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Fayez
30-08-2008, 09:04
El Salam Alaikom
I am Fayez from Jordan,I am a native arabic speaker,i can teach Koran lessons.Arabic language also.Literature arabia language for Koran.If any one in interested contact me.

DDT
30-08-2008, 12:03
Edited by admin - Insulting other members

DDT - You received a warning for this

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 12:25
And you can learn to be a True Christian here:
Landover Baptist | Where the Worthwhile Worship. Unsaved Unwelcome. (http://www.landoverbaptist.org/)

Gypsy
30-08-2008, 12:51
Hi! I can teach Koran too! Mohammed sent me the address to his Official Web-site to make finding out about him easy. Here's the link, baby:
The Official Website of the Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Me) (http://www.prophetmohammed.co.uk/index.html)
That was incredibly rude.

There is a huge difference between someone making an open offer in the Religion folder -as the first poster has done - and proselytising on open forum, which you do.

He is not trying to ram his religion down anyone's throat, just saying if you want to learn about it here I am. Take it or not.

But I suppose your spiteful little gibe made you happy.

DDT
30-08-2008, 13:19
That was incredibly rude.

There is a huge difference between someone making an open offer in the Religion folder -as the first poster has done - and proselytizing on open forum, which you do.

He is not trying to ram his religion down anyone's throat, just saying if you want to learn about it here I am. Take it or not.



And I am not proselytizing either and I also offered to teach about Koran.

If you knew more about it you would see that it is not so much a religion as it is a geo-political movement.

This forum is for Religion. If you can't stand the water....then get out!

RhythMasteR
30-08-2008, 13:19
Hi! I can teach Koran too! Mohammed sent me the address to his Official Web-site to make finding out about him easy. Here's the link, baby:
The Official Website of the Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Me) (http://www.prophetmohammed.co.uk/index.html)

What are you trying to do? And also who are you giving some link like this? What is your purpose??

What you have done was soo rude, I would show you what you deserve but I will not come to your level !

Edit: Coz kharon asked me to, I erased the picture....

kharon
30-08-2008, 13:19
Hi! I can teach Koran too! Mohammed sent me the address to his Official Web-site to make finding out about him easy. Here's the link, baby:
The Official Website of the Prophet Mohammed (Peace Be Upon Me) (http://www.prophetmohammed.co.uk/index.html)

hey what are you trying to do!!!

this is an open offer you like it or not it depends on you.
but this does not give you the right to making fun of a religion!

I am not sure that you will be punished for that or not
but you should apologize at least.

kharon
30-08-2008, 13:22
And I am not proselytizing either and I also offered to teach about Koran.

If you knew more about it you would see that it is not so much a religion as it is a geo-political movement.

This forum is for Religion. If you can't stand the water....then get out!

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO SAY SOMEONE "GET OUT" ???
STOP PROVOKING PEOPLE

RhythMasteR
30-08-2008, 13:27
And I am not proselytizing either and I also offered to teach about Koran.

If you knew more about it you would see that it is not so much a religion as it is a geo-political movement.

This forum is for Religion. If you can't stand the water....then get out!

Ohh, you will come and make fun out of my religion like this, and because this is a Religion Topic, I should be quite haa?? If you think that, these kind of things "geo-political movement", write it to their sites, or pm them. But you are doing like this, and it is NOT RIGHT AT ALL !

I will not let anyone touch ANY RELIGION in this way !!!

Wtf !!!

DDT
30-08-2008, 13:40
hey what are you trying to do!!!

this is an open offer you like it or not it depends on you.
but this does not give you the right to making fun of a religion!



Show me how it is a religion when it was spread solely by Mohammed in a conquest by war in no less than 27 battles. The defeated if not killed, were given a choice to convert to Mohammed's rule or die, other 'lucky' ones were forced to pay tax for not converting. After the land was conquered a theocratic government was set up. Countries such as some in the Indies were converted through econnomics. Even today Islam is about conquest of land and changing and overhauling the political systems of the areas it spreads to.

A true religion works inwardly changing a person's character.
Mohammed is the example for Muslims, but Mohammed was a conqueror.

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 13:49
A true religion works inwardly changing a person's character.


And you are a shining example of what?

kharon
30-08-2008, 13:51
Show me how it is a religion when it was spread solely by Mohammed in a conquest by war in no less than 27 battles. The defeated if not killed, were given a choice to convert to Mohammed's rule or die, other 'lucky' ones were forced to pay tax for not converting. After the land was conquered a theocratic government was set up. Countries such as some in the Indies were converted through econnomics. Even today Islam is about conquest of land and changing and overhauling the political systems of the areas it spreads to.

