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Gypsy
11-09-2008, 23:08
Interesting that over on the other side in their 9/11 Thread there were no arguments and no self-aggrandising posts.

Bels
11-09-2008, 23:25
Interesting that over on the other side in their 9/11 Thread there were no arguments and no self-aggrandising posts.

I keep saying it all the time, we remembered, and we promised to fight terrorism. I also remember the BBC stating that in a few years , after the sympathies of many countries, that they will soon forget. And what did we get! Bush being made like a blunderer and war mongerer, yet he entered as president at a very difficult time, yet he had the promise of many countries to unite and fight terrorism, yet that promise was soon forgotten. Bush was criticised and Britains leader was called a puppet by a French president. Now what does that make the French look like? Hypocrites! As they most of all failed to keep their promise, and failed to keep their promise. Where were they!

BelgianSoviet
12-09-2008, 00:57
one generation ago, everybody knew the answer to the question "where were you when JFK was killed?"

our generation, everyone knows the answer to the question: "where were you on 9/11?"

i was in Nice (France) on holiday, lying on the beach, when suddenly rumours starting spreading, literally, like a wildfire among the beachgoing crowd: regardless of language, everyone quickly picked up the theme: " America...attack...serious"...

we rushed to our appartment which was close, and were looking at the TV, speechless-like. just in time to see number 2 hit.

i remember very well what i thought: " World war 3 has begun.

this may sound ridiculous now, but it sure was what it looked like and what many thought.


islamic fundamentalism is probably the one factor that can unite east & west, as its the bigger danger to our way of life. US, EU & Russia leaders all keep this in mind when bickering over "smaller" issues like trade quota & minor wars.

just my idea.

the day that the industrialized nations find their balls back and start doing some serious killing, right or wrong, will see us victorious. you may say im a barbarian, but a civilized man cant ever win from a barbarian thats willing to try any method to win.

we simply arent prepared to win "no matter what".

they are.

hence 9/11

Albertina
12-09-2008, 01:04
So much has been written, said, filmed during these 7 years, that on this anniversary you just want to remember and keep silent.

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 02:34
I keep saying it all the time, we remembered, and we promised to fight terrorism. I also remember the BBC stating that in a few years , after the sympathies of many countries, that they will soon forget. And what did we get! Bush being made like a blunderer and war mongerer, yet he entered as president at a very difficult time, yet he had the promise of many countries to unite and fight terrorism, yet that promise was soon forgotten. Bush was criticised and Britains leader was called a puppet by a French president. Now what does that make the French look like? Hypocrites! As they most of all failed to keep their promise, and failed to keep their promise. Where were they!

Bels, you know... Now they have more important adversary.


Instead of to fight terrorism with Russia... they prefer "to be on the knifes" with Russia and they prefer to be ready to start the new Cold War. (;


It's becoz they all are inborn imperialists and egoists... Kremlin, Washington, Paris and so on...

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 03:02
one generation ago, everybody knew the answer to the question "where were you when JFK was killed?"

our generation, everyone knows the answer to the question: "where were you on 9/11?"

i was in Nice (France) on holiday, lying on the beach, when suddenly rumours starting spreading, literally, like a wildfire among the beachgoing crowd: regardless of language, everyone quickly picked up the theme: " America...attack...serious"...

we rushed to our appartment which was close, and were looking at the TV, speechless-like. just in time to see number 2 hit.

i remember very well what i thought: " World war 3 has begun.

this may sound ridiculous now, but it sure was what it looked like and what many thought.


islamic fundamentalism is probably the one factor that can unite east & west, as its the bigger danger to our way of life. US, EU & Russia leaders all keep this in mind when bickering over "smaller" issues like trade quota & minor wars.

just my idea.

the day that the industrialized nations find their balls back and start doing some serious killing, right or wrong, will see us victorious. you may say im a barbarian, but a civilized man cant ever win from a barbarian thats willing to try any method to win.

we simply arent prepared to win "no matter what".

they are.

hence 9/11
You know while you were on the beach in Nice on that day thousands and thousands of african kids died from hunger or from HIV... But nobody worry about their death... all rotten western mass-media worry only about these a few thousands who died on that 11/09...


