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Gypsy
08-12-2008, 10:56
I have been taken to task by a friend on the site for bullying - I do not think I was but if it appeared that way to a friend then, fair enough. So the following is I hope a well intentioned route out of the current slanging matches.

Can I make a couple of observations and from those a suggestion or two.

First: Could the Mods close the two rather contentious threads that are shedding more heat than light on Mumbai and 911?

This is an open message to Flathunter and I hope he and others will see it as the constructive criticism it is intended to be.

People get very, very angry at your style. You always fail to answer questions, and that makes people angry.

To have a civilised debate you need to respond to what the other person has said, not try and deflect it by answering what you assume the premise was - which you do about 90% of the time. You do it all the time with me, and get the premise wrong all the time.

From your re-appearance on the site you have accused me of being any number of things - most of which are contradictory.

The other 10% of the time you just resort to insult.

And it generates a response - certainly I respond in kind and insult you.

It is incredibly frustrating to have someone completely ignore your question answer something quite different and then try and claim that they have responded. As an example: I stated that the 911 outrage was planned by Al Quaeda. And asked for any evidence that it was not. Your response was to accuse me of believing that Osama Bin Laden was hiding in a cave in Afghanistan.

The three problems with that are:

1)Where he might be is hardly relevant, and

2)I have stated many times on this site that I believe Bin Laden to be in a hotel room in Saudi Arabia where he has always been. He could not survive without constant medical care for one thing. So your response was just dishonest, and

3)You simply did not answer the question

Now I do not want or need a response to the specifics above, and i will not argue them - it is a small sample of what you do, you can take it as friendly advice or not; up to you: I post them only as an example to show you why you drive so many people to anger.

So, my suggestion

Close the existing threads

Admins open a special folder for 911 Conspiracy Theories and ban any discussion of them outside of that folder.

When challenged in a debate, FH - answer the question.

And Links to a web-site are not facts. By all means reference where you got the information, but if you are unable to explain in your own words what you mean then you clearly do not understand it.

Finally - FH you are very voluble in posting anything anti American - it is the only consistent thread running through your posts - can i suggest you start a thread and tell us what you do believe in?

Anyone can post knee-jerk "anti" reactions, do you have anything at all positive to say?

elis
08-12-2008, 18:10
My two cents . . . if I may.

Since you've addressed the topic openly, I will let you know that I agree with your friend. You've been a bit bully-ish. Nor are you alone, so don't fee too bad!!

Although you've addressed this post to FH who, I'm assuming is Kvartiraokhotnik, he's not the only one who doesn't always "answer the question". We are all guilty of that. People do get stuck on tangents.

In the threads that you mention, it seems to me, that often people read only want they want to read (be it good or bad) and respond to that. Sometimes people answer things . . . but not to the liking of the questioner. And then they are accused of not answering the question.

Yes, Kvartiraokhotnik / FH can be abrasive. So can many others.

I get the feeling sometimes, that there's a lot more to your (and I mean that in the second person plural, not just you Gypsy) disagreements with FH than simply what is being discussed in the threads.

There's a lot of button-pushing and name calling that happens on both sides. Sometimes it can be funny. But other times it crosses the line and it is like watches bullies on a playground. (It gets tedious and no one else wants to play.)

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Do I agree with the 9/11 conspiracy stuff? No. Nevertheless, I did look over that website about the 9/11 "truthers" (I sooo agree with whoever posted about that word being a grammatical abhorrence) and was surprised at some of the information I read there. Maybe it will make me think more about the "official story."

I get the feeling that every time someone sees a post by someone they are not particularly fond of, they read it with the intent to find something wrong with it. And respond accordingly, i.e. nastily.

If we all walk into a discussion with preconceived notions, or at least with the idea that we will never agree with or consider any one thing that the other person has to say, the discussion is pretty sure to dissolve into chaos quickly.

I totally agree with you about shutting down the two threads. They've run their course.

A special folder for 911 Conspiracy Theories may be a good idea. However, the way I see it, 9/11 is used in threads just like the "are too" are not" arguments in a school playground. By that I mean it's everyone's last resort for trying to prove other people wrong. (Something that makes no sense to me.) Don't ask the mods to ban 9/11 discussions, just ask people to try and reasonable.

It also might be a good idea to stop delving into recent history and bringing up items that have no relevance. Yes, I'm referring to the girl under the bridge thing. Enough already! (Although I still want to bring up my favorite Sal-isms whenever I want to. :) )

We're all (I believe) reasonable intelligent adults in this discussions. We need to think before we post: Is what I’m posting just trying to egg somebody on, or is it actually a contribution to the conversation. (Carbo, Wodin--among others--are wonderful examples of thoughtful posters who remain above the fray.)