A true religion works inwardly changing a person's character.
Mohammed is the example for Muslims, but Mohammed was a conqueror.

hey these are your ideas
or what you are instructed upto now!

but at the same time these issues are very sensitive not to share in such a place!

on the other hand what about crusades!?
war is inevitable when it comes to religion!

stop provoking people otherwise another war will begin also here.

and please(for the last time) delete your link
and keep your ideas to you.

DDT
30-08-2008, 14:21
hey these are your ideas
or what you are instructed upto now!

but at the same time these issues are very sensitive not to share in such a place! This forum is called "religion" This is exactly the place for this.


on the other hand what about crusades!?
The crusades happened centuries AFTER Mohammed slaughtered innocent people. Mohammed Personally led his murderers. The crusaders were not personally led by Jesus or any other prophet in history.



and please(for the last time) delete your link
and keep your ideas to you.
Why should I delete my link. It shows links to news worthy articles . Is this how Islam is spread? By silencing me or it's opposition the way Mohammed's assassins killed his detractors and poets? Would you like me to post links to articles from Haddith with the descriptions of the murder and the praise by Mohammed?

kharon
30-08-2008, 15:05
I really dont know what you are trying to do.

you have problems with muslims?
maybe you had ""a bad experience"" with one of them...

dont want to explain more about the experience you most probably had
since here is religion part not the adult one!

go and play in your simple and small world.

MissAnnElk
30-08-2008, 15:07
El Salam Alaikom
I am Fayez from Jordan,I am a native arabic speaker,i can teach Koran lessons.Arabic language also.Literature arabia language for Koran.If any one in interested contact me.

All poor, new Fayez said was "I can teach Koran lessons." He also offered Arabic language and literature tutoring. Let's not jump to conclusions here.

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 15:21
The crusaders were not personally led by Jesus or any other prophet in history.

A True Christian is personally led by Jesus.......or, so they believe.

DJ Biscuit
30-08-2008, 15:23
A True Christian is personally led by Jesus.......or, so they believe.

Don't get me started on christians.

:)

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 15:34
Who would Jesus bomb?

Gypsy
30-08-2008, 15:36
Don't get me started on christians.

:)
I remember being taught that being a christian was superior because of its alleged tolerance.

DDT is an active example of precisely that: certainly no subscriber to Hall's dictum of defending to the death the right of someone to express their opinions.

DJ Biscuit
30-08-2008, 15:39
I see, so this god thing is selective then. Not so much love everyone just the 'superior ones.'

Gypsy
30-08-2008, 15:41
Who would Jesus bomb?
That depends on who you ask.

DJ Biscuit
30-08-2008, 15:41
I mean if we take an enormous leap and huge willing suspension of disbelief and just for a moment suppose that god created us and as it's testified created us all equal in his image then how can some be more superior to others?...

Gypsy
30-08-2008, 15:49
I mean if we take an enormous leap and huge willing suspension of disbelief and just for a moment suppose that god created us and as it's testified created us all equal in his image then how can some be more superior to others?...
Christianity does not work if you ask questions - you know that.

DJ Biscuit
30-08-2008, 15:52
Christianity does not work if you ask questions - you know that.

I do but. If only more people asked questions....

MissAnnElk
30-08-2008, 15:54
Christianity does not work if you ask questions - you know that.

It's called F A I T H.

Gypsy
30-08-2008, 16:02
It's called F A I T H.
I know Elkers - but wouldn't it be nice if those who had it did not have the blind variety and would tolerate the views of others?

DDT
30-08-2008, 16:19
Again, I see the topic is Koran, but the liberals on this forum want to turn it into the topic of Christians. When will you ever learn?

I will address any questions or speculations on the history of Mohammad but ignore any references to any other religions....other than those directly related to those killed by Mohammed.

But for now I will be quiet for a while and see if my new friends even come back to play!

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 16:20
But for now I will be quiet for a while and see if my new friends even come back to play!

Good on ya, Sheila!

kharon
30-08-2008, 16:31
Again, I see the topic is Koran, but the liberals on this forum want to turn it into the topic of Christians. When will you ever learn?

I will address any questions or speculations on the history of Mohammad but ignore any references to any other religions....other than those directly related to those killed by Mohammed.

But for now I will be quiet for a while and see if my new friends even come back to play!

haha you are really funny man!!!

you are looking for a new crusade ?? and waiting for support?

no one in the forum is as obsessive as you!

