty small, she just ranks other things more highly (even from being very young). After all it's not like the world needs more people.....

DPG
30-09-2004, 14:29
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
But my parents' generation was different. Different goals, different expectations. My mother was not expected to have a career; I think she would have been better off if she did. Nowadays, 2 career couples are and should be the norm.

And my generation will be different from that of my kids...

Retrospect is a lovely thing, not afforded to us when MAKING the decision in the first place...and not being afforded it shouldn't stop us from making that decision, whatever it may be.

Who's to say that in 20 years the state of the world will not be some type of utopic haven...?!

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:30
Yes, everyone is different. The question I ask myself sometimes is whether a life alone is the best solution, whether I might be best off in some sort of non traditional arrangement where, for instance, I live here and am involved with someone who lives elsewhere as we manage our separate careers and meet on the weekends - or whether I should just allow myself to fall in love, and whether that will change everything?

DPG
30-09-2004, 14:31
If you are questioning whether to allow yourself to fall in love, it means that you already have...it's not something over which we have conscious control or influence, nor should we...

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 14:31
Lol! I know couple of marriages where that arrangement works very well!

Ned Kelly
30-09-2004, 14:32
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
I live here and am involved with someone who lives elsewhere as we manage our separate careers and meet on the weekends - or whether I should just allow myself to fall in love, and whether that will change everything?

the latter for sure man.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 14:32
DPG you are an incurable romantic!!!

DPG
30-09-2004, 14:33
Nah - just a realist...

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:34
Originally posted by DPG
If you are questioning whether to allow yourself to fall in love, it means that you already have...it's not something over which we have conscious control or influence...

Nope - definitely have not and have probably avoided many situations where I could have, instead choosing friendships with women whom I could never love romantically.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 14:34
I always work on the principle of if I have to think about it, I'm not in love....

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 14:37
Originally posted by Smurfette
I always work on the principle of if I have to think about it, I'm not in love....

And the problem is that I am very analytical - and perhaps incapable of ever falling in love if the first thing I analyse is whether she wants children. And the fact is that some of the nicest women out there are the ones who really do want children - and one such woman, happily married, is one of my best friends - as well as one person with whom I could never have fallen in love as I knew from the start that she was family oriented!

polly
30-09-2004, 15:53
risks. i think a lot in life comes down to taking risks.
sometimes you regret taking a risk, but i think more often than not i have regretted NOT taking risks.
if that makes any sense....

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 15:56
It just depends upon which risk you want to take! You can always correct a business or career problem, but to be left in a mess because of a relationship that went bad due to the child issue is not a worthwhile risk.

polly
30-09-2004, 16:02
but can you objectively say that it's not worthwhile never having had children? i can't. despite the horror stories we all hear, i have seen many couples whose relationships were not destroyed by "the child issue." many people's lives seem to be enriched by it.
it seems like you are regarding the idea of "child" as some sort of alien being that you will feel no emotion for. sure, there's the "another mouth to feed" aspects of this strange small person who needs you 24/7. but i think i a lot of parents need their kids back.
i'm not trying to change your mind, maybe just look at it from a different perspective. i'm in noooo rush to have kids myself. but i think it'll happen eventually.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:05
I need my son. When the world goes wrong, he's still bouncing off the walls screaming "let's play". Besides, he's the only one in my family that appreciates my toilet humor.

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:16
We have had this discussion here before, and I stand by what I wrote then. I do not see any need for children, I do not want children, never have never will. All I see is that they disrupt your life, cost money and seriously restrict you. I also believe some people live through their children, and that's just plain sad.

I went to school with a whole bunch of kids, that was enough for me!

Got nothing against them, but if you have them keep 'em away from me.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:18
Yeah. Keep 'em away from him! He likes to fiddle about!:agree:

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:20
That's not even remotely funny.

Braders
30-09-2004, 16:21
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
We have had this discussion here before, and I stand by what I wrote then. I do not see any need for children, I do not want children, never have never will. All I see is that they disrupt your life, cost money and seriously restrict you. I also believe some people live through their children, and that's just plain sad.

I went to school with a whole bunch of kids, that was enough for me!

Got nothing against them, but if you have them keep 'em away from me.

