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lyndsay
27-07-2004, 09:53
a friend has to make a decisision. My thoughts are that expatriates often face such decisions in Russia.

1. new job - 6k a month and flat, but about 6 hrs from Moscow
2. a job 3k month in Moscow

The second offers work permit etc where as the first offers bonuses and $$$'s.

My advice was to just go home and stop pissing around in this toilet of a country as every job is a dead end anyway.. he's forced to be illegal by the laws.. why bother?!

He stays for that age old reason and classic problem .. a girl! Now he could get a girl somewhere else but apparently this example is special, extraordinary... etc.. I'm sure that will change once he's 6 hrs from Moscow, alone, and nobody to play tiddly winks with..huh..!?

Anyway, if you can throw some arguments - please do as he's doing my head in




:eek:

Random
27-07-2004, 10:01
6 hours in which direction ...East / West / North / South ?????

Surok
27-07-2004, 10:02
Where's the girl? Six hours from Moscow, or in Moscow?

And is she high-maintenance? Will he need the extra $$$?

moscowmail
27-07-2004, 10:04
Well it is a simple solution, life is more impotant, yes we need money to live, but without love and a life, what is the point

Random
27-07-2004, 10:05
Originally posted by moscowmail
Well it is a simple solution, life is more impotant, yes we need money to live, but without love and a life, what is the point

Wow thats deep for this time in the morning !!!

moscowmail
27-07-2004, 10:09
I know, I am sorry

kniga
27-07-2004, 10:20
If the lady in question is in Moscow, take the three month gig and look for something else in the meantime. Six hours from Moscow is going to be a lot rougher place to live than Moscow, and three months should either strengthen the relationship with the lady or see it come unglued. Three months should buy valuable time on both fronts.

moscowmail
27-07-2004, 10:22
Good advice Kniga

lyndsay
27-07-2004, 10:26
but that's really risky isn't it?

I'm actually worried about his state of mind. He used to be a player but he's all loved up.

Ok, it's nice... it's lovely... another one bites the dust.

But if he took the $$$'s he would save up quicker... and the Nischny job would help him see if he is in love or not - challenge him. But as he said, he lost his way a bit - got caught up in being somebody he wasn't.... slept with a blur of women... and woke up every morning with an inconsolable emptiness.

I actually think he's terrified of commitment. I know he was heaviliy let down a few years ago, but this seems to have filtered into his work ethic too - like he doesn't really care enough about himself to actually care about what he does anymore...

I think he should stay in Moscow because if he goes of to a village he'll just get nailed again by loneliness and start playing tiddliwinks with the locals..

But that money is tempting, ain't it!

kniga
27-07-2004, 10:28
If he has fallen into the Tender Trap, he'll have to extricate himself by himself, as advice will fall upon deaf ears...

lyndsay
27-07-2004, 10:44
what is a 'tender trap'?

Sorry, bit slow this morning... Mxhito Monday at Molly's still slurring around my brain cell.

Ignia
27-07-2004, 10:58
he has fallen into the Tender Trap=he has fallen in love

Am I right in my guess?

lyndsay
27-07-2004, 11:00
Wake up!

DO you mean a 'tender' as in how much is the job? Or 'tender' as in Elvis Presley lome me tender etc..

Hu... what?

polly
27-07-2004, 11:04
i'd stay at the 3k in mockba. it's more than i'm dredging up now. =P

stefania2003
27-07-2004, 11:26
I agree with both Lyndsay and Len (who I didn't realise was capable of such wise profundity but I so am in tune with him here!) and got out of Moscow for the reasons Len states but I don't regret the years I spent there as I said in an earlier post as I got excellent teaching experience and marvellous medical treatment. You really sometimes do reach a crossroads though where you have to balance the minuses against the pluses. 'Love' can be fleeting unless it's based on something solid and the people have known each other for a while and as I say, it should be based on reality and not some romantic dream. It that is all he's staying for then I feel it's a mistake.

lyndsay
27-07-2004, 11:30
he's on the edge of a gaping abyss - not quite a crossroad..

and maybe the whole love thing is just an excuse for avoiding the fact that he's got to change something.. passes the responsibility onto the relationship.

Thanks for input..

I doubt he'll listen anyway.

trebor
27-07-2004, 11:33
There is life outside Moscow you know!
I've worked here in Vlad. for 18 months now and enjoy it.
The pace of life is a little slower and i admit at times i do miss the smoke but people are friendlier, i have more Russian friends and my Russian has improved no end.
Also I get paid double what i did before.
It could be a little tough if he is a village though. One other point to consider, it can be difficult to get a job back in Moscow once you have left for the sticks because some employers don't understand why you left in the first place.

lyndsay
27-07-2004, 11:38
it's a huge Godless factory... his Russian is average... I just think he could feel V.Lonely as he does enjoy the 'smoke' as you say.