So I think that America deserved 11/09 with all her egoistic policy during many years.

Len Ganley Stance
12-09-2008, 07:44
So I think that America deserved 11/09 with all her egoistic policy during many years.

And I think that the above is one of the most idiotic things I've ever read on this Forum.

Gypsy
12-09-2008, 08:09
I keep saying it all the time, we remembered, and we promised to fight terrorism. I also remember the BBC stating that in a few years , after the sympathies of many countries, that they will soon forget. And what did we get! Bush being made like a blunderer and war mongerer, yet he entered as president at a very difficult time, yet he had the promise of many countries to unite and fight terrorism, yet that promise was soon forgotten. Bush was criticised and Britains leader was called a puppet by a French president. Now what does that make the French look like? Hypocrites! As they most of all failed to keep their promise, and failed to keep their promise. Where were they!
Can you supply one shred of evidence that the French failed to live up to their promise?

In addition to the intelligence support, which has been extensive,they offered the US a blank cheque for anything needed to capture the terrorists responsible for 9/11.

What else is it you would like them to have done?

Surfsup37
12-09-2008, 08:56
My understanding is that almost all intelligence agencies are working together under the scenes. Russia has been cooperating with the US, UK and others. The US and UK have provided intelligence to Russia. The French government has provided intelligence to the US. The working agencies mostly fly under the shouting and posturing by their governments. Fortunately or unfortunately, what governments say and what they do are usually two different things.

The Iraq war did destroy the consensuses at the top of government, but the intelligence agencies continued to work together. :thumbsup:

It is my understanding that the France intelligence agencies did provide important information to the US intelligence agencies.

Remember, "A divided house will not stand. "

Gypsy
12-09-2008, 09:16
My understanding is that almost all intelligence agencies are working together under the scenes. Russia has been cooperating with the US, UK and others. The US and UK have provided intelligence to Russia. The French government has provided intelligence to the US. The working agencies mostly fly under the shouting and posturing by their governments. Fortunately or unfortunately, what governments say and what they do are usually two different things.

The Iraq war did destroy the consensuses at the top of government, but the intelligence agencies continued to work together. :thumbsup:

It is my understanding that the France intelligence agencies did provide important information to the US intelligence agencies.

Remember, "A divided house will not stand. "
Indeed, a very close school friend of mine works in the international anti-terrorist agency you refer to in Florida, he is a Colonel in the Army. There is much much more co-operation between countries than we can believe if judged solely by the nonsense our "leaders" spout.

Bush's insults to the French because they would not support the UK/US illegal war certainly did not help -but the French continued doing everything they could in the fight against terrorism.

Surfsup37
12-09-2008, 09:40
Actually, a little known fact is that Islamic Fundamentalist first thought of crashing a plane into the Eifflel tower in 1994.

December 1994: Algerian terrorists hijacked an Air France airliner and threatened to fly it into the Eiffel Tower. The terrorists were killed when French commandos stormed the plane.

USATODAY.com - Report describes pre-Sept. 11 terrorist chatter (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2002-09-19-attacks-intelligence_x.htm)

Wodin
12-09-2008, 11:07
You know while you were on the beach in Nice on that day thousands and thousands of african kids died from hunger or from HIV... But nobody worry about their death... all rotten western mass-media worry only about these a few thousands who died on that 11/09...


So I think that America deserved 11/09 with all her egoistic policy during many years.

What a shocking, insensitive post! Irrespective of the politics, normal, decent human beings could be expected to show sympathy for the victims if nothing else. Nobody, except for the fundamentalist islamists would say that america, or anyone else for that matter, "deserved" 911.

That is the sort of statement I would expect from a 16 year old pimply kid with too much tostesterone. Not from somebody who claims to be a valuable member of society.

How would you feel Korotky, if somebody wrote that Russia deserved Beslan for instance?

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 15:43
1) What a shocking, insensitive post! Irrespective of the politics, normal, decent human beings could be expected to show sympathy for the victims if nothing else. Nobody, except for the fundamentalist islamists would say that america, or anyone else for that matter, "deserved" 911.

