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Cherva
23-08-2003, 15:22
I've heard that new for russian market german 'low cost' aircompany 'Germania' is going to operate here. Does anybody know what it's like? How much it's reliable? They promise to sell return tickets to Munich at EUR111 ...

neilmcg
23-08-2003, 16:58
Apparently it's fact. They are most likely to operate out of DME for the cost-savings that offers.

I've heard that it is actually a currently-operating Charter operation which is going "full-time" and Scheduled, so they already have a track history of some kind.

I wish them well. Watch out for Aeroflot Dirty Tricks to stuff up the operation though... like their moronic plan which originally prevented Trans-Aero flying to London direct. Instead T-A had to rebadge their flight as the "paper airline" "Baltic Airlines" and fly to Riga. They touched-down at Riga, and immediately took off for London as Trans-Aero. Finally Aeroflot's spoiler operation was withdrawn.

EasyJet currently fly from Munich (but only to Luton). However, EasyJet have a purchase option on BA's German subsidiary Deusche BA, which would give them full rights on running routes from Germany "to anywhere".

I think the significance of this move is not so much in offering a cheap route to Munich... it marks the end of the price-cartel on flights to/from Russia, which are currently around 40% higher than on comparable-length flights to any other country. And this can only be better for the Consumer :)

N.

MDW
23-08-2003, 21:35
What about Siberia Airlines? It's an already existing and successfully operating low fare carrier with a lot of destinations not only throughout Russia but also Europe (Germany, Spain, Italy), Asia and even Africa! Their hub is in Novosibirsk, but many flights originate in Moscow as well. Check out "English Dot S7 Dot Ru"!

ddi
23-08-2003, 23:00
What about Siberia?
Siberia flies return to Munich for $245, only a notch up from what Germania is going to charge - €222 - for the route.

Дешево и без обеда (http://russianfocus.firmsite.ru/index.ipj?clsid=3795239278-6953-16397-191&method=getArticle&id=24113&rubric_id=815)

neilmcg
24-08-2003, 00:05
Well, it depends if Germania's $111 fare is single, or return?

MDW
24-08-2003, 01:32
It does not matter what Germania is going to charge. As soon as they announce any fare for an actual sale, Siberia will beat it. Simple and plain.

ddi
24-08-2003, 09:30
Well, it depends if Germania's $111 fare is single, or return?

Well, alas, it's oneway. And it's 111 euro - to compare upgrade to $$$ accordingly.

Silver lining - Germania's €222 is all inclusive whereas Siberia's $245 excludes taxes and fees, so you still save something with the germans :)

Plus - some more competition can never be bad.

And that's I think their website:
Germania Express (http://www.germaniaairline.de)

MDW
24-08-2003, 22:18
Here's what GEXX has to offer: http://www.eurolloyd.ru/telegram/MOW_Tarife%20ST_KD.doc

Let's see how and when Siberia, Aeroflot and Lufthansa will strike back.

neilmcg
25-08-2003, 12:34
BTW, it is worth mentioning that as a purely one-way fare, this is amazing value. You will not find any one-way fare for this money on any other airline. (One-way fares are traditionally hugely over-priced by airlines - it's a myth that they will be cheaper than the cheapest return fare).

Just out of interest, I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago... although there is not (yet) a low-price/no-frills airline in Russia, there is one next door. FLYING FINN go out of Helsinki to a wide range of destinations in Finland, and also to London from Eu98 one-way. If money is a greater concern than convenience, it is still the cheapest one-way route to London, even considering you have to take the sleeper train to Helsinki (and pay for it!) first.


Let's hope Flying Finn start operations to Moscow and St P sometime in the future?

N.

Flying Finn (http://www.flyingfinn.fi/index.php?page=home&lang=eng)

bibliofil
25-08-2003, 13:04
Actually, Flying Finn has been the most popular route for Russians in London for some time now.

But I think that the time of budget airlines has not come yet to Moscow. Visas to EU would not allow them to get enough customers to make it worthwile.

I'd love to be proved wrong.

neilmcg
25-08-2003, 15:53
>> Visas to EU would not allow them to get enough customers to make it worthwile. <<

I can see your point, sadly :( However, I think that's going to change. There are closer ties now between France and Germany after recent political events. Putin makes the point about visas at every possible opportunity. I think the system will change slowly, at least for the Schengen countries. I cannot see the dinosaur-like Brits rushing to change... but it will be their loss! Blair will sit moaning on his moronic butt that his new friends the Americans aren't coming as tourists... and at the same time he can't see that tourists from elsewhere in Europe have money which is just as good. But this is off the point of airlines - in a direct sense, anyhow :)

Whilst I agree with you in the short-term, I think there is SUCH a strong prime market for low-cost travel in Russia that market forces will win-out over numbskull politicians :) And it will happen in the next 3-4 years.

