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View Full Version : Conviction? NO! What the Fu*k happened



is4fun
19-02-2009, 19:36
For those of you who care and know a little a bit of Russia I thought it was a slam dunk! LOL

Surprise!!!!!!


BBC NEWS | Europe | Politkovskaya suspects acquitted (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7899472.stm)

Qdos
19-02-2009, 21:04
Nothing about Russian verdicts ever surprises me, but it's pretty obvious that there were 'factions' other than the accused Chechen brothers who would have liked her silenced... :suspect:

DDT
19-02-2009, 21:06
Next they'll rule it was suicide!

BeachBum
19-02-2009, 22:54
For those of you who care and know a little a bit of Russia I thought it was a slam dunk! LOL

Surprise!!!!!!


BBC NEWS | Europe | Politkovskaya suspects acquitted (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7899472.stm)
No suprise here!!! next round of the Russian Legal system in action will be Khordokovsky getting another 10 years on the 'new' charges! ))))....

BTW.. Khordovosky is nominated as my chump of the week!

Scrat335
20-02-2009, 01:01
Really, let's not be so kneejerk on this. Could it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt who killed her? Did the prosecution present enough evidence?

I read her book, she pissed off A LOT of people. This goes a lot deeper than 2 brothers who for all we know are just scapegoats.

Does anybody really know what happened in that courtroom?

Carbo
20-02-2009, 01:14
Really, let's not be so kneejerk on this. Could it be proven beyond a reasonable doubt who killed her? Did the prosecution present enough evidence?

I read her book, she pissed off A LOT of people. This goes a lot deeper than 2 brothers who for all we know are just scapegoats.

Does anybody really know what happened in that courtroom?

I suspect the answer to that is no, they don't, Scrat. And it's a very, very good point.

Nobody knows what the hell happened, what the hell the truth is, and how the hell these two guys are involved.

Yet the screams are coming from the rafters.

Surfsup37
20-02-2009, 10:52
If you look at the conviction rate between juries and judges, the difference is about 85 to 98 or so. Judges almost always convict, while juries do not trust the government.

In fact, that is why the new "Treason" bills will be using Judges only, because the government wants to insure that anyone charged with "Treason" will be convicted.

The fact that they decided to use a jury in the first place was interesting to me. It is a good possibility that these guys were innocent, but who knows?

The person who ordered the contract will never be revealed.

Adamodeus
20-02-2009, 11:33
Next they'll rule it was suicide!
Hey, guess what? The government wants a scapegoat for this case as much as you do. If the prosecutor's office couldn't muster up a conviction, it must have been a very week case.

How happy would they be right now if they had a conviction? "Yeah, we've found Politkovskaya's killer! We rule!" In Russia, where conviction rate is the highest in the world, a jury didn't convict people on circumstantial evidence - some phone calls made by the brother at the time of the murder. I thought you guys would celebrate it as "a rare glimpse of democracy in action". But who am I kidding?

The funniest thing is - if this had been a conviction, there would have been an is4fun's post called "Evil Putin finds himself innocent scapegoats"...

Surfsup37
20-02-2009, 13:45
Well, from reading the English paper accounts, it appears that her colleagues and other groups inside never believed that these guys were the top guys.

It also appears that the case was really weak, so I give it a thumbs up. The allegation is that the prosecutors couldn't provide much more information, because it could identify the higher ups.

As far as the government goes, my guess is that some were hoping for a conviction, and others weren't. The lack of conviction is an additional warning to those journalist that piss off the wrong people. I don't believe any of the journalist's killers have ever been successfully prosecuted in Russia.

Anna Politkovskaya trial: Four accused found not guilty | Media | guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/feb/19/anna-politkovskaya-verdict)

Adamodeus
20-02-2009, 14:13
Maybe they'll do it right this time (I doubt it, but stranger things have happened):

BBC NEWS | Europe | Politkovskaya murder hunt reopens (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7901136.stm)

Scrat335
20-02-2009, 18:23
I will be happy when Annas killers are brought to justice, all of them. She was a truely brave soul and humanity is less without her in this world. That's all I have to say for now.