yankee@moscow
27-07-2004, 16:11
Sounds like your friend needs to be a big boy and make his own decisions in life. These are serious considerations! I would do my own investigation, write out my personal pros and cons and goals in life and figure out what I should do for myelf. No one can make those types of decisions for anyone else.

kniga
27-07-2004, 16:20
The Tender Trap = To Fall In Love.

gadfly
27-07-2004, 16:53
Nizhny at 6k a month!? He'd be a God, and it isn't as if she can't visit him on the weekends. It's not as if there's an ocean or Schengen between them. I say go for it, unless he's going to moan about not being able to have tobasco or Romaine lettuce. I haven't bothered to find any weed to smoke since I got here last year, although I have shared a joint the 3-4 times it has found me.

am4rw
27-07-2004, 18:35
If you're talking about Nizhny Novgorod, it's not a village. Lovely city, and lots to do. No, it's not Moskva, but in many ways I like it better. There is something of an expat community there.

xt-tsi
28-07-2004, 18:57
I'd take the job 6 hours away from Moscow if they can arrange the work permit.

koba65
28-07-2004, 21:23
Originally posted by lyndsay
I think he should stay in Moscow because if he goes of to a village he'll just get nailed again by loneliness and start playing tiddliwinks with the locals..



I travel all over the former Soviet Union and some of the nicest girls you meet are those "locals" - they also tend not to be as spoiled as the big city girls (apologies to any Moskvichki here - not meant as a slam on anyone in particular).... He might actually enjoy himself more out in provinces.

Also, does he speak Russian? If not, he might want to stay in Moscow...

Maine Surfer
29-07-2004, 10:43
6k sounds to me like the job. Agree, she or he can visit. Job permit, good money, fewer expenses. Hey, can the girl move with him?
Also agree with Yankee, the boy's gotta make his own choice, any advises are useless.

Col. Brokov
30-07-2004, 17:18
Right you guys, check this out. I say TAKE THE JOB WITH THE MONEY!!!!! Afterall, money is very useful. With it, you can buy all sorts of things like food, cigarettes, vodka, love, houses, cool cars, ect... So pack up the girl and go for the gold! Or is it Green? Wait, we're in russia. I guesss it would be the blue since we are in Russia, thinking 1000 rouble notes there, but wait. What if there is a larger note than 1,000? What colour would that be?

lyndsay
02-08-2004, 11:31
for advice

He's gone with the Moscow job - for a mix of reasons really...

Ultimately, money alone is not his motivation for working and after about three terrible experiences with employers here, I think it's better the devil y'know in a place where friends are close when dealing with Russian companies.

I think he made the right choice..

bagehot
02-08-2004, 14:28
Well, good for him then - I know what you mean about employers here - 6k a month isn't as great when they don't actually pay.

joseph58
02-08-2004, 16:08
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Braders
02-08-2004, 18:57
Lyndsay i reckon your friend has made the right choice.

I was offered positions in Kiev, St Petersburg and some god forsaken hole on the Russian/China border, the latter would have been rife with contraband crossing the border thus creating revenue for the profession i work in, but apart from serious consideration to Pete's i wasn't going anywhere.

Her indoors wanted to remain in her job in Moscow and that alone was a major factor in me not going. Regardless of the untold amounts i was being offered.

Other factors are job security outside of Moscow, i have seen so many friends leave for smaller towns on larger salaries, work 3-6 months and then they lose their job for no legitmate reason other than you've served your purpose and/or you didn't meet the projected targets which of course were made up 5 minutes before said person walked into the office, some not getting their full whack after all this as well. I would rather stay in Moscow which has at least has a level of 'job security'

It suits some who want a quieter life and want to save money, but me being away from her indoors would probably not be good for me financially and i reckon my health might deteriorate a tad ;)

miciolo
03-08-2004, 22:50
$6k a month?! $3k a month?!!! Bloody h*ll! You cannot be serious - why would an expat be paid so little in Moscow? What kind of work is your friend doing?

I am just curious what is considered to be a decent expat salary in Moscow these days?

PS: Dump the girl and go back home :)

Blaked
04-08-2004, 01:47
Unlike New York, you don't have to pay 2,000 a month here to get an apartment next to some HUD project with neighbors who have had their rent frozen at less than 600 since the 70's, or pay 8 bucks for cigarettes. I knew an escort in New York once ('exotic massage?') that DIDN't HAVE SEX - she actually refused to on principal. In stateside internet jargon, such a person is known as a ROB - Rip Off Bitch.

The United States has lost most of its cities to urban blight, meaning that if you want anything resembling civilized middle-upper class urban life you're stuck with cities like NYC, San Fran, Portland, and Chicago. Besides that, the fact is that Americans are utterly constrained in terms of their public opinions - they have to pretend to be nice to everybody and wear a big fake smile all the time like a customer service representative. All of this so that they can secure a loan with no points for a brick-faced, vinyl sided tomb in a covenanted subdivision on some windy road with a cul-de-sac in a town where all of the commercial activity takes place in a group of strip malls clustered around a highway overpass.

