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View Full Version : what should be the ideal salary package for moscow in recent times?



Rif
14-09-2008, 02:24
I am an indian expat working in middle east and I have an offer to relocate to moscow as operations manager and they are offering me USD 3000. I need to take care of my family accomodation in that. I have read most valuable inputs from the expats in this forum about cost of living and life in moscow. I will appreciate if you can suggest me about this package and what i should ask for? thanks

米乐龙
14-09-2008, 10:38
Let me just say this, 3000 USD is nowhere near enough to support yourself and your family in Moscow. 3000 USD may only cover your accomodation expenses, or may not, depending where you want to live. At least double what they are offering.

Kartoshka
14-09-2008, 12:39
I agree that it seems low. It will make your life much simpler if you can negotiate a package including visa support, accommodation and health insurance, and schooling if you have children. Otherwise you need to factor these costs into the salary you request. The cost of accommodation will obviously depend on the size of your family and where in the city you want to live, but you should not expect to pay less than $2000 a month. Tell us more about your family and we may be able to give you some more specific advice.

traveller
14-09-2008, 13:51
Let me just say this, 3000 USD is nowhere near enough to support yourself and your family in Moscow. 3000 USD may only cover your accomodation expenses, or may not, depending where you want to live. At least double what they are offering.

Ha! What a joke. 3K US per month is more than enough for you and your family unless you plan to live in the center and eat at the most expensive restaurants. Take the offer. Don't blow the deal by demanding DOUBLE what they are offering. What bad advice someone would give. Good luck to you and your family! :thumbsup:

kruno
14-09-2008, 23:46
Ha! What a joke. 3K US per month is more than enough for you and your family unless you plan to live in the center and eat at the most expensive restaurants. Take the offer. Don't blow the deal by demanding DOUBLE what they are offering. What bad advice someone would give. Good luck to you and your family! :thumbsup:

I am not sure that you are talking about Moscow... and I must agree with previous opinions, that 3K US per month is not enough for a life in Moscow... Especially not if he is going to pay for rent himself from his salary... and if possible he should try to negotiate for a package including visa support and health insurance (as Kartoshka suggested)...

BeachBum
15-09-2008, 09:20
Ha! What a joke. 3K US per month is more than enough for you and your family unless you plan to live in the center and eat at the most expensive restaurants. Take the offer. Don't blow the deal by demanding DOUBLE what they are offering. What bad advice someone would give. Good luck to you and your family! :thumbsup:
traveller is correct. dont ruin your deal. If they are Russian company they will just find somebody else....3000USD is fine. You can find an apartment at any place off the end of the metro for about 1000USD. they rest is more than enough to supprt a family for food and additional things!!!

honesty
15-09-2008, 10:29
Well, 3000 usd is not bad in moscow actually. But it will be ideal for you if the company could cover the accomodation. Then you will live a good conditions here. I think this is negotiable with companies. But again, it isn't bad.The more the better :)

米乐龙
15-09-2008, 11:14
dont ruin your deal. If they are Russian company they will just find somebody else....3000USD is fine. You can find an apartment at any place off the end of the metro for about 1000USD. they rest is more than enough to supprt a family for food and additional things!!!

Perhaps, however I don't call 3000 USD much of a "deal". The OP asked what the "ideal salary package" is, however 3000 USD is not "ideal", definitely not for an expat, wife, and kids. I think you would agree that simply surviving on 3000 USD is not what the OP should be coming to Moscow for.

You are forgetting holidays, trips back to India to see family, schooling, clothing + ... retirement. Forget buying a family car, you will have to drag your kids through the metro... from the last station I might add.

To the OP, at least ask for accomodation to be included.

boscoe
15-09-2008, 11:23
Ha! What a joke. 3K US per month is more than enough for you and your family unless you plan to live in the center and eat at the most expensive restaurants. Take the offer. Don't blow the deal by demanding DOUBLE what they are offering. What bad advice someone would give. Good luck to you and your family! :thumbsup:

What? I think it's you that is giving bad advice! There is no way on earth I'd bring my family to live in Moscow for $3000 per month, my two bed apartment costs more than that!

Rif
15-09-2008, 12:40
What? I think it's you that is giving bad advice! There is no way on earth I'd bring my family to live in Moscow for $3000 per month, my two bed apartment costs more than that!

Dear All,

Thank you very much to all of you for your opinions, I am really confuse now, let me make it more clear. I have a 2 year old kid and company has offered $3000 + visa cost and paid yearly vacations. The job will be based in and around moscow taking care of few distant locations. I need to be stationed at Moscow.

Can you suggest me what will be monthly house hold expenses? I am definetly looking for some saving at the end of the day. what deal i should try to negotiate? will $3000 + accomodation will be fair enough? I am a 12 years experienced IT proffessional.

