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Ghost
19-07-2004, 14:21
Read this article at lunch today. Curious to hear the opinions of all of my cyber-friends here.

----------------
Russia Ranked 57th-Nicest Place to Live

By Anatoly Medetsky
Staff Writer The United Nations has ranked Russia the 57th-best country to live in, calling it "remarkable progress" from last year's ranking of 63rd.

Russia is sandwiched between Bulgaria and Libya, ranked 56th and 58th, respectively, while Norway has retained the top spot on the annual human development index compiled by the UN Development Program.

The index measures 177 countries in terms of life expectancy, education level and adjusted real income. It is based on 2002 statistics, the latest that are available.

Norway is followed in the top 10 by Sweden, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Belgium, Iceland, the United States, Japan and Ireland. Sierra Leone is at the bottom of the list.

Russia's location on the index puts it in the category of countries with "medium human development," but close to the top 55 countries, which are considered to have "high human development."

UNDP praised Russia's leap forward. "We consider it as remarkable progress," said Viktoria Zotikova, UNDP spokeswoman in Moscow.

Russia probably made further progress during 2003, she said. The key factor holding the country back is life expectancy, which was 66.7 years in 2002, she said.

The countries at the top of the index have life expectancies of around 80 years. The country with the next-lowest life expectancy on the index is No. 78 Kazakhstan, at 66.2 years.

The UNDP rating puts Russia above all the other former Soviet republics except those in the Baltics: Estonia (36), Lithuania (41) and Latvia (50). Russia is also ahead of China, ranked 94th.

By some counts Russia beat even Norway. It has 420 physicians for every 100,000 people, compared to Norway's 367 physicians, according to the index.

Zotikova downplayed the figure. "The number of doctors doesn't directly testify to a high level of healthcare," she said.

Vladimir Pribylovsky, head of the Panorama think tank on domestic policy, said the UN report does not reflect reality. "I don't see a trend toward a better life," he said. "Maybe life in Uzbekistan and Belarus got worse then, and that's why our rating rose."

The painful social reform that is in the pipeline for next year -- the replacement of many privileges for veterans, pensioners and other low-income people with cash payments -- may further worsen living standards, he said. "Up to 70 percent of the people will suffer from that," Pribylovsky said.

The economy may also weaken if an AIDS epidemic hits in several years, killing hundreds of thousands of people annually, as projected by UN experts.

Russia, however, does have some positive trends. For instance, the birth rate has grown in a number of regions, although it is still below the death rate, Interfax reported earlier this year.

Shaun
19-07-2004, 14:24
I am not sure i agree with the high ranking, but more to the point I dont get why people feel the need for league tables - I mean what the hell kind of a statistic is 'your country is number 132 to live in'... pretty pointless

Ghost
19-07-2004, 14:26
Try to forget about the actual number for a minute. That's not the point. The point is comparing Russia in terms of other places in the world to live.

J.D.
19-07-2004, 14:30
The point of the article seemed to be that Russia has improved but they did not support their point well. As someone pointed out maybe other places got worse. Statistics can be made to say whatever you want. I found the article rather empty.

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 14:36
To understand the ranking fully JD you have to realise that the report is several hundred pages long, I have been trying to read it for a week now! This article is simply informing us of the fact that the report has come out.

kak
19-07-2004, 14:37
Originally posted by Ghost
Try to forget about the actual number for a minute. That's not the point. The point is comparing Russia in terms of other places in the world to live.

others places in the world to live?

Lot et Garonne, south west of France
Ask Boscoe if you need explanation ;):)

A view from my garden ;)

kak
19-07-2004, 14:38
DJ where can i get this report? any link?

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 14:41
Go here:

http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2003/

kak
19-07-2004, 14:42
Merci ;)

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 14:44
C'est mon plaisir!

kak
19-07-2004, 14:56
btw DJ your link is for 2003, for 2004 go here: http://hdr.undp.org/reports/view_reports.cfm?year=2004

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 14:59
Yes, sorry, I am wading through them all and posted the one I am currently on. No idea why I am reading this, but got to keep the brain working somehow, n'est pas?

kak
19-07-2004, 15:09
:agree:

Fa-Q!
19-07-2004, 15:12
Check out my crib!
http://www.beachdest.com/panama_city_beach_offers.htm

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 15:16
And which tree do you live in?

