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View Full Version : Say what you will about the US, but the EU is pathetic.



Carbo
25-09-2008, 16:23
What a supine bunch European countries are.

The US bailed us out of the First World War, and we would have lost the Second too if it wasn’t for their industrial might, their manpower, and Russia’s bloodcurdling sacrifice.

During the cold war, Europe consistently neglected its own defence, effectively ceding control to the US. We would have certainly fallen to nefarious Soviet incursion if not for America’s commitment to a free Europe.

Even our energy dealings with Russia are pervaded with solipsistic spinelessness.

Now, in today’s Telegraph, I read this from Ambrose Evans-Pritchard:


EU refuses bail-out package despite crisis fears

“The European Union no plans “yet” for a rescue package along the lines of the Paulson plan despite severe stress in the region’s banking system and further evidence that the bloc is sliding into a deep and protracted recession.

“The situation we face here in Europe is less acute and member states do not at this point consider that a US style plan is needed,” said Joaquin Almunia, the EU’s economics commissioner, in a tense session at the European Parliament.

“We didn’t have subprime mortgages. We do not have investment banks. In any case, it’s not up to the EU; it’s up to every one of the member states to decide whether they need to launch this kind of fiscal initiative.”

Daniel Gross, director of the Centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels, said euro-zone lenders are heavily exposed to the fall-out from the US credit crisis, describing the Paulson plan as a de facto rescue for the Euopean banking system.

It has emerged that French finance minster Christine Lagarde was one of those pleading with US Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson last week to bail out AIG, which had insured over $300bn of credit derivatives to European firms.

Mr Gross said Deutsche Bank deploys fifty times leverage and has liabilites of $2,000bn, equivalent to 80pc of Germany’s GDP. Fortis Bank has liabilities of 300pc of Belgian GDP. These dwarf the burden of any US bank on the US government balance sheet.”

I must come clean and say that Evans-Pritchard is an arch europhobe who has been telling anyone who would listen that, for a variety of reasons, the euro is doomed to failure as a currency. I rather suspect he is enjoying the current situation has a glimmer of hope that his theory will be proved prescient.

Nevertheless, he is correct to draw attention the ECB’s and EU’s molasses, misguided movement in response to the credit crisis.

The ECB raised interest rates – unfathomably – last time out, and they’re not planning to follow the US’s excellent example of moving heaven and earth to put a bottom on the market and start the re-building process. It’s all very much reminiscent of the Hoover administration’s hawkish inactivity before the 1929 Wall Street Crash and Great Depression.

And it seems, sickeningly, that they are waiting for the US to bail them out again.

Transparent Theatre
25-09-2008, 16:36
And it seems, sickeningly, that they are waiting for the US to bail them out again.

In all fairness, it seems abundantly clear that it was US bankers whose illegal trading prompted the crisis....

Carbo
25-09-2008, 16:39
In all fairness, it seems abundantly clear that it was US bankers whose illegal trading prompted the crisis....
Illegal?

And do you not realize that European banks were just as involved in dervatives and CDOs and structured debt as the Americans?

Here's the point, morally, the right thing to do is to clearly let them all rot. However, if we do that, it will take us all down, and so it would be cutting off our nose to spite our face.

The Americans have realized this; the Europeans have yet to.

Judge
25-09-2008, 21:19
So this is the reason why Brown was snubbed by Henry Paulson.

Judge
28-09-2008, 01:40
This bit of news will make American taxpayers even more mad.
Why should the UK bail out their banks when they can get America to do it for them.

US Financial Rescue Plan: Will UK Banks Benefit From Bail-Out Fund, Asks Michael Wils | Business | Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/US-Financial-Rescue-Plan-Will-UK-Banks-Benefit-From-Bail-Out-Fund-Asks-Michael-Wils/Article/200809415107747)

fenrir
28-09-2008, 10:09
In all fairness, it seems abundantly clear that it was US bankers whose illegal trading prompted the crisis....

It was bankers ALL OVER THE WORLD that led to this problem. Read the news and see for yourself how banks are in trouble in Europe, Russia, etc. So, you can keep your 'it's all America's fault' comments to yourself on this one. Greed is universal.

pjw
28-09-2008, 14:44
It's controversial, and not everyone will pat me on the back for saying this, but America continues digging itself this hole and should be left alone. Afterall the planned US Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Map_of_USA_with_state_names.svg" class="image" title="U.S. Budget &amp; Debt Topics"><img alt="U.S. Budget &amp; Debt Topics" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Map_of_USA_with_state_names.svg/200px-Map_of_USA_with_state_names.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a5/Map_of_USA_with_state_names.svg/200px-Map_of_USA_with_state_names.svg.pngalone is $515 BILLION. Way beyond their means. Incredible. Think about all those millions, not to mention the billions, oh my god, IT'S HALF A TRILLION, I think we have all gone completely mad. As far as I'm concerned, when you waste all your money on candy, it's your own fault. So maybe it's time America humbly resigns as world cop? :idea:

Gypsy
28-09-2008, 15:09
What a supine bunch European countries are.

And it seems, sickeningly, that they are waiting for the US to bail them out again.
The title you put to this and your last line which cannot be derived from anything written are simply pathetic, and demonstrate your complete and total ignorance of the EU.

MissAnnElk
28-09-2008, 15:13
So maybe it's time America humbly resigns as world cop? :idea:

When we don't jump right in to help, we get in trouble for that too.

Sometimes we can't win.

Gypsy
28-09-2008, 15:38
When we don't jump right in to help, we get in trouble for that too.

Sometimes we can't win.
No you can't win - but that's the price you pay. 'Twas ever thus.

But it is the EU that is being criticised here and from what has been posted I cannot see what for.

Further I don't see this as a problem peculiar to one country or one party,it is a huge problem caused by greedy bankers who ignored the most basic and fundamental rules of banking in chasing illusory profits.

If anyone has a problem with Europe, and Carbo seems to have a huge chip on his shoulder about it,then they should at least take a little time out to discover what the EU actually is and what it can do. A clue is - it is not a country.