That's why I consider the Germania thing important - it plays the fanfare for the real show to begin. Already there's talk of British Midland wanting to get into Moscow, and this would be excellent news for everyone. They are even entitled to it, too?! All airline licences are given bilaterally - so Aeroflot have their in exchange for British Airways right to fly. However, Trans-Aero received a licence in exchange for a second UK airline flying in.... at the time it was widely thought Virgin would do so. But then the 1998 Default happened, and Virgin pulled out. The Second Licence is still available, and it's only a question of who applies for it? British Midland (or maybe even bmibaby?) would be perfectly positioned for this route, since they are already established in E Europe.

I doubt EasyJet or RyanAir could make money on it. The real money is made from pax transferring off other airlines (through careful alliances, of the kind BMid have and EasyJet despite) to get to Moscow. You could join a BMid flight to Moscow at Heathrow... but there's almost nothing arriving at Luton (!) which would help fill-up a Moscow flight. And even apart from the visa problems which would arise, who in their right mind would want to transfer from a flight from Canada or the USA from Heathrow or Gatwick to Luton? 2 hours on a bus, at least? But British Midland are perfectly positioned for this :)

N.

MDW
25-08-2003, 21:23
American low fare airline experience should be very helpful to Russia, too:
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/vacations/destinations/2003/2003-04-18-cheap-airlines.htm

MDW
25-08-2003, 21:29
However, my favorite airlines are non-low-budget ones: www.HootersAir.com and www.CompanionAir.com.

Birusa
27-08-2003, 17:52
About Germania - http://www.rbcdaily.ru/index2.shtml

MDW
27-08-2003, 20:27
index2.shtml is the link that gets updated (changed) on a regular basis. there's nothing about germania now.

Jenny1
08-09-2003, 17:49
Euro 111 one way... however, make sure you get the ticket via internet since they charge you extra taxes (Russian VAT) and extra fees getting the ticket here in Moscow... and the baggage limit is only 15 kg (plus 5kg)..

yuriobass
16-09-2003, 14:08
taking Germania makes sense only if you need a cheap one-way ticket, otherwise you have a pretty nice choice of airlines that bring you for about the same money to/from Germany, yet they also feed you onboard. Not that it is somewhat super important, but still....
Anyway, no normal airline would offer you one-way fare of 111EUR
And for 222EUR (return flight) - which is some $250, you can easily get on Aeroflot, Siberia, Encore and others..

Shaun
07-10-2003, 18:44
Actually, for the REAL paupers, like me, the very cheapest way to get to Moscow from London, and what Im going to do next week, is as follows:

Ryanair flight to Stockholm, which Ive bought for £2 plus tax = £15

Ferry from Stockholm to Tallinn = £25

Train from Tallin - Moscow = £21

So, £61, about $100 London-Moscow - not bad

yuriobass
07-10-2003, 19:09
Well, this sounds a bit off center, to be truthful with you...
I don´t think there are so many people so much ENJOYING different means of transport in a row.....

Are you SO short of money may be? Do you need help?.. :)

cyka
07-10-2003, 20:17
Originally posted by Shaun
Actually, for the REAL paupers, like me, the very cheapest way to get to Moscow from London, and what Im going to do next week, is as follows:

Ryanair flight to Stockholm, which Ive bought for £2 plus tax = £15

Ferry from Stockholm to Tallinn = £25

Train from Tallin - Moscow = £21

So, £61, about $100 London-Moscow - not bad

and how long will this very creative route take you?

Shaun
08-10-2003, 06:03
I'll leave London at Lunchtime, take the evening ferry from stockholm to Tallinn, spend the next day in Tallinn and then the train overnight to Moscow. So about 2 days.

Yes, I am that short! I'm going to be earning $1000 a month and need to find an apartment and living costs out of that. AND save to pay off credit cards. And all these bastards on here are scaring me with their talk of 'minimum salaries' for expats being $2k plus housing allowance!

jheisel
08-10-2003, 12:04
If you're only going to be making $1,000, how would $2,000 and a housing allowance scare you? If the latter was a reality, I would think you would find it very welcome!

Shaun
08-10-2003, 15:13
er, well, that was kind of my point. if you're only going to be on $1000 its quite scary to hear people talking about $2k being the minimum, isnt it?

strange

DaveUK1965
08-10-2003, 15:22
Hi Shaun -

You CAN survive on 1k, mate, but.... the key word there IS "survive". It`d be very difficult. The housing costs are the main killer, especially for Westerners. If not very careful, you can end up with a load of Chechens and Azerbaijani`s as neighbours - or end up paying the vodka bill of the family you`re staying with....... and contracts in Russia tend to be just, er, pieces of paper where landlords are concerned....