Ned Kelly
19-07-2004, 15:17
i'm just facing the prospect of having to leave russia in a couple of months and it's making me downright miserable...

...never thought the idea of swapping a six-month winter for a six-month summer would make me depressed...

really weird

LadyNatik
19-07-2004, 15:35
If someone who has never been to Russia reads this article it can really make that person change their mind.... But in reality I believe this country is a great place to live... And no country is perfect

Ghost
19-07-2004, 15:44
I was doing a lot of thinking the other day about that very same subject, Ned. My original project here was to come in, fix the place, hire a GM, put him in place, and exit stage right.

Now that I'm moving towards the hiring a GM phase, even though my project here is only 1/4 of the way over, I find myself being faced with returning to the real world. Now, when I say "real world" i don't mean that Moscow is a fantasy land. And maybe I do mean that.

Moscow is almost like college to me. I go out a lot, meet a bunch of different people, it's easy to meet women, you can get in a lot of trouble really easy, and all my bills are being paid for me (expat deal - yay). When I was a senior in college, and the end was near, so to speak, I became rather apprehensive about leaving behind the "good life" and going on to work. But at the same time, I wanted to get the hell out of school and work on my life. I see my life in Russia the same way. Leaving means I have to go back to having real world responsibilities and "growing up" in a sense again. But it also means I can get on with my life.

I don't know if that makes sense to any of you.

Blaked
19-07-2004, 16:11
No, it just makes me jealous. I want an expat package. It's too much to ask for a real life.

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 16:16
:agree:

I too have neither a real life nor an expat package. But life does stand still here in that you never seem to age and it is possible to avoid responsibilities, though I am sure of my ability to that anywhere!

Ghost
19-07-2004, 16:20
In your joke you might have hit the point I was trying to get to, DJ. Life stands still here. That's not bad, actually - but in reality, life isn't standing still, you just feel like it is. And that's, I think, what makes me apprehensive. I don't want to be 50 without kids or a family because I've spent it all drinking and whoring in Moscow.

(enter peanut gallery)

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 16:24
???

What is it about wife and kids that is so important? Why is it that people seem to think that it's compulsory or necessary? I don't see the requirement at all, seriously. In fact I rather feel it to be restricting.

And don't tell me about kids carrying on your genes after you are dead. That doesn't wash with me, if you're dead what do you care? Makes no difference to me AT ALL.

Ghost
19-07-2004, 16:28
If I inadvertantly tried to tell you what you want in my post, then I apologize. I was referring more to what will make me happy in life. It makes a big bit of difference to me, not because of genes or any of that you mentioned. To me, I find the idea of a quiet house, wife and a few kids rather appealing someday. Right now, what you read in my posts is the adult Ghost trying to reason with the punk Ghost.

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 16:30
LOL!!

Punk forever I say!


We are way off thread.

Ghost
19-07-2004, 16:37
It's my thread :) I can take it down any road I want!

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 16:40
You punk you!

kniga
19-07-2004, 16:43
Ghost,

This is seriously the most interesting post you have made. We have seen the mad Ghost, the petulent ghost, the unrepentent Ghost and the silly ghost, but this is the philosophical Ghost at his best! Moscow does have a singular effect on expats no matter where they are from, and for many it is a time of suspension from whatever they consider to be "the real world". The analogy about college/university is not bad and probably more accurate than many realize or would care to admit, although I think you necessarily reflect the male expoat viewpoint. Female expats are few and far between, usually married, and usually more sensible than their male counterparts. My unasked advice to you is to enjoy this special time in your life because you will probably never come this way again, and you will certainly be unlikely to encounter a culture and people as diversified and interesting as are the Russians. Welcome to Moscow, Ghost, I think you have finally arrived!