Russian Lad
21-02-2009, 02:13
Nobody knows what the hell happened, what the hell the truth is, and how the hell these two guys are involved.

Again, guys, look a bit deeper, the truth is out there. Did you notice that whenever there is a showcase trial in Russia with a very meek sentence or no sentence at all there is always a jury involved? Do you think Khodorkovskiy had a jury to present his case to in the Basmanniy court? Heh.
The style of this killing suggests Berezovskiy. And the court hearing was staged to lull the Western public. I would not be surprised if the "suspects" were paid by the Kremlin to participate in the farse.

Scrat335
21-02-2009, 19:17
You're reaching Russ Lad. Why would the Kremlin even bother to pay anyone when they could just threaten them with the gulag?

The closest I have ever been to the Russian legal system is sitting down on a potted plant in front of a building in Belgorod when I shouldn't have, and disobeying a junior FSB officer. The situation was solved in the end in a civilized manner. Even because of my ignorance and arrogance.
I was once stopped driving a Kamaz truck when I had no liscense, I had to pay no bribe, I got no ticket, nothing. The cop considered the situation (not enough drivers, not far to go) and let us go. He said caught me again he would throw the book at me.

My experiences here in America have not been as civil as with the Russian authorities. It seems to me that American authorities are of a breed incapable of making a decision on their own, it's by the book. It's about regimented control of the populace. I've exchanged very harsh words with
patrolmen in Seattle where it seems to me the prick in the Marvin the Martian helmet just wants to be right, and gets a hardon when he puts a badge on in the morning. You should've seen the look on his face, he probably never met a sheep that had the balls to yell right back at him and give him both fingers.

I don't believe 99% of what I hear. My personal experiences don't match them nor does what I have seen. Save the garbage RL unless you have irrefutable proof.

Russian Lad
21-02-2009, 19:35
My experiences here in America have not been as civil as with the Russian authorities.

How many months did you live in Russia, Scrat?:)
You preconception that the Russian road police are very nice people stems from your little experience. I drove the car for 4 years and I can tell you that paying 100 rubles bribe even for a 5km speed limit violation is not a nice thing. Let's swap our passports. I promise to swap them back in a year. It will make you a new person. Or continue dreaming about Smolensk and holding the touristy, matreshka and borsch view of Russia. Just remember one thing: if you are not welcome in your own country you will hardly be welcome elsewhere. Not as a tourist or as an expat with creamy salary, I mean.
About those acquitted: those were Chechens, and the Russian Kremlin-based mafia is laundering a lot of money there at present. There is no immediate need for gulag when you are doing that - printing the money and laundering it.

Judge
21-02-2009, 22:33
I don't believe 99% of what I hear. My personal experiences don't match them nor does what I have seen. Save the garbage RL unless you have irrefutable proof.


110% agree.
Maybe we have been lucky,but in my 5 years living here I don't have any horror stroies to tell.I've been to hospitals visited place outside of Moscow and so on,but all I have seen are good things and been treated well.
One short story for you all,the wife was driving in the night,she forgot to put on the lights,the so called dreaded police pulled her over.The wife was shitting bricks(thought she would pay a fine),the cop smiled and told her what's wrong and waved her on her way.
We always hear about all the shite that goes on in Russia,but never the good times.
It aint all that bad.

Russian Lad
21-02-2009, 22:47
So, on the whole, Judge, you agree with Scrat and the road police in Russia are very nice people? I am not saying things are so horrible that we are all gonna die tomorrow, but GIBDD lads would be a way down on my list of chummies.

Kvartiraokhotnik
21-02-2009, 23:04
So, on the whole, Judge, you agree with Scrat and the road police in Russia are very nice people? I am not saying things are so horrible that we are all gonna die tomorrow, but GIBDD lads would be a way down on my list of chummies.

I've been here five years also judge. I've noticed the road police are sometimes nice, sometimes not so nice. I've had one particularly unpleasant experience in my early days with the road police scamming me with a group of cabbies in the centre - though I must say, they were all rather civilised - they even let my brother play their hats and guns whilst i went to to find a cashpoint :) But the ''fine'' wasnt nice, especially as we had done nothing wrong.