That is the sort of statement I would expect from a 16 year old pimply kid with too much tostesterone. Not from somebody who claims to be a valuable member of society.

2) How would you feel Korotky, if somebody wrote that Russia deserved Beslan for instance?

1) How can you know that I haven't sympathy for the victims ? Of course I do...

But I meant quite other thing in my post. I wonder why so many people hate America and the americans never think about why it is ? And it's really strange that the american government is sure that they can murder the islamic fundamentalists and it is their bloody right but the fundamentalists don't have the right to kill the americans in answer.

During a long period of time Israel occupies East Cost of Iordan River and if not american support to Israel... Israel's millitary actions never to be so successful...

And after all these killings of arabic people the simple-hearted americans even don't know why these arabic fundamentalists hate them so much...

Israel bombs Liban... it's okey... but when the arabic militants strike back it's declared as a war crime.

The notions of "justice" and "genocide", "human rights" and "war crimes" become the objects of manipulation of the american and russian state propaganda.




2) Of course the russians deserved Bestlan for the crimes of russian army in Chechnia. Everybody who is not under influence of russian state propoganda here knows it.

Russian army killed a lot of civilians in Chechnia in 1992-1998 and the chechens decided to make the awfull answer to the russians for that.

I can only repeat... Russia deserved Bestlan and America deserved 11/09 for all crimes that the russian and american armies... CIA, Mosad and KGB commited.

There must be justice... If great powers kill the people, they shoud be ready to get the strike back.


I feel the deep sympathy for victims of 11/09. But I feel the same deep sympathy for the victims of russian and american bombs in Chechnia, Iraq and Afganistan.

------------------------------------------
You reap what you saw

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 16:07
And I even don't speak about the well-known fact that Al Queda itself was created by CIA to fight the russian millitary forces in Afganistan in 1980s and that Usama Ben Laden himself was the CIA agent during very long period of time... I wonder maybe the americans even don't know it !?

CIA tought Ben Laden how to make the terroristic actions against the russian forces in Afganistan... but ten years past and Usama have got out of amerian control and at once their own agent became the terrorist Number One in the world.


" С первых лет Афганской войны Бин Ладен поддерживал тесные связи с американскими и пакистанскими спецслужбами. В свою очередь руководство Саудовской Аравии, решив активно содействовать сопротивлению афганских моджахедов, обратились именно к его семейству, которое было приближено к трону. И бин Ладена назначили представителем королевства в Афганистане. По свидетельству знакомых с ним афганцев, начало его карьеры было также тесно связано с саудовскими спецслужбами.[10] " Заглавная страница — Википедия (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki)


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You reap what you saw

MissAnnElk
12-09-2008, 16:35
So I think that America deserved 11/09 with all her egoistic policy during many years.

I cannot believe I am reading this. You've sat at my table. No one deserves that.

How would you feel if I said Russians deserved 2002 Nord-Oest siege? Or the Beslan massacre?

Please.

No one deserves these things. No one.

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 16:44
I cannot believe I am reading this. You've sat at my table. No one deserves that.

How would you feel if I said Russians deserved 2002 Nord-Oest siege? Or the Beslan massacre?

Please.

No one deserves these things. No one. Maybe "deserves" is too strong word.

But if the chechen militants killed me in Moscow in 90s it could be that it is the guilty of the russian government and russian awfull policy in Chechnia in 90s.

The same thing goes with 11/09...

Imagine that I was in Nord-Ost in that day... And chechen militants killed me or russian KGB's officers liberated me from life with gas there...




Can I be responsible for the russian war crimes in Chechnia ? I think I was...



I think that I was responsible for these crimes becoz I was too passive and I never protested against this colonial war in Chechnia.



Maybe I must use not the word "deserves" but the phrase " they are to some extent responsible...".


It's the american support of Israel and of it's military crimes was that what made the muslim radicals mad... That's what I meant in my first post in this thread.