Blaked
19-07-2004, 16:50
At least someone will admit that he's here drinking and whoring! I can honestly say that I'm drinking, and my paycheck is a zero or so away from me whoring.

sfjohns67
19-07-2004, 16:52
I agree, I think the thread has taken a great direction. Russia is many different things to different people, but one thing common to us all is that it is NOTHING like where we come from! I don't necessarily buy into that whole "deep Russian soul" hype, but I have definitely made more close friends here, among both expats and Russians, than I have anywhere else I've been. I do think there is something metaphysical to why/how people live here, whether by birth or expat package, and it does seem to be a definite "tie that binds" all of us.

kniga
19-07-2004, 16:55
Johnny Reb,

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie!

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 17:02
I agree about the group of friends thing SFJ, but with a proviso. It is because we are abroad that we need, seek and make more friends. At home we feel, well, at home and the need for many friends is diminished therefore. When living back in the 'old country' everything and everyone is familiar, we can make friends anytime and we don't have so many experiences to share, we are all experiencing the same and feel no different from one another and therefore make no big effort to seek out new friends and experiences, plenty of time for it, not much need.

sfjohns67
19-07-2004, 17:07
I agree, with my own proviso. I went through similar "group abroad relationships" while I was stationed in Germany with the military. You're right, there was much more cohesiveness and I think we all understood even then that it was because we were out of our comfort zones. The caveat, though, is that we were there because we had been ordered to. The difference here in Russia, in my opinion, is that by and large the choice to come here was completely up to the individual. And again, I've made the same close friendships with Russians here, who are ostensibly still in their own comfort zones. I just think there is something common to each of us individuals that live here, and I believe it is a positive thing. I can't define it without further substance abuse, unfortunately.

kniga
19-07-2004, 17:08
DJ,

Right on, brother. A new land makes for new experiences and needs. Moscow just happens to be a truly fascinating city to expats for all the normal reasons plus a whole passel of other often unexpected, inexplicable and often frustrating reasons. I think expats seek out other expats to gain their concurrence of what they are experiencing here and the comfort that agreement brings. Yankees and Southerns getting together happily? Londoners and Northies getting together for a beer on purpose? Yep, and plenty of other differences in the "old country" disappear quickly in the new one. What a great leveler and a good chance to reevaluate some of one's past prejudices...

Braders
19-07-2004, 17:08
If i were honest i would say i'm here because very few places on earth pay me as much in the profession i have chosen.
That's not only it...in a strange kind of way i love - the hot water going off, arguments about service in the restaurants, the dodgy streets, being told we have no change at the exchange bank (sod off in other words), the winter, etc etc, i believe these things are character building and when i return to the real world surely nothing will bug me, get on my nerves, which i find true for myself.
Of course i love the Russian people once you get to know them, this helps as well.
If i think about it, is there anything i really detest about this country, probably not, ohhh the Albion on a Friday night maybe ;)
It's strange i know a friend who had a lovely job in St Kitts in the Caribbean in the Hilton, Villa on the beach (payed for), he was there 6 months after leaving Moscow he got offered a job in Moscow and came straight back again!?!

I will always be an expat i think i am destined for that, i simply cannot see myself living in the UK again, i think a lot of people on these boards are possibly the same, some people choose to live in their native country their whole lifes we can't live our lifes like that ...maybe it's sunk in for some maybe it hasn't for others.

FLEUR
19-07-2004, 17:15
Originally posted by kniga
Ghost,

Moscow does have a singular effect on expats no matter where they are from, and for many it is a time of suspension from whatever they consider to be "the real world". The analogy about college/university is not bad ...
Kniga,
It's not Moscow - it's the fact, that you left your home, your country, for example, you can ask any Russian, who had to leave for a year or more (like me, I lived in London for 1.5 years) - you feel absolutely the same, you go out much more, than when you were at home, you meet more people, you are much more active, even if you were a 'homebody' - when you find yourself in other country - your life becomes ADVENTUROUS, and you feel, that your 'real world' is there, at home...
Anyone, who leaves his country to work/study (or whatever) in another feels and behaves this way.