Truth is, this experience aint worse than some i've had back in England with coppers. It all depends on the policeman. Some are nice, some arent, the world over it seems.

Judge
21-02-2009, 23:10
So, on the whole, Judge, you agree with Scrat and the road police in Russia are very nice people? I am not saying things are so horrible that we are all gonna die tomorrow, but GIBDD lads would be a way down on my list of chummies.


To be honest ,I have never run into them(I don't drive in Russia).Sure I have heard stories from russians,bla bla bla and more bla...but so far I have none to say excpet the one from my wife who met a nice one.
Hey, if you break the law expect to pay a fine..you can go along to the courts or pay your way out of it.At the end of the day,the road police need to feed their love ones..:10293::10293:

Judge
21-02-2009, 23:11
I've been here five years also judge. I've noticed the road police are sometimes nice, sometimes not so nice. I've had one particularly unpleasant experience in my early days with the road police scamming me with a group of cabbies in the centre - though I must say, they were all rather civilised - they even let my brother play their hats and guns whilst i went to to find a cashpoint :) But the ''fine'' wasnt nice, especially as we had done nothing wrong.

Truth is, this experience aint worse than some i've had back in England with coppers. It all depends on the policeman. Some are nice, some arent, the world over it seems.


To play with hats and guns you gotta pay the price,money well spent I'd say..:iagree:

Kvartiraokhotnik
22-02-2009, 09:24
To play with hats and guns you gotta pay the price,money well spent I'd say..:iagree:

He thought so also!!! He's had a great time here every time he's visited, and in spite of the fact that once he spent 3 hours in the cells of the local police station (I couldnt find my way back once i'd found the cashpoint - it was in the early days when I hadnt fully realised that every building in Moscow looks the same!) Its a great story to tell the grandkids anyhow.

Some of my Russian friends told me that i shouldnt have paid the fine. That I should have argued, and asked for a lawyer, or the embassy, or whatever. Personally, I'll always prefer to just give the police 1500 roubles and walk away, than sit in the cells all night and all next day, making a scene about nothing and getting nowhere. Like you said earlier, you'll pay the fine when you go to court anyhow!!!

One of my Russian friends recently paid 17000 to the gaishniki for going over the white line. Her friend did the same thing a week later and tried to offer 2000. He was refused, and when he went to court, he was ordered to pay more than 30000. Moral of the story - bribe the gaishnik. Its cheaper.

Scrat335
22-02-2009, 18:39
So, on the whole, Judge, you agree with Scrat and the road police in Russia are very nice people? I am not saying things are so horrible that we are all gonna die tomorrow, but GIBDD lads would be a way down on my list of chummies.

I won't disagree. I've been slighted by the authorities here in the US, there are good and bad cops everywhere. Maybe I just never ran across one yet in Russia.

I would sure like an option to bribe here too. I kind of see it as a privilage. :rules:

Do you think you were singled out for some reason?

Russian Lad
22-02-2009, 19:13
It is a coin with two sides, this privilege. I was in two rather bad accidents with cars that cost much higher than mine, it was not my fault in both cases and in both cases I suffered financially because the bas--rds had better bribing connections than I did.

Kvartiraokhotnik
22-02-2009, 20:41
It is a coin with two sides, this privilege. I was in two rather bad accidents with cars that cost much higher than mine, it was not my fault in both cases and in both cases I suffered financially because the bas--rds had better bribing connections than I did.

Bad luck mate. I'd feel the same as you do if i were in your shoes. Still, its only money eh??? I'm assuming you still have your health!

Russian Lad
22-02-2009, 21:13
Yeah, thanks, mate, I am live and kicking:).
It was not only the money, because it is rather humiliating - to know that you are in the right and to pay cash for the knowledge:). One of the reasons I rejoined the pedestrians class:) Besides, I was getting increasingly bored by the necessity to steer the wheel and strain my eyes in order to avoid all the oncoming road obstacles, including the infamous babushkas prone to jumping onto the road at the most inopportune moments:).