I wish I'd been able to get my point across a bit better and with a little more style. But I think yall get the message.

In closing, I just want to say I really enjoy these (i.e. current affairs, political, etc. etc. ) threads--before they digress into the miasma. There are a lot of people on this forum who are extremely knowledgeable, and whether I agree with what side of the political spectrum they're from doesn't matter. There's a lot we can learn from eachother.

Okay. Maybe that was about 28 cents. If anyone wants change back, let me know. :)

MissAnnElk
08-12-2008, 18:19
I closed the Mumbai thread. But not sure what the other contentious thread was . . . the one on Obama and other conspiracies? Lemme know.

Gypsy
08-12-2008, 18:24
I closed the Mumbai thread. But not sure what the other contentious thread was . . . the one on Obama and other conspiracies? Lemme know.
Yes

MissAnnElk
08-12-2008, 18:28
Okay. I closed it. I will ask the Admin gurus about making a new folder.

MissAnnElk
08-12-2008, 18:39
On the topic of bullying . . .

I cannot tell you (y'all) the number of times I have told Party A, "You really would like Party B if you would just lay down your arms and go have a beer together."

Having been lucky enough to meet a few of you (y'all) in person, I can say that those I have met are good eggs. Something happens to people when they sit down at the keyboard and they take offense at the slightest provocation. My favorite example (and I'm too lazy to hunt for it) involved a parenting forum where someone asked a question about teething or toilet training or something equally innocuous and the response was "F**K YOU, you nasty, controlling C**T!" I am not exaggerating the venom, but I'm sure the real thing was funnier. A PARENTING forum.

I know it is stressful living abroad and we all need somewhere to vent and blow off steam harmlessly. But wouldn't we be better served drinking to excess and having casual sex? I mean, you (y'all) are all we've got.

elis
08-12-2008, 18:44
I cannot tell you (y'all)

Was your whole post just meant to needle me and point out that I mispelled "y'all" in my post???? YOU B****!!!!!!

:)

(See boys, that's what it looks like sometimes.)

MissAnnElk
08-12-2008, 18:45
Was your whole post just meant to needle me and point out that I mispelled "y'all" in my post???? YOU B****!!!!!!

Liar!

Gypsy
08-12-2008, 18:48
Was your whole post just meant to needle me and point out that I mispelled "y'all" in my post???? YOU B****!!!!!!

:)

(See boys, that's what it looks like sometimes.)
I know. Hence the thread.

MissAnnElk
08-12-2008, 18:52
Okay, here's the original:

I have already confessed to my fascination with messageboards populated by people who are very much unlike me. I love to soak up the insanity at mothering.com and the taxidermy forums, and now I am all about the Urbanbaby "community." It's fantastic. It is like watching a time-lapse photography slide show of decomposing meat. It is status- and money- and Bugaboo-stroller-obsessed, plus it has this weird nested format where everyone posts in the subject line, mostly all in lowercase, and insults her fellow posters freely. I don't know about you, but there is something laugh-out-loud awesome when the first reply to "13.5 mo dd skipped her nap today, what do I do?" is "you are a stupid c**twhore."

Makes me laugh every time I read it. Except when I read this stuff on expat.

Wodin
08-12-2008, 18:55
and go have a beer together."

Wish I could....:11158:...gets kinda lonely out here in the sticks sometimes :)


A PARENTING forum.

Hmmmm...I always thought that Parenting Forums are even more rough and tough than Politics...I mean..in politics we bash each other around on abstract concepts...in a Parenting Folder the subject of discussion would be the little darlings...and most posters would be their mummies...and we all know how violent and ruthless mummies can get when it's something that impacts their kids...

That's why I always keep away from teh Parenting Folders...I'm simply far too delicate for them ;):10168:

Kvartiraokhotnik
08-12-2008, 19:12
I have been taken to task by a friend on the site for bullying - I do not think I was but if it appeared that way to a friend then, fair enough. So the following is I hope a well intentioned route out of the current slanging matches.

Can I make a couple of observations and from those a suggestion or two.

First: Could the Mods close the two rather contentious threads that are shedding more heat than light on Mumbai and 911?

This is an open message to Flathunter and I hope he and others will see it as the constructive criticism it is intended to be.

People get very, very angry at your style. You always fail to answer questions, and that makes people angry.

To have a civilised debate you need to respond to what the other person has said, not try and deflect it by answering what you assume the premise was - which you do about 90% of the time. You do it all the time with me, and get the premise wrong all the time.

From your re-appearance on the site you have accused me of being any number of things - most of which are contradictory.