MissAnnElk
12-09-2008, 17:15
It's the american support of Israel and of it's military crimes was that what made the muslim radicals mad... That's what I meant in my first post in this thread.

When the planes hit the buildings that was my first thought.

With all due respect, KG, you and I have had this type of conversation before (if you remember our "wandering Jew" discussion). I was convinced, CONVINCED that I was reading the words of an anti-Semite. We went on for quite some time before I was able to figure out what you meant. Meanwhile, I was so angry that my hands were shaking.

Your English is good. But there are land mines everywhere. If you are going to make these bold statements, be sure, BE DOUBLY SURE you are accurate. I would rather discuss these things off-line than be party to a conversation that, inadvertently or not, fills the world with more hate.

Life is too hard to take on extra negativity.

This isn't fun anymore.

timmytat
12-09-2008, 19:01
You know while you were on the beach in Nice on that day thousands and thousands of african kids died from hunger or from HIV... But nobody worry about their death... all rotten western mass-media worry only about these a few thousands who died on that 11/09...


So I think that America deserved 11/09 with all her egoistic policy during many years.

I am American and that is the most idiotic thing I have ever heard...
EDITED

Wodin
12-09-2008, 19:34
And I even don't speak about the well-known fact that Al Queda itself was created by CIA to fight the russian millitary forces in Afganistan in 1980s and that Usama Ben Laden himself was the CIA agent during very long period of time... I wonder maybe the americans even don't know it !?

CIA tought Ben Laden how to make the terroristic actions against the russian forces in Afganistan... but ten years past and Usama have got out of amerian control and at once their own agent became the terrorist Number One in the world.


" С первых лет Афганской войны Бин Ладен поддерживал тесные связи с американскими и пакистанскими спецслужбами. В свою очередь руководство Саудовской Аравии, решив активно содействовать сопротивлению афганских моджахедов, обратились именно к его семейству, которое было приближено к трону. И бин Ладена назначили представителем королевства в Афганистане. По свидетельству знакомых с ним афганцев, начало его карьеры было также тесно связано с саудовскими спецслужбами.[10] " Заглавная страница — Википедия (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki)


------------------------------------------
You reap what you saw

Correction...they were fighting the Soviet communist forces....

pullar
12-09-2008, 19:36
I think Gennady is not being negative. He is drawing attention to a fundamental point that the powers that be all too often license themselves to use whatever force seems good to them against whomsoever, and to hell with the destructive consequences. And if some state so acts, then it must be prepared to put up with whatever happens next. In some cases that has been vicious reprisals in the name of those who were killed, maimed, or made homeless through the indiscriminate, destructive violence of war.

Gennady has pointed to examples of both Russian and American thuggery. He says that no government or people can expect or demand that those who have suffered extreme violence should never think they are entitled to pay back, with interest or not. His is a very salutary comment on the reality of pursuing "politics by other means."

MissAnnElk
12-09-2008, 19:38
And this is why I continue to speak to him. Perhaps I shouldn't.

I can't say I know him well, but I know him well enough to know that he doesn't always articulate exactly what he means. AND he is enough of a loose canon sometimes that those who do not know him may seriously misinterpret.

I defend you, KG. Don't disappoint me.

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 20:25
I think Gennady is not being negative. He is drawing attention to a fundamental point that the powers that be all too often license themselves to use whatever force seems good to them against whomsoever, and to hell with the destructive consequences. And if some state so acts, then it must be prepared to put up with whatever happens next. In some cases that has been vicious reprisals in the name of those who were killed, maimed, or made homeless through the indiscriminate, destructive violence of war.

Gennady has pointed to examples of both Russian and American thuggery. He says that no government or people can expect or demand that those who have suffered extreme violence should never think they are entitled to pay back, with interest or not. His is a very salutary comment on the reality of pursuing "politics by other means."And I drew your attention to the other thing too... Nobody wants to understand what really goes on in the world. Many people blindly support the policy of their governments. The russians support policy of Putin and the americans support policy of Bush. So any critics of american policy are unacceptable here from the side of the american expats. And almost every post of the americans proves it.