I share a similar view, would disrupt my life here no-end, i know i'm being a selfish bastard, but i won't say never.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 16:22
Originally posted by polly
it seems like you are regarding the idea of "child" as some sort of alien being that you will feel no emotion for

No - problem is that I will feel emotion - and it will conflict with other goals. See, the thing is that finally, I have my weight problem under control, and as I mentioned before I am under successful treatment for high cholesterol. Both of those problems shortened some of my older relatives' lives and the latter caused my father to develop an (admittedly very mild) disability - had the medication been available when he was my age he would never have had a heart attack and would be able to eat and engage in activity as he wishes. So when I look at things now, I see that I could have as much as 60 years left to enjoy life - almost as long as some of the men in my family 2 generations ago even lived - and the question is - do I want to live all of that time alone? I think I can, but what am I missing, and would I trade what I'm missing for the problems that could arise if I were to have a family "against my better judgement?"

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:22
I know, I know. Keith Moon is hilarious, though.

Ledka
30-09-2004, 16:27
DJ and Braders,
I just wonder what you will do if suddenly (everything can happen even with nowadays advanced medicine) your wife gets pregnant, will you make her do an abortion or will you divorce her if she decidds to save the baby.
And the other question is: would u like to make sterilization without any chances to return it back if you change your mind?

sir Gay
30-09-2004, 16:29
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
That's all really cynical and sad, my friend. War, murder, violence is nothing new on this planet- neither is laughter and love. I can understand the question of humanity thing, I walked around in a daze for about a year after reading Dostoevsky's major works. Thing is, that's all crap that you dream up on your own. The world's a beautiful place and mankind, for the most part, is good.

exactly! like some one wiser said, 'heaven and hell are within you'. it's always the matter of our attitude to things, the way we treat facts and events, pessimistically or optimistically :)

and, however silly or awkward it sonds in my mouth, kids are a huge blessing to parents and everyone whom they touch with their smiles, questions, grieves...

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 16:32
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Got nothing against them, but if you have them keep 'em away from me. Get the highchairs out at the Albion, I'm dragging my kid in for a few jars [of some unholy mashed ****] next time I come out! :D

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 16:32
LOL - the drinking age here is not THAT low!

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:33
Originally posted by Ledka
DJ and Braders,
I just wonder what will you do if suddenly (everything can happen even with nowadays advanced medicine) your wife gets pregnant, will you make her do an abortion or will you divorce her if she decidds to save the baby.
And the other question is: would u like to make sterilization without any chances to return it back if you change your mind?

First of all, how do you know I am NOT sterile?

And, it wouldn't bother me for a single second.

As to abortion or divorce, can't answer that one actually but must admit I would certainly consider the first option rather than be saddled with a child I do not want.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 16:35
DJ at least you're honest! Have to say that if I got pregnant now I'd have an abortion for pretty much the same reasons, I don't want to be stuck with a child. Maybe some day but not now!

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 16:36
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
As to abortion or divorce, can't answer that one actually but must admit I would certainly consider the first option rather than be saddled with a child I do not want. And as much as I love my daughter and children in general, I hope nobody EVER loses that choice!

Braders
30-09-2004, 16:36
Originally posted by Ledka
DJ and Braders,
I just wonder if suddnely (everything can happen even with nowadays advanced medicine) your wife gets pregnant, will you make her to do an abortion or will you divorce her if she decidds to save the baby.

Took less than 1 second to ponder that question, i'd be a father!

I'd never be able to live with myself if i aborted my son/daughter, i would wonder what my wife ever saw in me if i opted for the second option, i'd question my sanity as well come to think of it.

I like kids, spend most of my time in the UK with nieces and nephews when i go over there, but i am still glad when i can hand them back at the end of the day or the next Morning.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 16:38
Braders - You have a very lucky wife

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:39
I differ from you Braders,I don't really like children.

As to choice, that's a whole different issue. I hope I am careful and sensible enough when sleeping with women to avoid having to make that choice, and being anti-children I am very careful!!

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:40
I nearly **** myself when "we" got pregnant. I didn't have two nickles to rub together and I was having a difficult time trying to get a career started. But anyone that's seen my little rugrat would understand why I wouldn't change anything for the world.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 16:41
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
I differ from you Braders,I don't really like children.

As to choice, that's a whole different issue. I hope I am careful and sensible enough when sleeping with women to avoid having to make that choice, and being anti-children I am very careful!!

Serious advice - get your tubes tied (assuming it is 100% foolproof).

Ledka
30-09-2004, 16:42
Originally posted by Braders
Took less than 1 second to ponder that question, i'd be a father!

glad to hear that. znachit, ne vse eshe poteryano.
Somehting tells me that in some years you'll be a very good father!

Braders
30-09-2004, 16:42
Originally posted by Smurfette
Braders - You have a very lucky wife

I'm the lucky one. :)

Sidney Bliss
30-09-2004, 16:42
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
But anyone that's seen my little rugrat would understand why I wouldn't change anything for the world.

