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Kvartiraokhotnik
31-10-2008, 11:01
The Chinese mainstream media have worked out what Biden was talking about, when he mentioned the certainty of Obama being ''tested'' early in his presidency.

Looks like the military industrial complex is asking for another war - a big one, to sort out the economy. The likely targets being Iran, Russia or China (even Japan is considered possible as they hold the greatest ammount of US debt). An interesting read anyhow.

Translated version of http://news.sohu.com/20081030/n260330741.shtml (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.sohu.com%2F20081030%2Fn260330741.shtml&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en)

DDT
31-10-2008, 11:36
Here's the Alex Jones version.
Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com/?p=5654)

Carbo
31-10-2008, 11:46
What a load of tripe.

When was the last time a major war helped the markets? It does the opposite.

Len Ganley Stance
31-10-2008, 12:13
What a load of tripe.

When was the last time a major war helped the markets? It does the opposite.

I would think that entry into WW2 didn't exactly harm the US Economy.............

Kvartiraokhotnik
31-10-2008, 13:02
I would think that entry into WW2 didn't exactly harm the US Economy.............

Gotta hand it to you Len - You find the most interesting tables of data. Cheers!

Len Ganley Stance
31-10-2008, 13:16
Gotta hand it to you Len - You find the most interesting tables of data. Cheers!

All of the numbers I currently have to crunch are slowly doing my head in. So to lighten the mood slightly and hijack the thread for a second. Here's a couple of my all time favourite charts. Apologies for the temporary hijack.

AstroNoodle
02-11-2008, 07:55
I would think that entry into WW2 didn't exactly harm the US Economy.............

That's because at the end everyone owed the US and because the US already had factories ready to start up but no work (due to the Great Depression). That is what the Rand theorists et. al. fail to see and what part of their doctrine deludes them -- after all, they cannot see that free-trade has DESTROYED the very element that made the post-WWII American economy possible -- industry.

Now the US owes everyone and has shipped its industry away. WWIII will not be the end of the US, but instead it will be the end of the US as we have either hoped for or previously known it. Instead, whatever IT is will be some sort of central Lucifer demon with an oppressed, immobilized, and degraded population hoping against hope for SOME person, a MAN, to come save the day and make it so a days work buys more than a quart of barley.

By then all our roads in the US should belong to Spain and have tolls on them, we can have "inland ports" (what a joke), and be united with Canada and Mexico courtesy of our traitors in the US Senate and the North American Union.

fenrir
02-11-2008, 09:33
I would think that entry into WW2 didn't exactly harm the US Economy.............

The problem with this chart is that the US didn't enter the war until 1941. We were making money off of someone else's war before 7 December 1941.

Surfsup37
02-11-2008, 14:10
See if I have this correct

This document is an english translation from the Chinnese media of a French media Report on a American think tank report of an American Department of Defense plan.


How many degrees of separation is that? :10475:

What it must be true then!

Actually, I am still waiting for the upcoming "American Attack" during the Russian Elections reported to Russian Duma members by Senior Security personnel of the Russian Security Forces. :11158:

Carry on! :rasta:

fenrir
02-11-2008, 14:39
See if I have this correct

This document is an english translation from the Chinnese media of a French media Report on a American think tank report of an American Department of Defense plan.


How many degrees of separation is that? :10475:

What it must be true then!

Actually, I am still waiting for the upcoming "American Attack" during the Russian Elections reported to Russian Duma members by Senior Security personnel of the Russian Security Forces. :11158:

Carry on! :rasta:

What about the 'Iranians forced down an American plane' BS from a few weeks ago or the 'How great the Russian economy is doing compared to America's' gloating before the RTS crashed 77% and Russia began using large amounts of its reserves to prop the ruble up and save certain banks and industries from collapse? I still remember how certain posters were predicting the death of the dollar and saying how great and strong the ruble was. Well, it doesn't look so great now.

Adamodeus
02-11-2008, 17:33
What about the 'Iranians forced down an American plane' BS from a few weeks ago or the 'How great the Russian economy is doing compared to America's' gloating before the RTS crashed 77% and Russia began using large amounts of its reserves to prop the ruble up and save certain banks and industries from collapse? I still remember how certain posters were predicting the death of the dollar and saying how great and strong the ruble was. Well, it doesn't look so great now.
Well, let's see, fenrir. Russia still has the lowest foreign debt in Europe. It still has the 4th largest foreign exchange reserves in the world that it is successfully using "to prop the ruble up and save certain banks and industries from collapse". It still has a trade surplus. The ruble:dollar exchange rate is pretty much the same today as it was a year ago. Event thought they had to reduce the GDP expectation for the year, it's still going to be around 7% growth, as opposed to the just released US GDP decline of 0.3% and Bloomberg said " The U.S. economy suffered its biggest decline since 2001 in the third quarter, ushering in what may be the worst recession in a quarter-century".

So, yeah, you're wrong, it still looks pretty freakin' great now compared to a hell of a lot of countries, especially the US. So now what? You're going to attempt to tell me about people getting fired in Russia and some banks of the verge of closure? I can still point right back to the US and Europe where it's ten times worse. Poop.

fenrir
02-11-2008, 18:47
Well, let's see, fenrir. Russia still has the lowest foreign debt in Europe. It still has the 4th largest foreign exchange reserves in the world that it is successfully using "to prop the ruble up and save certain banks and industries from collapse". It still has a trade surplus. The ruble:dollar exchange rate is pretty much the same today as it was a year ago. Event thought they had to reduce the GDP expectation for the year, it's still going to be around 7% growth, as opposed to the just released US GDP decline of 0.3% and Bloomberg said " The U.S. economy suffered its biggest decline since 2001 in the third quarter, ushering in what may be the worst recession in a quarter-century".