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 17:17
I am here mainly because I have been here a long time and it would be difficult for me to get a similar position back home as so much has changed. My salary is certainly not higher than the equivalent at home. However I have more flexibility here than at home in this field, and due to that have created and achieved greater things, this then leads on to some small celebrity status, I don't deny enjoying that!

Regarding SGFJ's comments on Russian friends, my comment allowed for that,I think that's part of it, you want to feel some kind of stability. As I have been here nearly ten years it is inevitable that the majority of my friends are Russian. Though in my field there are few friends.

kak
19-07-2004, 17:18
Originally posted by Braders
some people choose to live in their native country their whole life.

What does sound more strange to you?
the last sentence from Braders or this one:

Some people choose to live in a foreign country their whole life.

I do not understand how people can live away from their country/family/friends ... i mean i know people who have been here in Russia for 15 years!
:eek:
Expats yes, but expats for life??

Ghost
19-07-2004, 17:20
First of all, I am slightly offended at your commentary regarding me, Mr. book. I appreciate all the negative "Ghosts" you brought forth and recognize, but there have been other good Ghosts too. I suppose you've chosen to remember the bad ones only. *sigh*.

And Blaked, I did not admit I was whoring by any stretch of the imagination. Please don't put words in my mouth that will get my girlfriend pissed off at me.

kak
19-07-2004, 17:20
I think Fleur is quite right :agree:

sfjohns67
19-07-2004, 17:22
Originally posted by Ghost
In your joke you might have hit the point I was trying to get to, DJ. Life stands still here. That's not bad, actually - but in reality, life isn't standing still, you just feel like it is. And that's, I think, what makes me apprehensive. I don't want to be 50 without kids or a family because I've spent it all drinking and whoring in Moscow.

(enter peanut gallery)

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 17:23
On the other hand, discussing this at length gives it some kind of kudos, and makes one feel special. Thats really bull.

In short everyone has to be somewhere, we just happen to be here, nothing clever, nothing special. Maybe we'll move on, maybe not, maybe we'll be run over and die waiting for an ambulance, or buy badly cut drugs, or go home and be blown up in the plane on the way there.

End of the day, analysing it puts a far too important meaning on it. You are where you are at any given time, that's it, nothing else.

kak
19-07-2004, 17:26
I've spent it all drinking and whoring in Moscow.
--------------------------------------------------------------
SFJ this sentence is in the past time, maybe Ghost did it ..but not anymore ;) since he got a great girlfriend :agree:

Blaked
19-07-2004, 17:26
Why are foreigners from 'rich' countries called expatriates instead of immigrants, no matter how long they stay? If I was from central America and working in California, people would laugh at me if I said that I was a Costa Rican expatriate, even if it were true. One of my best friends is dating an immigrant/expatriate from Costa Rica.


As a side note, he tells me that smoking herb is legal in Costa Rica. How does it rank on the UN list?

kak
19-07-2004, 17:31
Originally posted by Blaked
Why are foreigners from 'rich' countries called expatriates instead of immigrants, no matter how long they stay? If I was from central America and working in California, people would laugh at me if I said that I was a Costa Rican expatriate, even if it were true. One of my best friends is dating an immigrant/expatriate from Costa Rica.


As a side note, he tells me that smoking herb is legal in Costa Rica. How does it rank on the UN list?

immigrant - a person who comes to a country where they were not born in order to settle there

expatriate - voluntarily absent from home or country

i see a difference ;)

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 17:31
Personally,as I pay taxes here and have lived here for so long I don't put a lablel on myself. However, interesting question. To expatriate means the same as to emigrate pretty much. But the point is I think, that immigrants change their citizenship, expatriates do not.

Braders
19-07-2004, 17:42
Originally posted by kakrout
I do not understand how people can live away from their country/family/friends ... i mean i know people who have been here in Russia for 15 years!
:eek:
Expats yes, but expats for life??

My family have lived and currently do live in different parts of the world anyway ;), so i guess that has some bearing on me not wanting to settle in the UK. As for friends? having lived here a long time i have very few close friends in the UK. The Country?, The UK has been brought up in countless threads before, i miss very little regarding the UK.