So i didn't get the answer why do the muslims hate America so much that they are ready to blow up yourselves to kill so much americans as they can ?

I know what evil the russian government did to the chechens but what evil did the american government do to the muslims ? Why nobody asks yourself about it here ?

These people whom russian and american governments call "terrorists"... they are sure that they fight for freedom and for justice too so why doesn't nobody want to understand what they want ?

AndreyS
12-09-2008, 20:50
And this is why I continue to speak to him. Perhaps I shouldn't.

I can't say I know him well, but I know him well enough to know that he doesn't always articulate exactly what he means. AND he is enough of a loose canon sometimes that those who do not know him may seriously misinterpret.

I defend you, KG. Don't disappoint me.

.

pullar
12-09-2008, 20:51
Life is too hard to take on extra negativity.

This isn't fun anymore.

War has never been fun. How do you think that Iraqis felt when their loved ones were bombed to death by Shock and Awe? Do you believe they thought they deserved that?

MissAnnElk
12-09-2008, 20:53
War has never been fun. How do you think that Iraqis felt when their loved ones were bombed to death by Shock and Awe? Do you believe they thought they deserved that?

I was unclear. I meant the forum isn't fun lately. :11030:

Korotky Gennady
12-09-2008, 21:08
Correction...they were fighting the Soviet communist forces....What is the difference ?

According to the logic of that kind the soviet soldiers were wrong when they fought against the muslims there but the american soldiers are right when they do the same now in the same mountains ? It's just absurd... Either both superpowers are wrong in Afganistan or the both superpowers are right there.

Bels
12-09-2008, 21:19
Can you supply one shred of evidence that the French failed to live up to their promise?

In addition to the intelligence support, which has been extensive,they offered the US a blank cheque for anything needed to capture the terrorists responsible for 9/11.

What else is it you would like them to have done?

Joined them in Afghanistan and Iraq, as I believe the intelligence was accurate at that particular time. Ok, a lot covered on other threads have other opinions, but I believe the moves were right at hat particular time, just because they didn't find the evidence they wanted was unfortunate. But it was there. Intelligence says so.

Russia says they still want to unite with America in the fighting of the terrorism issue, but unfortunately I don't think they are fighting hard enough on money laundering within their own country, so I don't know what they are talking about. You can purchase property in Russia without restrictions, you got the cash, you got the property. This system doesn't work in Britain for example., you got the cash, where's your passport and other forms of identity? And where the evidence from bank statements and other forms of evidence where you have got the money.

Bels
12-09-2008, 21:37
What is the difference ?

According to the logic of that kind the soviet soldiers were wrong when they fought against the muslims there but the american soldiers are right when they do the same now in the same mountains ? It's just absurd... Either both superpowers are wrong in Afganistan or the both superpowers are right there.

Ok mistakes were made, and specialist British troops trained possibly Bin laden's small forces against Russians. There was a BBC tv documentary I remember well at that particular time, where British soldiers guided "Freedom fighters", to bring down a Russian helicopter, from some form of a rocket propelled gun. This was the beginning of the end of the Russians withdrawing from Afghanistan.

TGP
12-09-2008, 22:01
Correction...they were fighting the Soviet communist forces....

Do you mean that terroristic actions against the Soviet communist forces are good, and terroristic actions against any other forces are bad?

Whatever you mean, the boomerang law has worked.

TGP
12-09-2008, 22:07
These people whom russian and american governments call "terrorists"... they are sure that they fight for freedom and for justice too so why doesn't nobody want to understand what they want ?

KG, do not romanticize terrorists too much. There are a lot of mercenaries among them who would fight whomever and whatever for the sake of money.

Judge
12-09-2008, 23:01
KG, do not romanticize terrorists too much. There are a lot of mercenaries among them who would fight whomever and whatever for the sake of money.

That's true about mercenaries(the money part) ,but I would say that about 90% of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is done by hardcore fighters who believe that the western forces are evil and are only there to take their land.

TGP
12-09-2008, 23:05
That's true about mercenaries(the money part) ,but I would say that about 90% of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is done by hardcore fighters who believe that the western forces are evil and are only there to take their land.