:agree:

Disneylass
30-09-2004, 16:44
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
Serious advice - get your tubes tied (assuming it is 100% foolproof).

there are less radical methods available.sounds terrible to me, yet i know many modern men do it ( well, after having had three or more kids).

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 16:45
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
...anyone that's seen my little rugrat would understand why I wouldn't change anything for the world. Ditto brothah!

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:45
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
Serious advice - get your tubes tied (assuming it is 100% foolproof).

As I said, maybe I already did.

I think those people like Braders would be great fathers and people like me simply shouldn't be fathers.

To reiterate I don't get it, parenting I mean.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:45
Won't that prevent you from shootin' a big wad? **** that!

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:48
HAHA!!

You are real father material.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 16:49
Originally posted by Disneylass
there are less radical methods available.sounds terrible to me, yet i know many modern men do it ( well, after having had three or more kids).


It's hardly radical! Key hole day surgery, and nevermind after 3 kids I know many men who've had it done after 2!

allice
30-09-2004, 16:49
Anybody for a beer tonight?

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 16:51
Originally posted by allice
Anybody for a beer tonight?


Anyone who doesn't have to run home and change nappies or listen to some small entity talking rubbish that is! :D :D

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:53
Albion after work. See ya'll there.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 16:53
If people are getting together, I'll pass by - but no alcohol whatsoever here as I've gotta finish some work at home tonight.

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 16:54
Sorry, Allice - I have to run home to change nappies and get pissed with my daughter.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:55
Wow! She is gorgeous! I want one of those!

allice
30-09-2004, 16:55
Originally posted by sfjohns67
Sorry, Allice - I have to run home to change nappies and get pissed with my daughter.

She looks like missus. :)

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 16:56
darn - and I spoke too soon - forgot that I have to pick up a few things on my way home and I can't make it either.

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 16:57
Heh heh, y'all done opened up the floodgate. The first one was her 'gettin pissed with pops' pic, here's her 'Daddy buy me a new Corvette' pic...

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 16:59
aw...

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 17:00
Damned kid ain't even started speaking coherently yet and I'm already wrapped around her finger.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 17:02
Well, I guess that answers the question. Do I see myself like that? Am I amused, let alone enchanted by the pictures? Answer - not really. So I guess I am best off indeed living out my life as a lone male polar bear - I will find happiness alone rather than risk the outcome of what could happen if I go against what I know is best for me.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 17:03
She's adorable!!!!!

jules
30-09-2004, 17:13
Up until fairly recently, I didn't want kids - I just didn't feel ready, and I hadn't met anyone that I could imagine as the father to my children. I didn't want just a 'sperm donor' but someone who would take an active part of raising our kids - as active as I would. I couldn't imagine having a baby on my own - infants are just too demanding. I had even thought about adopting an older child, because I do have these maternal urges, but don't think I could handle a baby on my own.

I've been very lucky - I met a wonderful man who loves kids, and I think he will make an amazing father. It's good, because I am just getting to the point where my biological clock is starting to tick pretty loudly - but if I hadn't met him, I wouldn't go out and have a kid just to silence the clock.

Bear, you have the advantage, as a man, of postponing your pass into parenthood for a while longer. I really only have another 10 years or so, and even then the risk of Down's or other problems will grow. You have another 20 years or so to decide! Remember, former Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau fathered a child at the ripe old age of 71! ;)

Plus, anyone with six cats obviously has enough care and patience for children - I've noticed that my brother's stories about his kids sound a lot like my stories about what my cats get up to - except kids grow up and learn to stop knocking the flowerpots off the sill...

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 17:14
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
Am I amused, let alone enchanted by the pictures? Answer - not really. Wait'll it's your own kid looking at you like that, enchanted ain't even the word, bro!

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 17:16
exactly!

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 17:19
Cats are very different from children - especially with more than 1 they need little attention. I should also mention that recently, I had to purchase a baby gift as a friend of mine became a father (at 55)! Now, as a marketing professional, I am the LAST man anyone would want to go shopping with, because I am often drawn to analyse EVERY product and EVERY brand I see in the category I need and on every nearby shelf (that includes cosmetics and womens' fragrance which I often do buy as gifts, but I had to be a little careful when professional reasons led me to a lingerie shop!!!). However, when I was in Detsky Mir in Mega Mall, I just "did not relate" to the merchandise - was even repulsed by it in some way - and I just selected the first doll I saw marked suitable for newborns - and I headed out of that store as fast as I could - it was just not my place and never will be my place.