DDT
30-08-2008, 16:33
Originally Posted by DDT


The crusaders were not personally led by Jesus or any other prophet in history


A True Christian is personally led by Jesus.......or, so they believe.
Ok I'll just address this. You have proved my point here, thank you! The Crusades were not led by Jesus or true Christians. jesus didn't lead wars or tell anyone else to do so on his behalf.

Now can we get back to Mohammed

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 16:45
Jesus would not advocate economic sanctions which kill children.
He would not advocate Shock and Awe.
He would not advocate Chicago School economics.
He would not advocate privatised health care.
He would not exploit the poor, or feed off the weak.
He would not execute mentally defective people.
He would not carry a weapon.....

Gypsy
30-08-2008, 17:33
Originally Posted by DDT
Ok I'll just address this. You have proved my point here, thank you! The Crusades were not led by Jesus or true Christians. jesus didn't lead wars or tell anyone else to do so on his behalf.
Now can we get back to Mohammed
OK you seem to have as much difficulty with logic as you do with basic english.

Had you been remotely polite to Fayez you would not find people writing in support of him.

Read his post. To help you I have copied it below.Where did he ask for a discussion about Islam?

El Salam Alaikom
I am Fayez from Jordan,I am a native arabic speaker,i can teach Koran lessons.Arabic language also.Literature arabia language for Koran.If any one in interested contact me.He just made a kind offer to help teach anyone who was interested.

Your zeal to attack each and every manifestation of Islam may win you points at the christian tight-arse club; it doesn't here. You are just rude.

kharon
30-08-2008, 17:40
OK you seem to have as much difficulty with logic as you do with basic english.

Had you been remotely polite to Fayez you would not find people writing in support of him.

Read his post. To help you I have copied it below.Where did he ask for a discussion about Islam?
He just made a kind offer to help teach anyone who was interested.

Your zeal to attack each and every manifestation of Islam may win you points at the christian tight-arse club it doesn't here. You are just rude.

nothing to say more!!!

MickeyTong
30-08-2008, 18:27
From Dar-ul-uloom Deoband, India - who are seriously, unequivocally 100% fundamentalist Islam:
Darul Uloom - Deoband (India) (http://darululoom-deoband.com/english/index.htm)

The Prophet (Pbuh) has strictly forbid assassination in a brutal and painful manner. Likewise animals too should not be killed in that manner. Passengers of hijacked planes and persons taken hostage too, suffer in the same manner. Hijacking too is a threat to peace and freedom so it has no support in the Islamic Shariah. Such acts done, even with the most noble and great cause in mind have no justification under Islamic jurisprudence.

Any terrorist activity, which targets innocent persons, is against the concept of Divine Compassion and peace, which are synonyms in Islam.

The great authority on the interpretation of Islam, Ibn-e-Kaseer may be cited in support of the view. He said that none should be forced to embrace Islam. The logic in support of Islam is crystal clear; the arguments in its support do not require that anybody should be compelled to adopt Islam. He has expressed the view while explaining the verse from Surah Al Kafiroon. According to Islam blasphemy, infidelity, and paganism are heinous and unpardonable crimes. However, reviling the practices and worship of anything other than Allah has been forbidden. Verse 108 of Surah Al-Inaam makes it clear, "Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah. "

The Prophet (pubh) declared that the protest of the victim of atrocity, irrespective of his creed and religion has the prospect of being heard by Allah.

According to Shariah, the Prophet (Pbuh) has urged the help of neighbors. It is not necessary that the neighbor be a Muslim. It is enough that he is neighbor. The Islamic State assures the security of life and property. It also guarantees religious, economic, commercial and educational freedom for Non-Muslim subjects. Islamic Shariah does not permit discrimination between Muslim and Non-Muslim in the matters of security of life and property. According to Imam Abu Yusuf, harassing a Non-Muslim of Islamic State invites Divine Wrath. (Kitab-ul-Khiraj, pp125)

Under the regime of Hazrat Umar a treaty was executed with the people of Quds that provided for security of life and property as well as protection of the church, the cross and other religious symbols. Assurance was given that there shall be no interference in the affairs of the Church. The churches will not be demolished or desecrated, the cross shall not be taken away or the funds seized. There shall be no force or compulsion in the affairs of religion. Nobody shall be harassed. (Tarikh-e-Tabari, Part IlL pp 609)

It is well known that the concept of Jehad is subject to certain conditions. Jehad is meant for upholding the uprightness of the Word of Allah, for the victory of the suppressed, for safeguarding the places of worship and for defence against the aggression and atrocities of the tyrants. It is not meant for eliminating other religions, destruction of their places of worship or unwarranted massacre of Non-Muslims. For propagation and acceptance of its teachings Islam recommends interesting and suitable form of preaching, persuasion and discussion.