Ain't they (90%) right? :ignore: :10600:

In my post I referred to terrorists in general, not only Iraq and Afghanistan.

Judge
12-09-2008, 23:14
Ain't they (90%) right? :ignore: :10600:

In my post I referred to terrorists in general, not only Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'm talking about the fighters in the Middle East,isn't that where all the nasty people are hiding?

They(90%) are protecting their own country from foreign invaders .The west took it upon themselves to try and change the way these people live.
Like KG said before,''they are sure that they fight for freedom and for justice too so why doesn't nobody want to understand what they want'' ?
Nobody asked these people what they wanted,nobody cares,but the western war machine keeps turning and will keep on turning until it is time to stop.
I wont go into detail about when this war machine will stop because I don't want to scare anyone on a Friday night.:focus::focus:

Gypsy
12-09-2008, 23:52
I'm talking about the fighters in the Middle East,isn't that where all the nasty people are hiding?

They(90%) are protecting their own country from foreign invaders .The west took it upon themselves to try and change the way these people live.
Like KG said before,''they are sure that they fight for freedom and for justice too so why doesn't nobody want to understand what they want'' ?
Nobody asked these people what they wanted,nobody cares,but the western war machine keeps turning and will keep on turning until it is time to stop.
I wont go into detail about when this war machine will stop because I don't want to scare anyone on a Friday night.:focus::focus:
No Judge the western war machine does not keep turning - and it is not "the west" To the best of my knowledge most western countries, were against the war in Iraq, and refused to take part, and even the majority of people in the countries that took part (US excepted) were against it too.

DJ Biscuit
13-09-2008, 00:02
and even the majority of people in the countries that took part (US excepted) were against it too.

I still am!

:)

DDT
13-09-2008, 00:03
So i didn't get the answer why do the muslims hate America so much that they are ready to blow up yourselves to kill so much americans as they can ?It doesn't matter. Muslims need to address their grievances in another way.






I know what evil the russian government did to the chechens but what evil did the american government do to the muslims ? Why nobody asks yourself about it here ?It doesn't matter. Muslims need to address their grievances in another way.




These people whom russian and american governments call "terrorists"... they are sure that they fight for freedom and for justice too so why doesn't nobody want to understand what they want ?
They fight for the freedom to impose slavery. Those who know right from wrong don't have a problem understanding what they want.

Judge
13-09-2008, 00:08
No Judge the western war machine does not keep turning - and it is not "the west" To the best of my knowledge most western countries, were against the war in Iraq, and refused to take part, and even the majority of people in the countries that took part (US excepted) were against it too.
Da..

The west being ,America and its allies.
Many didn't agree with the war in these countries,but nobody listens to the people.All these marches and protests are for nothing.
The war machine started because of 9/11 and wont stop until it's fulfilled its mission.

Judge
13-09-2008, 00:14
]It doesn't matter. Muslims need to address their grievances in another way.
It would help if they didn't have anything to grieve about in the first place.





It doesn't matter. Muslims need to address their grievances in another way.

It would help if they didn't have anything to grieve about in the first place.


Have you ever stood back and thought about the fact that many people are dieing for something they never started.

Transparent Theatre
13-09-2008, 00:58
It doesn't matter..

Yes, it damn well DOES matter!


:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

BelgianSoviet
13-09-2008, 01:34
Of course the russians deserved Bestlan for the crimes of russian army in Chechnia. Everybody who is not under influence of russian state propoganda here knows it. You reap what you saw

i can say im not under the influence of russian state propaganda, trust me.
i do however feel that Chechnya, historically, belongs to Russia, as does Kosovo belongs to Serbia

that however does not justify killing children. 2 wrongs dont make a right

i know the Army did some pretty evil things in chechnya, but usually its not only there call: if terrorists would come out in the open and fight, civilians wouldnt get hurt in the first place! by choosing this way of action, they ensure civilians get killed, thus hoping for new recruits & a wider base of support - things are not easy as you think....