Sidney Bliss
30-09-2004, 17:20
Cats are disloyal bastards.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 17:22
Cats make good foot rugs.

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 17:22
Originally posted by Sidney Bliss
Cats are disloyal bastards.

Oh and children aren't?

sfjohns67
30-09-2004, 17:22
Yeah, but they really do land feet-first when you drop em from 4 floors up!



Cats too.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 17:23
Originally posted by sfjohns67
Wait'll it's your own kid looking at you like that, enchanted ain't even the word, bro!

But I find that those who are the types for parenting indeed enjoy looking at pictures of others' children as they can relate. I can't - no insult, but I find pics of baby animals in National Geographic to be more my thing. Maybe because I know that a baby polar bear or Amur tiger will never enter my life in any way, whereas I am sort of turned off by the idea of raising a child. Again, no insult - to each his own.

Sidney Bliss
30-09-2004, 17:23
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Oh and children aren't?

You said it yourself DJ - you don't get it.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 17:24
Originally posted by sfjohns67
Yeah, but they really do land feet-first when you drop em from 4 floors up!



Cats too.

LOL - 5 years or more for the first - 60 days for the second!

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 17:29
Originally posted by Sidney Bliss
You said it yourself DJ - you don't get it.

Fair point. But having been a child myself I do know that children are disloyal, cheat, lie, steal and dis their parents, it's natural and inevitable.

I am sure you will cope very well when it get's to that time when you realise that your children hate you just as you hated your own father/mother whoever. Personally I am too selfish and shallow to be able to manage that and all the other hardships and sacrifices necessary.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 17:32
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Oh and children aren't?

Children are very loyal - my parents brought me up, loved me. cared for me, supported me, funded my education and are still willing to help out (to the point where they are going to help me buy a flat). I owe them everything!

Why would I not be loyal to them??!?!?!?!?

Sidney Bliss
30-09-2004, 17:32
I was a model child! I had a date with Twiggy when I was 2 years old!

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 17:34
Originally posted by Smurfette
Children are very loyal - my parents brought me up, loved me. cared for me, supported me, funded my education and are still willing to help out (to the point where they are going to help me buy a flat). I owe them everything!

Why would I not be loyal to them??!?!?!?!?

You're a girl, right?

polly
30-09-2004, 17:44
what does chickitude have to do with it?

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 17:49
Oh come on!

Boys and girls behave differently, and interact with their parents differently. Boys are directly and abrasively awkward while girls are far more cunning in their approach to get what they want. Some actually do love and respect their parents throughout their childhood.

What happens when we grow up is different, then I think we all realise what sacrifices our parents went through, often unfortunately it is too late.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 17:50
Boys and girls behave differently, and interact with their parents differently. Boys are directly and abrasively awkward while girls are far more cunning in their approach to get what they want. Some actually do love and respect their parents throughout their childhood.
=============================
Ok, Dr Spock.

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 17:52
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Oh come on!

What happens when we grow up is different, then I think we all realise what sacrifices our parents went through,

But did they really do it for us? Or is parenting the most selfish act on earth, where you bring someone into the world without being asked, and then try to mold that person according to your whims? I am not sure. I know I could never mold anyone according to my whims; I can get people to join in what I want to achieve in exchange for a reward (employees) - but again, I cannot raise a dog, let alone a child.

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 17:54
Originally posted by Fa-Q!
Boys and girls behave differently, and interact with their parents differently. Boys are directly and abrasively awkward while girls are far more cunning in their approach to get what they want. Some actually do love and respect their parents throughout their childhood.
=============================
Ok, Dr Spock.


Listen, before you take the proverbial get your facts right. Just how much do I really know about child psychology?

Then, do a search under that topic and punch in my surname, you may be in for a surprise.

Now when are we having those beers?

Sidney Bliss
30-09-2004, 17:57
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Listen, before you take the proverbial get your facts right. Just how much do I really know about child psychology?

Then, do a search under that topic and punch in my surname, you may be in for a surprise.



I typed 'children' and 'biscuit' and all they could come up with is 'Farley's rusks'.

Fa-Q!
30-09-2004, 17:57
allright, wiseass. I punched your name in Yahoo and all that came back is some cracker and cookie distrubutor Websites. Beer's on you?

85StonePolarBear
30-09-2004, 17:59
Decided I will come tonight - for ONE cider at most!

DJ Biscuit
30-09-2004, 18:01
So it didn't offer you the chance to buy books on hynotherapy, dealing with cancer, schizophrenia, or child psychology? Beer's on me anyway.