Good thing is - when you DO get to Moscow, get off networking and the possibilities open up to you. Not only can you step up the ladder faster there than back home in Blighty, but - there`s also possibilities like teaching English as well which`ll supplement the salary until a better job comes along. And as I know, the main thing about getting a job in Moscow is -actually being there in the first place, as no one pays relocation nowadays.

If you don`t hit the clubs or pubs every night - well ! Most Russians manage to live on much less.... but they don`t have to fly home now and then, make international calls or get overcharged for everything when they speak with a foreign accent.. but. Get there and the possibilities increase ten fold.


Originally posted by Shaun
er, well, that was kind of my point. if you're only going to be on $1000 its quite scary to hear people talking about $2k being the minimum, isnt it?

strange

jheisel
09-10-2003, 00:46
Originally posted by Shaun
er, well, that was kind of my point. if you're only going to be on $1000 its quite scary to hear people talking about $2k being the minimum, isnt it?

strange

I would say disappointing, not scary.

And for what it's worth, I have almost always lived in the center (for a few months lived at Sokol - 3 stops out if I remember) and for less than $450 a month, with furniture. And only one of my landlords has turned out to be insane and completely disregarded our contract.

For what it's worth, I still don't make $2k/month, but I live ok.

twaj
16-10-2003, 21:54
I am indebted to you. I was looking for a cheap way to get to Stockholm from London to do the ferry thing - it's actually even easier to go through Riga.



Originally posted by Shaun
Actually, for the REAL paupers, like me, the very cheapest way to get to Moscow from London, and what Im going to do next week, is as follows:

Ryanair flight to Stockholm, which Ive bought for £2 plus tax = £15

Ferry from Stockholm to Tallinn = £25

Train from Tallin - Moscow = £21

So, £61, about $100 London-Moscow - not bad

DaveUK1965
17-10-2003, 05:02
Twaj, did you factor in the transit visas and the possibility of ferries sailing without you as you got held up when you tried to get through Customs by a land route ??

My ex once took the bus - the BUS - from Volgograd to Dortmund to see me - four days. It was $50 cheaper than flying, y`see. I`d already sent her the money to fly, but it was more, er, logical to "economise" and spend 8 days of the visa on the road and save $50. ;-))))) (A maiden aunt of mine used to get the bus to another town to get 2 pence off a loaf of bread - the bus ride cost a shilling - twelve pence - same thing.... )

Point is that my ex spent the best part of two MORE days trying to get through both Ukraine and Poland to Germany. Customs holdups as far as the eye can see.... ;-)))



Originally posted by twaj
I am indebted to you. I was looking for a cheap way to get to Stockholm from London to do the ferry thing - it's actually even easier to go through Riga.

kristian
17-10-2003, 17:11
Originally posted by Shaun
er, well, that was kind of my point. if you're only going to be on $1000 its quite scary to hear people talking about $2k being the minimum, isnt it?

strange

Shaun,

I participated in that thread, and certainly didn't mean to scare anyone. The $2k+housing minimum applied to a middle-management position, for somebody moving with his family (wife at least.)

Given how admirably you've optimized your route here, I think you will manage just fine on $1000. Your biggest problem is accommodation, otherwise you can live here for next-to-nothing once you figure out the retail system.

best of luck!

Shaun
19-10-2003, 03:45
well, to update on this... Kristian, thanks for that. The lovely organisation Im working for have decided to up the pay to $1200 and pay for the flights - so its no economy route for me no more - BA to domodedovo. wonderous.

Dave - transit visas not required for most Western nationalities for Estonia or Sweden. Overnight train from Moscow to Tallinn would get you there morning. Even with a several hour delay at customs, youd still get the 6pm ferry to Stockholm.

Once Ryanair start flying out of Tampere, Finland next month it'll be even easier. Flying Finn seems good, but the ridiculous £1/or even FREE tickets can only be had on Ryanair. (Check website now for FREE tix Tampere-London - just pay tax)

Its a ****ing hassle, but if youre strapped for cash and dont have a lot of luggage is perfectly fine, and you get to see two damn nice capitals on the way too...

DaveUK1965
19-10-2003, 03:47
Hope it goes just fine, Shaun !! Good luck, mate !!

Wahey - no visa for Estonia ? Well - that could make life interesting... have a good journey - great to see the firm coughed up the ticket money - and !!!!! When`re you off ???

Shaun
20-10-2003, 13:36
Indeed no visa for Estonia, nor Latvia, nor Lithuania - not for some time. They are cosying up to the EU - the people who need visas now are the russians - hence all the stress about trains to Kaliningrad etc.

Arriving tomorrow - complete with filthy English flu...