BelgianSoviet
13-09-2008, 01:37
I think that I was responsible for these crimes becoz I was too passive and I never protested against this colonial war in Chechnia.

you'd belong in western europe. lots of people like you here.

and im not making a compliment.

xSnoofovich
13-09-2008, 21:42
That's true about mercenaries(the money part) ,but I would say that about 90% of the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is done by hardcore fighters who believe that the western forces are evil and are only there to take their land.

Yea ok. The first step in knowing the books are cooked are when people throw out numbers like 90%.

You wanna know how? Just ask. You will like the answer.

xSnoofovich
13-09-2008, 21:46
You know while you were on the beach in Nice on that day thousands and thousands of african kids died from hunger or from HIV... But nobody worry about their death... all rotten western mass-media worry only about these a few thousands who died on that 11/09...

.

Show me anywhere, anywhere, where RUSSIA GIVES MONEY TO OTHER COUNTIES FOR AID.

What Georgia ?

Don't give me that sh1t. Do you know that * ALL * government employees * NOT * from Moscow were forced to give up a month's salary, to give to SO?

Seriously, Muscovites are so selfrighteous, and so ignorant of the * REAL RUSSIA *

xSnoofovich
13-09-2008, 21:50
Can I be responsible for the russian war crimes in Chechnia ? I think I was...



I think that I was responsible for these crimes becoz I was too passive and I never protested against this colonial war in Chechnia.



.

Russia had every right to go and fight a war in a seperatist region. You can't divide an empire. Besides, at the time, there were other regions that also were thinking of independance. If you let one go, the others will follow.

xSnoofovich
13-09-2008, 21:54
What is the difference ?



In case you forgot. Russia wasn't the only country in the Soviet Union.

SO - the action wasn't directly against RUSSIA.

Zephyr
14-09-2008, 00:36
KG, do not romanticize terrorists too much. There are a lot of mercenaries among them who would fight whomever and whatever for the sake of money.

Um, sort of like American "contractors " in Iraq ?

xSnoofovich
14-09-2008, 00:49
Um, sort of like American "contractors " in Iraq ?

So - you are Anti-American.

That could explain your other threads on how America, and the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket.

I guess time will tell.

pjw
14-09-2008, 00:53
So - you are Anti-American.

That could explain your other threads on how America, and the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket.

I guess time will tell.

Sorry to but in, but a neutral comment about "contractors" in Iraq does not mean Anti-American. I cannot believe our total willingness to label eachother and put them in boxes :badclown:

Transparent Theatre
14-09-2008, 01:00
So - you are Anti-American.

.

It is baseless and unfair to suggest that failure to support the methodology of the Iraq War makes people "anti-American".

You have a huge chip on your shoulder, frankly.

I like Americans and number them among my friends. I just despise the Iraq War.

Being a Brit, this is quite an easy thing to get my head around - I despise that self-same war in Iraq, but I don't despise all my fellow Brits because of it.

You should try it some time?

xSnoofovich
14-09-2008, 01:00
Sorry to but in, but a neutral comment about "contractors" in Iraq does not mean Anti-American. I cannot believe our total willingness to label eachother and put them in boxes :badclown:

You are right !

There are many private contractors in Iraq. But to randomly choose American contractors is.............well, ?

xSnoofovich
14-09-2008, 01:03
It is baseless and unfair to suggest that failure to support the methodology of the Iraq War makes people "anti-American".

You have a huge chip on your shoulder, frankly.

I like Americans and number them among my friends. I just despise the Iraq War.

Being a Brit, this is quite an easy thing to get my head around - I despise that self-same war in Iraq, but I don't despise all my fellow Brits because of it.

You should try it some time?

No, I am not the one to have a chip on my shoulder. Read my post above this one.

Thanks for the heads up though. And for not really analyzing the response. If you were really open minded, you would have thought the same thing.

As in, wait, there are many contractors there, not just Americans.

But since it's cool to hate America now, I guess I can see where you are coming from.

pjw
14-09-2008, 01:09
Would you please get it. We're not Anti-America. We are anti-contractor because without the 10s of thousands of contractors there could be no Iraq war with only normal troops.