So, yeah, you're wrong, it still looks pretty freakin' great now compared to a hell of a lot of countries, especially the US. So now what? You're going to attempt to tell me about people getting fired in Russia and some banks of the verge of closure? I can still point right back to the US and Europe where it's ten times worse. Poop.

Spin, spin, spin. What's next? That the high inflation is actually a good thing? That the sky-high prices for real estate are not only sustainable but good for the average person and the economy?

Your percentages for growth are deceptive because the economies are not anywhere near the same size (Russia is not even 1/10 of the US in nominal GDP terms). The exchange rate went from 23 to 27 in a very short time and only intervention to the tune of about a billion dollars a day is keeping the ruble from sliding worse. There is even talk about a devaluation of the ruble. Don't tell me you haven't heard anything about that.

What else? Oh, yeah. There is the collapse of oil and metal prices, and it doesn't look like they are going up anytime soon (bar an attack on Iran). By the way, that is good for Europe and the US. Gas prices here are down almost 20% from the summer and are expected to fall more.

Btw, I am not hoping the Russian economy gets in trouble, but facts are facts. Things aren't so rosy there anymore. Hopefully, things will change in 2009, not just for Russia but for everyone.

Adamodeus
02-11-2008, 20:37
Spin, spin, spin. What's next? That the high inflation is actually a good thing?
Isn't that what Dubya and his boys have been telling us all along? That a weak dollar is going to help the US economy blah-blah-blah...

Your percentages for growth are deceptive because the economies are not anywhere near the same size (Russia is not even 1/10 of the US in nominal GDP terms). The exchange rate went from 23 to 27 in a very short time and only intervention to the tune of about a billion dollars a day is keeping the ruble from sliding worse. There is even talk about a devaluation of the ruble. Don't tell me you haven't heard anything about that.
Right. But it is the size of the US economy that makes it so much more difficult to pull out of the swamp it's in. The US$700 billion rescue package is trying to resurrect a US$3 trillion "soap bubble". Percentage-wise the US$700 billion the US has poured into the economy is not only inadequate, but is also much less than the than US$100 billion the Russians have poured into theirs. It's simply easier to keep the Russian economy afloat in this crisis.

What else? Oh, yeah. There is the collapse of oil and metal prices, and it doesn't look like they are going up anytime soon (bar an attack on Iran). By the way, that is good for Europe and the US. Gas prices here are down almost 20% from the summer and are expected to fall more.
As far as oil is concerned, never mind Russia. Do you think OPEC is going to get off the US$140 per barrel "addiction" without a fight? I'm quite sure OPEC will have "something to say" about that price drop. And as for natural gas, well read up and tell me again if you expect the prices "to fall more":

Russia, Iran and Qatar announce cartel that will control 60% of world's gas supplies | Business | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/22/gas-russia-gazprom-iran-qatar)

Btw, I am not hoping the Russian economy gets in trouble, but facts are facts. Things aren't so rosy there anymore. Hopefully, things will change in 2009, not just for Russia but for everyone.
For the record, I think everyone (myself included) is hoping things will improve in the US. Only the dumbest of nationalists could hope for US demise in this situation.

fenrir
02-11-2008, 21:31
Isn't that what Dubya and his boys have been telling us all along? That a weak dollar is going to help the US economy blah-blah-blah...

Right. But it is the size of the US economy that makes it so much more difficult to pull out of the swamp it's in. The US$700 billion rescue package is trying to resurrect a US$3 trillion "soap bubble". Percentage-wise the US$700 billion the US has poured into the economy is not only inadequate, but is also much less than the than US$100 billion the Russians have poured into theirs. It's simply easier to keep the Russian economy afloat in this crisis.

As far as oil is concerned, never mind Russia. Do you think OPEC is going to get off the US$140 per barrel "addiction" without a fight? I'm quite sure OPEC will have "something to say" about that price drop. And as for natural gas, well read up and tell me again if you expect the prices "to fall more":

Russia, Iran and Qatar announce cartel that will control 60% of world's gas supplies | Business | The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/oct/22/gas-russia-gazprom-iran-qatar)

For the record, I think everyone (myself included) is hoping things will improve in the US. Only the dumbest of nationalists could hope for US demise in this situation.

I think Russia should let the ruble weaken to make its own companies more competitive.

Natural gas prices are going DOWN for the EU, at least according to RIA Novosti.

RIA Novosti - Opinion & analysis - What the Russian papers say (http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20081101/118092477.html)

I agree that OPEC will try to keep the price high but I don't think they will achieve it. The present economic situation in the world will lead to a lot of cheating with export quotas, plus Saudi Arabia will probably keep things from getting too far out of hand.

Gypsy
03-11-2008, 01:52
What a load of tripe.

When was the last time a major war helped the markets? It does the opposite.
WW2 and Vietnam spring to mind. US made a profit on Gulf War 1 too.

However anything they do now will be a huge loss maker for any number of very obvious reasons, which add up to -

a) the factors which made the above profitable are not there now. Or,
b) they'd lose.

The article is a load of crap, but typical of the moron flathunter..