In Islamic Shariah, the direction or order for killing is ap*plicable to those enemies of Islam, engaged in fight against Muslims. It applies to such enemies of Islam who are determined to seize their lands. Not only that they are determined to deny the freedom to pronounce the name of Allah on the earth. So far as peace *loving and non-fighting parsons are concerned, who are not inclined to murder the servants of Allah, nor they are interested in throwing them out of their homes, Islamic Shariah does not recommend or permit Jehad against them.

Prohibition of killing of the aged and worshippers. Even during a battle Islam has strictly forbidden arson, killing of women, children, aged, worshippers and those incapable or participating in the battle. At several places in Holy Quran, it has been emphasized that it should be ensured that those not connected with the battle should not be harmed. Fight should be confined to the participants in the battle. The Prophet (Pbuh) has clearly dissuaded from killing persons not concerned with the battle. "Do not kill the weak, small children, women and aged during the battle."* (Kitab-ul-Jehad by Abu Dawood) .....Islamic jurists have held that even the intention of killing the weak, aged, women and children is unlawful even in the course of battle. Killing the worshippers and priests, who keep aloof from the fight, is forbidden.

Prohibition of Devastation. Islam has strictly forbidden general devastation. Unless it is unavoidable, the fields, orchards and settle*ments should not be destroyed. Killing innocent persons has been declared unlawful. In the present civilized world everything belonging to enemies, although having nothing to do with the battle is targeted for destruction. However, Islam regards that disorder and mischief.

....during the Battle of Khaibar, after Peace Treaty was executed with the people of Khaibar. A few fresher of the Islamic Army beat Jew women, forcibly took away their fruits, took pos*session of their animals and consumed them. The chiefs of the Jews lodged a complaint with the Prophet. The Prophet sternly addressed his soldiers, 'Allah has not held it proper for your that you may enter the houses of men of Books, without their permission and maltreat their women and take possession of their fruits.'
Islam forbids the murder of prisoners. The commitment of Islam to peace is confirmed by the provision that it forbids pursuit of men fleeing from the scene of war.

DDT
30-08-2008, 22:39
From Dar-ul-uloom Deoband, India - who are seriously, unequivocally 100% fundamentalist Islam:
Darul Uloom - Deoband (India) (http://darululoom-deoband.com/english/index.htm)

The Prophet (Pbuh) has strictly forbid assassination .......blah blah blah................................forbids pursuit of men fleeing from the scene of war.


Yeah right! This is the same Muslim sect that the Taliban followed. I think you had better read the fine print when you read anything these guys have to say about themselves.


Deoband teachings emphasize the veiling of women. Women must not mix with men in public. Deoband tradition teaches that men are more intelligent than women and that there is no point in educating girls beyond the age of eight. Students at Darul Uloom may use computers, but may not use the Internet. They are permitted to watch TV news, but may not watch movies.......Most students enter the schools at age five and graduate when they are 25 years old.

So here maybe is part of the root of much of the Islamic conservatism and distrust of our societies in the West, where we accept women as equals and tolerate those who are different. The Darul Uloom supported the actions of the Taliban when they destroyed the Buddhist statues at Bamiyan, despite their status as part of a World Heritage Site. There are 15,000 madrassas in Asia calling themselves "Deoband", 150% more than there were in the 1960's.
Western Resistance: India: Deoband And The Seminaries of Islamic Intolerance of Western Values (http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000383.html)

Following a sting operation, StarTV Channel showed clerics belonging to Darul Uloom Deoband demanding and receiving cash for fatwas. The fatwas issued allegedly mandated that Muslims are not allowed to use credit cards, double beds or camera-equipped cell phones; that Muslims should not act in films, donate their organs or teach their children English; and that Muslim girls should not wear jeans.




And how did they get to be 100% Muslim I wonder? By slaughtering their way across India. Estimates of Hindus slaughtered by Muslim conquest have been anywhere between 80 to 600 Million. They also trashed hundreds of temples along the way and in accordance with usual practice built mosques in their place. All this starting a just a few years after Mohammed died. Glad to see he set his followers on the right course with his own examples of slaughter, before he kicked it.