Korotky Gennady
17-09-2008, 03:12
So - you are Anti-American.

That could explain your other threads on how America, and the world is going to go to hell in a handbasket.

I guess time will tell.Many countreis are in basket now... So we have nothing to lose.

Judge
17-09-2008, 09:46
What do you guys mean by contractors ,people working in Iraq,like building roads,hospitals,truck drivers???

xSnoofovich
17-09-2008, 11:32
I like Americans and number them among my friends. (BUT)....... .

Is that like saying - One of my best friends is black, so it is ok for me to say this.......

Sidney Bliss
17-09-2008, 11:36
Is that like saying - One of my best friends is black, so it is ok for me to say this.......

It's nothing of the sort.

El_Desaparecido
17-09-2008, 12:22
So seven years passed since yet another tragic event in history.
I did see the same pictures on TV as everybody else and I felt the same sadness for the victims along with a suspicion that this will turn even uglier.
However I am tired of the way this event is presented as almost the only act of hostility in the last 50 years, I am tired of all this "the world has changed"-speeches and the division in a "pre-" and "post-9/11-world".

Terrorism is not a new problem, as fundamentalism is. It has been there for decades and lots of countries had to deal with it one way or another.
The world has changed? Why? Because some crazy bastards managed to cross the pond?
The world has not changed because of 9/11, some leaders have chosen to change the rules for their own interest and this sad day came in handy to supress any opposition.

Before somebody comes up with the "anti-american" sledge hammer, think of how many Americans would still be alive or would still have their physical integrity if the reaction would have been more realistic.

Len Ganley Stance
17-09-2008, 12:32
What do you guys mean by contractors ,people working in Iraq,like building roads,hospitals,truck drivers???

Not exactly. It's all a rather murky business. Here's a couple of links........

DynCorp International — Aviation, Contingency, Logistics, Law Enforcement & Security, Infrastructure, and Maritime (http://www.dyn-intl.com/)

Blackwater USA (http://www.blackwaterusa.com/)

Blackwater is allegedly owned by Erik Prince who worked in George H Bush's office when he was President. Which will probably give you some idea of what they're about.

Both companies and there's probably a few more are official US Government Contractors. Draw you own conclusions. It's not too difficult.

Korotky Gennady
17-09-2008, 18:12
Russia had every right to go and fight a war in a seperatist region. You can't divide an empire. Besides, at the time, there were other regions that also were thinking of independance. If you let one go, the others will follow. Yeah. And it will be the right thing of course if all regions will get their independence. What's wrong with it ? Every nation has its right to be independent. Big one and small one without exception.

And Russia must not be a jail for the other nations.


And the time of empires has gone. No one except our rulers needs Empire.


I don't need Empire. My father and mother don't need it also. And my kids don't...


Only Putin, Medvedev, other bosses and generals need it.

Common workers don't need it. Common workers need good salaries and low prices in the first turn.

Korotky Gennady
17-09-2008, 18:31
Show me anywhere, anywhere, where RUSSIA GIVES MONEY TO OTHER COUNTIES FOR AID.

What Georgia ?

Don't give me that sh1t. Do you know that * ALL * government employees * NOT * from Moscow were forced to give up a month's salary, to give to SO?

Seriously, Muscovites are so selfrighteous, and so ignorant of the * REAL RUSSIA *

It's bad that Russia doesn't help african counries to fight AID. It's very bad..


Why did you ask about Georgia ? I never heard that Georgia helps them too.

And I never heard about the russian government employees have been forced to give up a month's salary... First time I hear about it. It's impossible.

xSnoofovich
17-09-2008, 20:22
It's bad that Russia doesn't help african counries to fight AID. It's very bad..


Why did you ask about Georgia ? I never heard that Georgia helps them too.

And I never heard about the russian government employees have been forced to give up a month's salary... First time I hear about it. It's impossible.

I mis-typed. I meant AID, as in help to other countries when they are in trouble, like hurricanes or ?

Again, I mis-typed, I meant to say South Ossetia. About giving up the month's salary? Nope, it wasn't even a choice !