Please guide me

Thanks

honesty
15-09-2008, 12:52
In my opinion, you better insist on accomodation to be provided by your company. With 1000 usd you can rent only a one room flat. with 1000 euro you can find a two rooms flat but again not in center. Note, that to rent a flat from zero you will need three months rent at once (one month rent, one month deposit, one month rent price for agent).

boscoe
15-09-2008, 12:55
I think you'd manage with $3000 plus accomodation but I don't think you'd be saving anything.

Rif
15-09-2008, 13:21
I think you'd manage with $3000 plus accomodation but I don't think you'd be saving anything.

What will be the monthly house hold expenses for the family of 3 excluding house rents?

BeachBum
15-09-2008, 14:26
Dear All,

Thank you very much to all of you for your opinions, I am really confuse now, let me make it more clear. I have a 2 year old kid and company has offered $3000 + visa cost and paid yearly vacations. The job will be based in and around moscow taking care of few distant locations. I need to be stationed at Moscow.

Can you suggest me what will be monthly house hold expenses? I am definetly looking for some saving at the end of the day. what deal i should try to negotiate? will $3000 + accomodation will be fair enough? I am a 12 years experienced IT proffessional.

Please guide me

Thanks
Here is the facts:
1) you can easily find an apartment in Moscow for 1000USD a month. It will be basic apartment. Not euro remont, silver and gold toilets in security protected area like these silver spoon in the mouth expats )and I am one of them! minus the silver spoon up the arse ).
2) living expenses for 2 including food, metro and transportation. can easily be done for 1000 USD per month. this will leave you with 1000 USD for extras including health care, savings and entertainment.
Do not do your self a disfavor listening to these scary stories from expats working for financial companies making 6000 to 10000USD each month. they are at the top end of the feeding chain and do not respresent the norm.
The fact is that most Russians have very good lives on a far smaller salary.

Now the fact that you are an IT manager is different. If you do a search of jobs in Moscow you will see most IT managers make over 4000USD. But that is a salaray issue and dependant on your experience. You should search job sites for IT positions in Moscow. and compare your qualifications. I myself now nothing about IT. I would say that you are your own best critic in terms of your experience and what it will "buy" for you in the Russian job market if you know the base salaries in question.

boscoe
15-09-2008, 15:00
Here is the facts:
1) you can easily find an apartment in Moscow for 1000USD a month. It will be basic apartment. Not euro remont, silver and gold toilets in security protected area like these silver spoon in the mouth expats )and I am one of them! minus the silver spoon up the arse ).
2) living expenses for 2 including food, metro and transportation. can easily be done for 1000 USD per month. this will leave you with 1000 USD for extras including health care, savings and entertainment.
Do not do your self a disfavor listening to these scary stories from expats working for financial companies making 6000 to 10000USD each month. they are at the top end of the feeding chain and do not respresent the norm.
The fact is that most Russians have very good lives on a far smaller salary.

Now the fact that you are an IT manager is different. If you do a search of jobs in Moscow you will see most IT managers make over 4000USD. But that is a salaray issue and dependant on your experience. You should search job sites for IT positions in Moscow. and compare your qualifications. I myself now nothing about IT. I would say that you are your own best critic in terms of your experience and what it will "buy" for you in the Russian job market if you know the base salaries in question.
You'd better like palmini and stale bread, living in a slum, traveling for hours on an over crowded metro and not going out more than once a month.

Beach Bum, you and I have a different definition of living... but your nic probably should have given that away

BeachBum
15-09-2008, 15:49
You'd better like palmini and stale bread, living in a slum, traveling for hours on an over crowded metro and not going out more than once a month.

Beach Bum, you and I have a different definition of living... but your nic probably should have given that away
actually, I agree with you . But definitions are not standards. If it was up to me I'd sell out and be living like a fat dog in Miami right now, party on S Beach. and live the good life. But I am stuck here on a small salary also. Doesn't mean I dont know what filet mignon tastes like washed down with a vintage Rosthschild Red. Hell I used to own a million dollar apartment here until it got stolen from me. Just clawign my way back up like most people.

But really, 1000 bucks buys some good eatin' if your not dining out. its buys a couple movies and a night or 2 on the town. and really, if you call sitting in your Mercedes for 3 hours to to and fro work each day living I'll take the metro any day!.......

米乐龙
15-09-2008, 16:08
But I am stuck here on a small salary also.

Well that is your choice. Fortunately Moscow has plenty of money making opportunities for those wishing to make a nice silver spoon salary here.


Hell I used to own a million dollar apartment here until it got stolen from me.

Now that sounds like an interesting story BB, please tell us how a "million dollar apartment" was stolen from you.


if you call sitting in your Mercedes for 3 hours to to and fro work each day living I'll take the metro any day!.......

I am a huge metro fan too BB.

BeachBum
15-09-2008, 16:32
Well that is your choice. Fortunately Moscow has plenty of money making opportunities for those wishing to make a nice silver spoon salary here.



Now that sounds like an interesting story BB, please tell us how a "million dollar apartment" was stolen from you.