Oh and if you do manage to live in New York and can't live in Manhattan (home to a mere 1.5 million out of a regional population of 15 mil. plus) you are considered a Bridge and Tunnel loser unless you live in some 'approved' Outer Boro neighborhood like Williamsburg, Cobble Hill, or Park Slope.

Either 3k or 6k here is a godsend. If 6k after taxes doesn't seem like a lot of money to you (= about 100k) you either own your own business or are an upper middle class professional - in which case I'm sure you have no use for any of the excitement that a city like Moscow can offer because you're too busy thinking about litigation or derivatives analysis.

lyndsay
04-08-2004, 09:23
sounds like London.... UK all over again

blimey.. I'm empathising with an American....

Groovey... .

:D

Braders
04-08-2004, 15:54
Originally posted by miciolo
$6k a month?! $3k a month?!!! Bloody h*ll! You cannot be serious - why would an expat be paid so little in Moscow? What kind of work is your friend doing?

There are no small salaries over here for expats, i would say this person is employed as a part-time bartender, that's around the 6k bracket.

lyndsay
04-08-2004, 16:04
gis a job!?

chrisj_m
04-08-2004, 16:06
well I'm just a grad - but am faced with either $6k a month back home, or $500 a month in moscow, to be honest - I'd take the $500 a month as am also in the tender trap.

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 10:58
a recent grad - you are far too young for all this LOVE stuf..

That bleedin word is a heavy load to carry, especially if it isn't reciprocated... and if it is reciprocated it just gets heavier and heavier till one day your belly bloats, back gives out, and you're surrounded by little 'gimee loves called Dennis and Sandra who have your eyes demanding you, parent bastard, just live through me now - c'mon you have no life cuz we're your life now.. .. ' just draining you dry... and making you a better, more responsible, person.... fuller human being... giving you a purpose in life.. a reason to be... you lucky, lucky, thing... why? Cuz we lova ya?!!

Go and have some deep, meaningful, sex, break at least 5 hearts to gain some self worth.... and aim for, by the age of 48, to be able to look back over the last three years on the realization that accumulatively the last three girl friends don't add up to your whole respective age.....

Live a little....





;)

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 11:19
world-weary with experience that really sounds, lyndsay:)

anyway ... a good piece of advice

though Oscar Wilde once said

The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.
:p

a disputable matter, but still has some sense to it

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 11:27
'A dirty mind is a joy forever....:D

There's the back up if the love thing finally nails you.

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 11:39
It's not the love thing that actually nails me, but the way the conversation is flowing ;)

Ah yes, Oscar Fingal O'Flaherty Wills Wilde :D was good at this sort of stuff - tricky and mind-challenging

Anyway, LIFE IS TOO IMPORTANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY :D :D :D

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 11:46
wouldn't you like to be seriously - 'taken'?
:cool:

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 11:50
i'd prefer to be seriously GRABBED :)

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 11:52
:verycool:

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 12:12
Originally posted by SINICAL
i'd prefer to be seriously GRABBED :)

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 12:13
Originally posted by SINICAL
i'd prefer to be seriously GRABBED :)

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 12:44
he-he.... but it's more important to be nice :rolleyes:

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 14:00
I'm nice enough... just totally unreliable..
:(

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 14:07
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
:cool:

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 14:08
:p :p :p :p :p :p :p

peyote
05-08-2004, 14:12
lydnsay, just get the 6k/month job and stop rambling :p

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 14:13
REALLY OF THE FAIRER SEX... FEMALE?

THIS IS FAR TOO AGREEABLE....
:eek:

AND i'M RUNNING OUT OF EMOTICONS .....

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 14:15
Originally posted by peyote
lydnsay, just get the 6k/month job and stop rambling :p

YOU JUST SPROGGED UP IN MY MID-SENTENCE...

IT'S NOT ME - I AM TOTALLY UNDEMPLOYABLE, OR WHEN EMPLOYED.... TRYING TO GET FIRED?:D

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 14:58
Originally posted by lyndsay
REALLY OF THE FAIRER SEX... FEMALE?

THIS IS FAR TOO AGREEABLE....
:eek:

AND i'M RUNNING OUT OF EMOTICONS .....

speechless :) ;)
do admit, lyndsay, that it's better to run out of emoticons than of emotions :p ?

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 17:16
SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE?:p

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 17:31
:p :p :p
why not?
personal experiences can be breathtaking at times:p

while generalizing and elaborating on something abstract is only futile when it comes to emotions ;)

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 17:47
:alien:

Braders
05-08-2004, 19:13
Originally posted by lyndsay
gis a job!?

I was merely being sarcastic to the post about 6k in Moscow not being a lot ;)

lyndsay
05-08-2004, 20:06
I'm sure she's English and winding me up about being a Russian...


:confused:

....

SINICAL
05-08-2004, 23:03
;) the closer to the Irish border, the more flattering men are
:p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

no offence meant....just messing :p

lyndsay
06-08-2004, 12:22
can't work this thing,.