So how very thoughtful of them to say now that they accept and tolerate other religions and places of worship. Just one big happy family eh? I know I can hardly wait to vacation there.


The Islamic assault on India started in the early 8th century, on the order of Hajjaj, the ruler of present-day Iraq. Starting in 712 the raiders, commanded by Muhammad bin Qasim, demolished temples, shattered sculptures, plundered palaces and killed vast numbers of men.

It took three whole days to slaughter the inhabitants of the city of Debal followed by taking their women and children to slavery, including the taking of young women as sex slaves.

After the initial wave of violence, however, bin Qasim tried to establish law and order in the newly-conquered lands, and to that end he even allowed some degree of religious tolerance. But upon hearing of such humane practices (contrary to the Koranic doctrine), his superior, Hajjaj from Baghdad objected, writing:

"It appears from your letter that all the rules made by you for the comfort and convenience of your men are strictly in accordance with religious law. But the way of granting pardon prescribed by the law is different from the one adopted by you, for you go on giving pardon to everybody, high or low, without any discretion between a friend and a foe. The great God says in the Koran [47.4]: "0 True believers, when you encounter the unbelievers, strike off their heads." The above command of the Great God is a great command and must be respected and followed. You should not be so fond of showing mercy, as to nullify the virtue of the act. Henceforth grant pardon to no one of the enemy and spare none of them, or else all will consider you a weak-minded man."




By the way I can find a quote from Mohammed that contradicts all the quotes that your article has used. Mohammeds’ quotes become meaningless when he contradicts himself all over the Koran.

A muslim’s word is meaningless too! Mohammed gave instructions that it is quite a good thing to lie in an infidel in order further the Islamic cause. Of course you can find the text where he says that lying is a big no-no, too. But it is only to another Muslim that they should not lie.
A Muslim’s peace treaty is not worth the paper it is written on either! Mohammed even coined a word for this principle when,he signed a 10 year peace treaty with Mecca but after 1 year Mohammed became powerful enough to attack, so that’s what he did.

When asked about it by his followers he merely said that it was alright because it furthered Allah’s cause. This is an Islamic principle. This is a princple that if not understood by the West they are doomed to failure in any negotiatings.

Do yourself a favor and don’t take things at face value again!

Transparent Theatre
30-08-2008, 22:57
By the way I can find a quote from Mohammed that contradicts all the quotes that your article has used

No one doubted that for a second.

Your pro-Christian crap has also been repeatedly confronted with Biblical quotations proving direct contradictions too, but you continue to post your empty and vicious claptrap.

DDT
30-08-2008, 23:31
No one doubted that for a second.

Your pro-Christian crap has also been repeatedly confronted with Biblical quotations proving direct contradictions too, but you continue to post your empty and vicious claptrap.I think you are the one who is the proven "empty and vicious claptrap" poster on this site.:jester:

kharon
30-08-2008, 23:40
I think you are the who is the proven "empty and vicious claptrap" poster.:jester:

HEY SOMEONE WILL STOP THIS BULLSHIT??!!!

WHY THE ADMINS STILL LET THIS PROVACATOR POST AGAIN AND AGAIN??
:grind::grind::grind::grind::grind:

DDT
31-08-2008, 00:05
HEY SOMEONE WILL STOP THIS BULLSHIT??!!!

WHY THE ADMINS STILL LET THIS PROVACATOR POST AGAIN AND AGAIN??
:grind::grind::grind::grind::grind:
Would you care to post your opinions in one of the other topics then? We do not have to discuss religion there. We can debate Russian politics if you wish!

kharon
31-08-2008, 00:14
Would you care to post your opinions in one of the other topics then? We do not have to discuss religion there. We can debate Russian politics if you wish!

what I understand from your posts today is
you feel some kind of pathetic pleasure to tease people and being popular
in the forum..

therefore from now on I decided to leave you in your one sided
simple world...

and I really think that admins still can stand with such an uneducated
provakator for raiting purposes...

nothing to say
continue to swear our religion!
this is a free platform in the end...

who can know each and every member
has how many cells in their brains?

MickeyTong
31-08-2008, 01:01
Do yourself a favor and donít take things at face value again!