Smurfette
30-09-2004, 18:05
Ok, I admit that girls can be charming and adorable to get what I want, even then only for certain stuff, but that only works on my Dad and he does recognised the tone of voice!!!

Being nice to your parents is obviously going to work in your favour!!

Ledka
30-09-2004, 18:15
Originally posted by 85StonePolarBear
Well, I guess that answers the question. Do I see myself like that? Am I amused, let alone enchanted by the pictures? Answer - not really. So I guess I am best off indeed living out my life as a lone male polar bear - I will find happiness alone rather than risk the outcome of what could happen if I go against what I know is best for me.

if this makes U HAPPY, WE r HAPPY for u!!!!!

85StonePolarBear
01-10-2004, 00:34
Originally posted by Ledka
if this makes U HAPPY, WE r HAPPY for u!!!!!

Thanks - yes, it is probably the best way for me. I am expanding my business into a sphere which will entail longer hours, a more active lifestyle (much less posting on the Site, but I will always find time for my good friends here) etc - I will probably not even think about these issues soon as I will be wrapped up in something very rewarding that I will truly enjoy. If I succeed very quickly and sell out early, well, then I just might find the time and be in a frame of mind to fall in love - but love is something I leave to fate, and so far, well, it hasn't happened - and for me that is probably best right now and for the foreseeable future.

am4rw
01-10-2004, 02:32
Kids ain't for everyone. There are a lot of really screwed up people in the world with the biological capacity for procreation. Doesn't mean they should. Thank god for those who have the temperament and aptitude to make good parents. Thank god for those who know they would be lousy parents and forebear.

I never wanted kids. I would be a lousy parent. I knew this at 17, got my tubes tied in my early 30s, and 20 years later don't regret it in the least. I have two nephews I can buy drum sets for, and that's as much involvement as I need.

That said, I've been married 3 times, and all of them knew I didn't want kids, the last 2 knew I couldn't have them. Some promising prospects couldn't handle this, and we went our separate ways.

My current wife wasn't entirely happy about this at first, but decided that being married to such a wonderful man as myself was worth the sacrifice. She gets her jollies at school, and seems quite content to leave the little beggers there at the end of the day. She spends a lot on birthdays for our nephews and her cousin's kids, goes to their parties, and spoils them outrageously. They all love her.

Everyone who has kids or wants kids will tell you that you should want them too. Just like an alcoholic wants you to drink with him. But I personally think the world will be a better place if people like DJ and I don't screw up any kids and have them grow up to be terrorists or something. In my humble opinion, it simply shows our superior understanding of our own capabilities, not that we're defective.

sfjohns67
01-10-2004, 08:57
Originally posted by am4rw
Everyone who has kids or wants kids will tell you that you should want them too. Not everybody. I have nothing but respect for people like you and DJ and Bear who are self-aware enough to believe children are not for them, and I would be loathe to even jokingly suggest to anybody like yourselves that you 'should' have kids. You 'should' do whatever you feel is best for you, with a strong understanding of whether that is going to be best for your potential child.

85StonePolarBear
01-10-2004, 14:59
Originally posted by sfjohns67
Not everybody. I have nothing but respect for people like you and DJ and Bear who are self-aware enough to believe children are not for them, and I would be loathe to even jokingly suggest to anybody like yourselves that you 'should' have kids. You 'should' do whatever you feel is best for you, with a strong understanding of whether that is going to be best for your potential child.

Respect right back at you, mate! I am sure you are doing a fine job of raising your children and that it will show in their adult lives. If I thought I could do it too, I would.

Smurfette
01-10-2004, 15:07
Here is a little bit of information - in the UK at age 14 you are deemed responsible enough to look after children, but, you have to be at least 16 to buy any sort of animal.

Some people should not have children - maybe then I wouldn't dish out so much Ritalin. Fair enough 1 child has ADHD but when 3 kids from the same family are using it can you honestly say that that doesn't have anything to do with parenting skills

am4rw
01-10-2004, 19:12
Originally posted by sfjohns67
Not everybody. I have nothing but respect for people like you and DJ and Bear who are self-aware enough to believe children are not for them, and I would be loathe to even jokingly suggest to anybody like yourselves that you 'should' have kids. You 'should' do whatever you feel is best for you, with a strong understanding of whether that is going to be best for your potential child.

As with all generalities, my statement was incorrect in the specific. ;) But I can't count the number of times I've been told that I was "wrong" about not wanting kids, or how many times people have said, "You'll change your mind when you get older." I'm now at an age where I can guarantee that's not going to happen.

What I was trying to get at, answering Bear's original post, is that finding a lady to love you is possible if you don't want kids - even in Russia.