Could i be an expat for life, too right i could be, wouldn't even break a sweat, however i doubt very much i will be living in Russia all my life. I like this place, but there will be a time when i will give into my love of sandy beaches and wearing sandals all year round.

Ghost
19-07-2004, 17:44
Dear Frenchie and Redneck - It's neither past nor present you pinheads. It's me saying what I don't want to be. What I don't want to do, and long back to see that I've become.

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 17:45
I love the UK, as you call it. I love Russia (Moscow) I could learn to love Maurituas, am considering Spain, will consider anywhere pretty much. It's as I said you gotta be somewhere.

I am not planning to be here in my old age, I mean have you seen the state of those cemetaries? ;) :D

kak
19-07-2004, 17:47
Originally posted by Braders
but there will be a time when i will give into my love of sandy beaches and wearing sandals all year round.

Wich is it quite difficult to do in the UK ;)

DJ Biscuit
19-07-2004, 17:49
Again I will state, all this 'I will never go back, I am happy here there up your own a**e' talk is fine, but remember it aint all that clever living abroad, away from home. If the wottsit hits the proverbial we can all do one, and I bet most would, don't kid yourselves.

kak
19-07-2004, 17:49
Originally posted by Ghost
Dear Frenchie and Redneck - It's neither past nor present you pinheads. It's me saying what I don't want to be. What I don't want to do, and long back to see that I've become.

I ve got an excuse, i do not understand very well american language :p ....as for SFJ....i don't know :p

Shaun
19-07-2004, 18:01
ghost, it was pretty ambiguous.

what i took from it was

'this is what i am doing now. i dont want to do this for too long however because otherwise ill turn into a sad lonely old loser'

perhaps some more careful phraseing required?

DPG
19-07-2004, 18:14
Originally posted by DJ Biscuit
Again I will state, all this 'I will never go back, I am happy here there up your own a**e' talk is fine, but remember it aint all that clever living abroad, away from home. If the wottsit hits the proverbial we can all do one, and I bet most would, don't kid yourselves.

Agreed - the number of expats I've met (not only here) who say that one of the nicest things about living abroad is that you can leave at any time is huge!!

I say it basically every day between the end of November and the beginning of April!!;)

Ned Kelly
19-07-2004, 18:16
sorry i missed much of this thread, it's a good'un. but i had important stuff to do - like escape work and go for a bike ride in the sunshine.

ghost, you nailed it, it's kind of a limbo you live in and it's addictive.

to me, russians and russia is a tribe and a land...to be russian you must be born here, which massively differentiates it from aus. and i guess the us (though i've never been there) where anyone can be an aussie or a scepo as you turn up, get your documents, get an accent, play some sport and you're off.

in russia you can pretend you're part of it, but you're not; yet when you go home, as i found, you're not really part of that either. when i went to aus for the first time in five years it was like being a tourist and i loved it because it was like standing outside looking in. i didn;t want to come back to moscow. but the moment i stepped off the plane and it was -19, i started fighting with taxi drivers and then went careering down leningradsy, i got this surge of energy and something in me snapped (in a good sense) about russiamoscow.

now that i have to leave i've started to wonder whether this actually is home, that the energy of moscow is what i like in life. that the idea of being at the other end of the world, for all its fabulous things - and i love australia dearly - it lacks something special russia has - genuine uncertainty.

i'm not a believer in the russian soul, i wholeheartedly agree with sfj there, but there is this edginess or nervousness about russia that is like a narcotic. and maybe like any good junkie the idea of giving it up 'aint so appealing!

a few endorphyns have me rambling here...:p

kak
19-07-2004, 18:23
maybe i have not been here as long as others but i never felt this feeling you guys are talking about, i mean feeling like a stranger when you go back home ??? sounds almost scary to me.

DPG
19-07-2004, 18:57
Kakrout - It happens to me every time and scary it certainly is!!

