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quincy
09-01-2009, 21:43
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Did Bush cause the financial crisis? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7814704.stm)

DDT
09-01-2009, 22:30
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Did Bush cause the financial crisis? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7814704.stm)

How stupid an article! Personally I don't see how sub prime lending could have been the culprit here, but if so, if you look at the records in congress, the leading democrats like Barney Franks and others clearly and unequivocally shot down any bill to reform (including ones supported by Bush and McCain) Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae, just months before the collapse!!!! It's on video...democrats persisting that the FM's were "doing well"!!!!

Carbo
09-01-2009, 22:44
It wasn't so much Bush by himself, but the policies of the deranged, hateful, criminal kabal currently residing in the White House -- namely, the extreme, hysterical right wing of American conservatism -- definitely caused the crisis.

Bush represented that group and he should be held responsible.

DDT
10-01-2009, 01:14
I'm not going to give you much of an argument here as I believe that there is more to this story than meets the eye. BTW, you are probably aware that some people say that the 1929 collapse was engineered.

Russian Lad
10-01-2009, 01:49
I would disagree with you all here, guys. To make the long story incisively short, crises like the current one are an inherent trait of capitalism, in fact, it is its essence, like the flu in human nature. You cannot expect nothing less with the system of lendings and loans drawn up to be carried both by enterprises and individuals. One borrows some existing cash for the obligation to pay a virtual amount back, with an interest. Sooner or later a bubble is created that is bound to burst, just like any soap bubble. Then a new bubble is made, it is brightly glittering in the sun rays, only to repeat the bleaky fate of its inopportune predecessor. So, brace up for the crisis and be aware that it is not the last one. So, it all boils down to the fact that these crises occur due to the nature of things, not due to the actions of separate individuals, who, of course, may expedite the demise of the bubble through inaccurate actions.

Carbo
10-01-2009, 03:02
I'm not going to give you much of an argument here as I believe that there is more to this story than meets the eye. BTW, you are probably aware that some people say that the 1929 collapse was engineered.
No, I'm not. Please PM me with further information. If this is a libertarian conspiracy theory about central banks and Jews (namely, the Rosthchilds) manipulating the money supply, I'm not sure if I'm interested. For me, these ideas hold as much weight as the theory put forward in Batman Begins. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra's_al_Ghul

I'm open to persuasion, though, so PM me if you have something new.

RRM
10-01-2009, 08:15
I would disagree with you all here, guys. To make the long story incisively short, crises like the current one are an inherent trait of capitalism, in fact, it is its essence, like the flu in human nature. You cannot expect nothing less with the system of lendings and loans drawn up to be carried both by enterprises and individuals. One borrows some existing cash for the obligation to pay a virtual amount back, with an interest. Sooner or later a bubble is created that is bound to burst, just like any soap bubble. Then a new bubble is made, it is brightly glittering in the sun rays, only to repeat the bleaky fate of its inopportune predecessor. So, brace up for the crisis and be aware that it is not the last one. So, it all boils down to the fact that these crises occur due to the nature of things, not due to the actions of separate individuals, who, of course, may expedite the demise of the bubble through inaccurate actions.

Karl Marx had written this very well about a capitalistic society. A phase of growth is followed by a crisis which will lead to an even more growth followed by an even worse crisis. This cycle continues so if the theory holds true, we might see an even greater economic boom in the future....and eventually a worse crisis than the current one and so forth.

DDT
10-01-2009, 08:20
If this is a libertarian conspiracy theory about central banks (namely, the Rosthchilds) manipulating the money supply, I'm not sure if I'm interested.
Yeah, if I remember rightly it was something along those lines.

Carbo
10-01-2009, 12:30
Yeah, if I remember rightly it was something along those lines.
Well, listen, Mellon was quite open as to why he wanted to do that, and his position held sway at the Fed. But really, it wasn't the cause.

What always surprises me about libertarians, if I have this right, is their obsession with the gold standard. Nothing, I mean nothing, gives control of banking to rich bankers and takes it from governments and people like a gold standard. The GS is a guarantee of spells of deflation, what are far worse than inflation.

Gypsy
10-01-2009, 12:59
Well, listen, Mellon was quite open as to why he wanted to do that, and his position held sway at the Fed. But really, it wasn't the cause.

What always surprises me about libertarians, if I have this right, is their obsession with the gold standard. Nothing, I mean nothing, gives control of banking to rich bankers and takes it from governments and people like a gold standard. The GS is a guarantee of spells of deflation, what are far worse than inflation.
Indeed carbo. Long spells of deflation.

You also need to ask GS supporters which 90% of modern life they would prefer to be without -as the investment necessary was only possible after moving from the GS.

And Yes,the 1929 conspiracy theory is a very thinly disguised anti Jewish rant.

Kvartiraokhotnik
10-01-2009, 15:02
Saying that the Rothschilds manipulate the financial system is not anti-jewish. Its just a fact, and one which we all have to deal with in our own way.

What is it with all these 'jewish complexes'???

Carbo
10-01-2009, 17:16
Saying that the Rothschilds manipulate the financial system is not anti-jewish. Its just a fact, and one which we all have to deal with in our own way.
Whatever.

Scrat335
10-01-2009, 18:40
I would disagree with you all here, guys. To make the long story incisively short, crises like the current one are an inherent trait of capitalism, in fact, it is its essence, like the flu in human nature. You cannot expect nothing less with the system of lendings and loans drawn up to be carried both by enterprises and individuals. One borrows some existing cash for the obligation to pay a virtual amount back, with an interest. Sooner or later a bubble is created that is bound to burst, just like any soap bubble. Then a new bubble is made, it is brightly glittering in the sun rays, only to repeat the bleaky fate of its inopportune predecessor. So, brace up for the crisis and be aware that it is not the last one. So, it all boils down to the fact that these crises occur due to the nature of things, not due to the actions of separate individuals, who, of course, may expedite the demise of the bubble through inaccurate actions.

I can live with this in referring to the mechanics of it. The only thing I would add is the factors of human greed and lax regulations. Unfettered capitalism does not work well.

quincy
10-01-2009, 18:57
GW Bush quote

"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing about him is that I read three -- three or four books about him last year. Isn't that interesting?" while showing German newspaper reporter Kai Diekmann the Oval Office, Washington, D.C., May 5, 2006