I am a huge metro fan too BB.
I'd be happy to PM you the story. But really I dont like to spill my guts on an aopen forum.

PS about the silver spoon opportunities.. Tell all,,, I am all ears! )

米乐龙
15-09-2008, 16:42
I'd be happy to PM you the story.

Look forward to it. Still scratching my head at how an apartment can be stolen... Anyway, I am sure I have some interesting reading ahead of me.


PS about the silver spoon opportunities.. Tell all,,, I am all ears! )

Developing economy, plenty of opportunities out there.

BeachBum
15-09-2008, 16:57
Look forward to it. Still scratching my head at how an apartment can be stolen... Anyway, I am sure I have some interesting reading ahead of me.



Developing economy, plenty of opportunities out there.
I pm'd you a nice tear-jerker! )

OuterSpace
15-09-2008, 17:09
Dear forum members..
we should be very carefull when we advise to this friend.Because these are life changing advises.
Would you be responsible if he would accept 3000 dollars without accomodation and come here and live in poor conditions with his family...


The fact is that most Russians have very good lives on a far smaller salary.

Because most of them have a apartment already and because of they are locals they know where they can find cheap food,clothes furniture etc...

And also because of we are expat some times we pay more to anything (it can be rent or any service) because locals think because of we are expat we might earn thousands of dollars in a months..


3K US per month is more than enough for you and your family unless you plan to live in the center and eat at the most expensive restaurants. Take the offer.

Do we live in same Moscow or not...

3000+accomodation would be enough but it depends how do you live of course.

I also work in IT Industry like you and i see some posts in Russian Job sites and for a expert like you with 12 years expriences they want at least 3000~4000 dollars per months.

Personally i dont suggest you to come to Moscow for only 3000 dollars without accomodation

ninatchka
15-09-2008, 17:24
You'd better like palmini and stale bread, living in a slum, traveling for hours on an over crowded metro and not going out more than once a month.

Beach Bum, you and I have a different definition of living... but your nic probably should have given that away

Excuse me!!!!!!! I happen to like пильмени....russian food hater! and have you ever considered the possibility that the chances of getting a $3000 dollar job in India are not very high a.k.a they a slim,skinny ,very very tiny :)
Although I do agree that with a $3000 job, you and your family will not bask in the laps of luxury and yes you will not live in the centre of Moscow. so if the reason you're taking this job is to aquire some sort of savings.......well i'll have to say its not the best move (in my opinion that is)

BeachBum
15-09-2008, 17:25
Dear forum members..
we should be very carefull when we advise to this friend.Because these are life changing advises.
Would you be responsible if he would accept 3000 dollars without accomodation and come here and live in poor conditions with his family...



Because most of them have a apartment already and because of they are locals they know where they can find cheap food,clothes furniture etc...

And also because of we are expat some times we pay more to anything (it can be rent or any service) because locals think because of we are expat we might earn thousands of dollars in a months..



Do we live in same Moscow or not...

3000+accomodation would be enough but it depends how do you live of course.

I also work in IT Industry like you and i see some posts in Russian Job sites and for a expert like you with 12 years expriences they want at least 3000~4000 dollars per months.

Personally i dont suggest you to come to Moscow for only 3000 dollars without accomodation
I think you are correct to advise carelful consideration on all counts... if I may also throw a little fuel to the fire. This gentelman is from India. I think all would agree that salaries in india are not even close to 3000 USD. And also general living conditions. But I have never been there so I dont really know.

So I guess he has to answer a few questions fro himself with our input/guidance:
1) What is his standard of living? and can he obtain that w or w/o russian cultural experience?
2) is the offered salary acceptable in terms of his level iof experience or does he have room for negotiation with respect to the RF market?

OuterSpace
15-09-2008, 17:38
As i understand yes he is indian but as i see in his profile he works in doha qatar so i do not think he gets salary as people gets in India..It must be more.

I do not know Qatar but in UAE they pay fantastic money for expats in IT Area..

Rif
16-09-2008, 15:19
I think you are correct to advise carelful consideration on all counts... if I may also throw a little fuel to the fire. This gentelman is from India. I think all would agree that salaries in india are not even close to 3000 USD. And also general living conditions. But I have never been there so I dont really know.

So I guess he has to answer a few questions fro himself with our input/guidance:
1) What is his standard of living? and can he obtain that w or w/o russian cultural experience?
2) is the offered salary acceptable in terms of his level iof experience or does he have room for negotiation with respect to the RF market?

I live in Doha - Qatar which is one of the fastest developing state of Middle east. I live quite a good life here and drawing Net USD 2000 + Accomodation,transportations,healthcare and paid yearly vacations.

To be honest We prefer moderate life style, We prefere homely made food and dining out once a week.

I Think there is some room for negotiation and I was seeking all useful advice from all of you to get the best bargain.

I really appreciate the way i am being guided here.

Thanks a lot to all of you