The other 10% of the time you just resort to insult.

And it generates a response - certainly I respond in kind and insult you.

It is incredibly frustrating to have someone completely ignore your question answer something quite different and then try and claim that they have responded. As an example: I stated that the 911 outrage was planned by Al Quaeda. And asked for any evidence that it was not. Your response was to accuse me of believing that Osama Bin Laden was hiding in a cave in Afghanistan.

The three problems with that are:

1)Where he might be is hardly relevant, and

2)I have stated many times on this site that I believe Bin Laden to be in a hotel room in Saudi Arabia where he has always been. He could not survive without constant medical care for one thing. So your response was just dishonest, and

3)You simply did not answer the question

Now I do not want or need a response to the specifics above, and i will not argue them - it is a small sample of what you do, you can take it as friendly advice or not; up to you: I post them only as an example to show you why you drive so many people to anger.

So, my suggestion

Close the existing threads

Admins open a special folder for 911 Conspiracy Theories and ban any discussion of them outside of that folder.

When challenged in a debate, FH - answer the question.

And Links to a web-site are not facts. By all means reference where you got the information, but if you are unable to explain in your own words what you mean then you clearly do not understand it.

Finally - FH you are very voluble in posting anything anti American - it is the only consistent thread running through your posts - can i suggest you start a thread and tell us what you do believe in?

Anyone can post knee-jerk "anti" reactions, do you have anything at all positive to say?

I thought I answered all your questions. The last one I recall was ''If there were no Saudi hijackers,''....To which I replied...I dont know what their nationality was. But I dont believe they were the ones on the official list of hijackers cos several of those hijackers are still alive. I have never claimed the hijackers were this nationality or that. If I have forgotten, or not read, any other questions, please feel free to post them below. But be sure to answer my questions also.


A debate is quid pro quo....
So....
My question

If i'm so ''anti American'', explain why most of the quotes and videos I post are Americans. And I am quoting them because I believe them to be patriots.
For example:

Ron Paul
Peter Schiff
Jim Rogers
Aaron Russo
Jesse Ventura
John Schroeder (most recently)
Ray Mcgovern.
Thomas Edison


N:B I dont quote these Americans to attack them...on the contrary, to support them in their patriotic fight against fascism.

The only Americans I attack are banking families that are responsible, in my humble opinion, for many attrocities the world over. Rockefeller being a good example. But I do also attack the European families (Rothschild, Warburg) for the same reason.

I am not anti-American. I am anti-present day banking system. Its a simple racket. One which Edison summed up very well in my most recent quote. Just in case youve forgotten, ill remind you.

People who will not turn a shovel full of dirt on the project (Muscle Shoals Dam) nor contribute a pound of material, will collect more money from the United States than will the People who supply all the material and do all the work. This is the terrible thing about interest.
If the Nation can issue a dollar bond it can issue a dollar bill. The element that makes the bond good makes the bill good also. The difference between the bond and the bill is that the bond lets the money broker collect twice the amount of the bond and an additional 20%. Whereas the currency, the honest sort provided by the Constitution pays nobody but those who contribute in some useful way. It is absurd to say our Country can issue bonds and cannot issue currency. Both are promises to pay, but one fattens the usurer and the other helps the People.

So, an answer as to How FH could be anti-American, in light of all his videos, quotes, and general admiration for Americans (i believe i even wrote a post about it once).

Thanks in advance for your attention and reply to this question.
Dont be too shy to ask a question in response.

Kvartiraokhotnik
08-12-2008, 19:26
I am still waiting for the chess, by the way!

Perhaps it would be a good way to forget our differences and make up?

So....Sidney, who I'd particularly like to play after his Wiki comment, or yaself Gypsy...anyone fancy a game? :))))))))))))))))))))

If these guys ''are washing their hair'' perhaps judge would fancy a tickle?

Wodin
08-12-2008, 19:27
*will not answer...must not answer....am dying to answer...that edison quote rankles so much...i'll end up getting a stomach ulcer if i carry on like this...must not answ.....*

Kvartiraokhotnik
08-12-2008, 19:39
*will not answer...must not answer....am dying to answer...that edison quote rankles so much...i'll end up getting a stomach ulcer if i carry on like this...must not answ.....*

answer what? :question:

You can answer me in private if you want. Or if you have a question, post it on here. I'll answer.

ezik
09-12-2008, 20:47
So, my suggestion

Close the existing threads

Admins open a special folder for 911 Conspiracy Theories and ban any discussion of them outside of that folder.


There won't be a folder especially dedicated to 911 and conspiracy theories behind it. Don't see a case for it at all on a forum like this (mainly about living in Russia).