It normally lasts about a week and then I start getting used to it again...there is always this 'I miss Moscow' feeling though...that is how I know my time here is not yet done - when I no longer have that feeling I simply won't get on the plane back!

kniga
19-07-2004, 20:00
Ghost,

No insult intended, old man. To the contrary, I tried to express the thought that I thought you had delivered up one of the most interesting threads we have seen in a long time. We are not often introspective on the expat site and I think you really started an interesting ball rolling as this extensive thread indicates. Peace, pardner!

Ghost
19-07-2004, 20:55
Heh...old man :) After yesterday's softball game, I sure feel that way.

kniga
19-07-2004, 21:08
Ghost,

Sorry, I've been around Brits so long that I've adopted some of their terminology...but I am also corrupting their British English with my Americanisms! :-)

pengwn9
19-07-2004, 21:42
We have to go back to the States for our requisite R&R trip in September. I don't want to go.

By then I'll have been here nearly a year. Russia seems almost normal to me now. I don't look forward to monotonous supermarket centers, endless freeways, parking tickets, drinking-in-public laws, and presidential politics. Strangely, I find that I have come to like not having an understanding of the Russian language--it has sort of left me to depend on my other senses to evaluate what is going on around me. An English speaking country will seem hum-drum in comparison. Not to mention the dreary philosophies of a country full of workaholic Protestants.

I like it better here. It's more alive.

pengwn9
19-07-2004, 21:57
Kakrout--I took this picture right here in Russia.

Sadie
19-07-2004, 23:11
You dont have to go when you dont want to go especially when you CAN stay. Each time somebody leaves Moscow forever I get a strange feeling they are making a mistake. Even when it is somebody I hardly know. I can understand when the intensity of life here weighs upon a person. But. When the rythm and the energy of Moscow matches you, you feel it, AND you are successful and have good perspectives here (&ur).. Its simply beyond my comprehension. Why to leave? You live where you long for, in my understanding, the other places you just exsist in. The city is fantastic, one cant deny that. The most fantastic thing about it is that Sadiechka lives in Moscow, you know ;) Kshisiechka too, . And we have the best circus in the world :p If you read this (especially the last 2 statements) and still thinking of the escape nuuu.. you are hopeless :p

kak
20-07-2004, 11:06
pengwn9, there are CLOUDS on your picture ;)
And when i took mine i was having a glass of good wine at the same time :p
just kidding, really nice view. Where is that?

Heyzeus
21-07-2004, 19:49
Some things I miss about Moscow are simply things that I miss about being in a big city. Having lots of friends around and lots of options available for me to kill time. In small town Nebraska I have neither of those. I miss the general energy level found by being in the major political and cultural center of the country. I also miss being treated like a celebrity when any of the locals found out what I was doing in Moscow. (So, can that be attributed to Moscow or just to my education?) I miss the excitement and curiousity that I would arouse by just being an American in Moscow. I don't know if that exists in other countries as well. I doubt the Canadians would be too impressed. Brits and Aussies probably feel the same way.

Anyway, I'm thinking that other than specific people and places in Moscow, what I miss could probably be found in other cities. Anyone care to confirm or deny?

DJ Biscuit
21-07-2004, 19:52
I see that.

What was it that you were doing here by the way?

You are in a small town now right? No night life, no parties etc, any chance of moving somewhere bigger?

Heyzeus
21-07-2004, 23:38
Well, DJ, I was there as part of a joint FBI/FSB training program. Or else I was an actor studying/teaching at the two best schools in the country. (Shchukin and MXAT) Small town of Holdrege right now. That's about 5,600 people. No night life, no parties. I'm trying to move somewhere bigger. It's all about getting a job, bro. And that WILL happen. Don't know which bigger city or how much bigger, but that's not so important right now.

By the way, Nebraska also has a state fossil. It's the mastodon. There's no alcohol in that either. (Just like the state drink and the state beverge.)

stefania2003
22-07-2004, 00:44
This is an excellent thread:) I've been here a long time and came out here to work as an interpreter/guide, got married to a Russian and then divorced, went back to the UK for a break and then back here again where I have had very good work experience teaching and gained an excellent reference. I also had some marvellous medical treatment here and met some excellent people who I hope to keep in touch with. That said....the minuses far outweigh the pluses for me now. Moscow is big, dirty and hostile. Ned Kelly rightly said Russians are a tribe..I'm first generation English but I know Russians who were born here and lived abroad and then came back here that even their own people won't accept. Also...as Kniga said...we women expats are few and far between. After 15 years I've simply had enough. I have met other people who feel the same and guess what..they are usually female. It doesnt' take a genius to work out why the men come out here..it's we females who are the schmucks! Sorry ladies:)
I agree with Kakrout that some people just enjoy living abroad. I guess that's why I teach English for a living. But I have decided to go to warmer and friendlier climes and let's say that my first love, Italy, has my name on it:)
I know that the anti-Moscow opinions usually get shot down in flames but I'll risk it:)

gadfly
22-07-2004, 06:01
Russians may be a tribe, but every super-huge city is in a way a congregation of outcasts. We city dwellers don't fit in small town environment where people can giggle behind our backs - only the license granted us by partial anonymity keeps us sane. If you like sexual promiscuity, you marry outside your race, you're homosexual, you're an atheist, or you're a drug user, you become easily labeled in a place where everyone goes to the same church and eats at the same Denny's.

Besides, as was said of New York, the city is so big that you can't help but find a few people that are similar enough to you to be your friends, no matter how much of a wierdo you may seem to the ex-commie next door who makes mayonnaise salad.

Ghost
22-07-2004, 10:07
I told you, Moose, that I could kick some doors open for you in New York if I just knew something you were good at besides getting drunk, hassling strippers and getting arrested.

ChinChilla
22-07-2004, 10:28
Hey, thats cool! Could you kick any doors open for me in NYC please.
I am good at ceramics and embroidering in crosses!! ;)

gadfly
22-07-2004, 12:35
It's impossible to get laid in New York for superficial reasons unless you're hot or mega-rich. The way that most people get laid here (wodka and hinted-at trappings of a 'hot shot' 2k+ income) just don't happen in NYC. Its harder to get ecstacy there than it is here! And nice knowin 'ya if you're a smoker. 1 mil average home sale price for Manhattan (ohh, and you MUST live in Manhattan or you're 'Bridge and Tunnel) and 8 dollar cigarettes? No thanks. Not unless the streets really are paved with gold.

Kukla
23-07-2004, 07:52
OK, guys! You convince me that to returning back to my own country after 7 years in US is not that bad!

All I got in US after marrying a Marine (he is great, it's not about him! I'm saying it just in case if Sfjohn67 is a marine:)))))) and moving here is a lame Staff Accountant position (Controller in Russia), mortgage (4 bedroom in Russia my own), payments for a car loan (my own car in Russia), planning even a simple cook-out 5 weeks in advance and some friends that I won't even feel bad to leave behind and never see them again, which means that they are not really freands to me (FLEUR you are so wrong! I don't know how is it in UK, but US is the last place where you want to meet "friends forever"even if they are Russian they just "nice" and smile all the time). Now my husband (US marine!) came out with idea to go back to my motherland, I got exited and scared at the same time, the difference between me and him that he spent 1 year in St-Pete and I lived there for a long-long-long time and I know what is it all about, so I got to the inet and tried to find something that could convince me that it will be a good idea to go back to Russia and get back to this madness. I got to this thread where everybody is pretty much like being in Russia and that even dirty streets, bad service and tons of paperwork no matter where you go and what you do workwise doesn't really scary anybody. Especially I liked the post of Ned Kelly about -19 and fighting with taxi drivers, I think that the way is a theater starts with a cloak-room, Russia starts with taxi drivers, in Russia they are different then anywhere in the world (if you speak Russian they will tell you a lot of stories at 3 AM)

Heyzeus
23-07-2004, 17:32
Ghost, I am also good at hassling prostitutes as you well remember. And Fa-Q can attest to my jumping through the window abilities. I think NYC is pretty much begging for me...

And (to be on thread) yes, I would come back to Moscow in a hearbeat if I could support myself there. I miss all y'all. There I've said it and I don't regret it. ;)