You have a habit of missing the point....
You wrote that the Crusades were conducted by people who weren't true Christians...
There are people who would say that Islamic terrorists are not true Muslims, hence my reference to Deobandi beliefs about "rules of engagement", and a link to their whole website where their other beliefs are clearly stated.
If the Deobandis are happy to support actions of the Taliban, the enforcement of gender segregation and a host of other Islamic fundamentalist beliefs which non-Muslims find repugnant, they wouldn't be reluctant to hide their support for terrorism and suicide bombing. But they don't endorse these things - they regard them as very un-Islamic.
Their take on Hajjaj is that he was a self-serving tyrant, probably burning in hell. And that today's so-called "martyrs" are nothing more than murderers and suicides....also burning in hell.

You are looking at the world through hate-tainted eyes, DDR. What would Jesus tell you?

DDT
31-08-2008, 02:11
You have a habit of missing the point....
You wrote that the Crusades were conducted by people who weren't true Christians...
First of all, even if it is true that other religions are equally violent, it does not make Islam any less violent. So let us stick with our discussion on Islam.
The main point I was making there is that Jesus did not make war. Mohammed made war, so to bring up the crusades or Christianity is an ineffective rebuttal to one who says that Islam teaches violence.




There are people who would say that Islamic terrorists are not true Muslims, hence my reference to Deobandi beliefs about "rules of engagement", and a link to their whole website where their other beliefs are clearly stated.
If the Deobandis are happy to support actions of the Taliban, the enforcement of gender segregation and a host of other Islamic fundamentalist beliefs which non-Muslims find repugnant, they wouldn't be reluctant to hide their support for terrorism and suicide bombing. But they don't endorse these things - they regard them as very un-Islamic.

I did not miss the point!
Muhammad said that he who does not want to emulate him, is not one of his people (i.e., not a Muslim).

However not all of Muslims are fully aware of the danger their book poses, and many believe their jihad should be done peacefully since the Islamic state today is weak (the same way Muhammad was peaceful when he was weak in Mecca). Historically Islam has another face when strong.

The so-called moderates do not have a different Islam. They simply have less Islam. Ask your moderate Muslim friends, what theological bases can they use to refute the jihadists' interpretation of Islam? They will not and cannot produce anything.

Can you bring me an imam who genuinely repudiates all of the Koran's hateful verses by saying that they are not to be taken literally? And I am referring to an imam who can say it to Muslims in an Islamic state, and not in Canada in the name of taqiyya (deception to nonMuslims)

You need to be aware of the concept of Taqiyya. I touched on this in the previous post.

Al-Tabbarah writes,
"Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good."28
The taqiyya concept is also found in the KOr'an,

Taqiyya, which essentially means to lie for the sake of Islam. The intention is to deceive unbelievers about Islam, for the explicit purpose of assuaging doubts and concerns about Islam, and encouraging conversion. Taqiyya underlies the whole gamut of Muslim propaganda which is disseminated in the West, from the claim that Islam promotes equal rights for women, to the attempts at inflating the perceived number of Muslims. All are designed to draw people to Islam, by hook or by crook.

Taqiyya goes beyond mere lying for propaganda purposes. The word comes from a root meaning "to guard against, to keep (oneself)". It thus also includes dissimulation by the Muslim to give the appearance of not being religious, so as not to arouse suspicion. In this vein, a Muslim, if necessary, may eat pork, drink alcohol, and even verbally deny the Islamic faith, as long as he does not "mean it in his heart". If the end result of the lie is perceived by the Muslim to be good for Islam or useful to bringing someone to "submission" to Allah, then the lie can be sanctioned through taqiyya.

Islamic concept of Al-Taqiyah to infiltrate and destroy kafir countries (http://www.geocities.com/bharatvarsha1947/January_2003/destroykafirs.htm)

Islamic concept of Al-Taqiyah to infiltrate and destroy kafir countries

According to Al-Taqiyah, Muslims were granted the Shar'iyee right (legitimacy) to infiltrate the Dar el-Harb (war zone), infiltrate the enemy's cities and forums and plant the seeds of discord and sedition. These agents were acting on behalf of the Muslim authority at war, and therefore were not considered as lying against or denouncing the tenants of Islam.

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what Muslim groups tell you, especially in English, they will say whatever it is that they need to say at the time.
Therefore; there is only one way to be sure of their intentions, and that is to have a close look at the ACTIONS of Mohammed himself.

Transparent Theatre
31-08-2008, 05:59
First of all, even if it is true that other religions are equally violent, it does not make Islam any less violent. So let us stick with our discussion on Islam.


In other words - you can't answer the points that have been put to you. You just drone on with your rentaquote arguments without answering other people. How rude is that??



[QUOTE=DDT;433679The main point I was making there is that Jesus did not make war. Mohammed made war, so to bring up the crusades or Christianity is an ineffective rebuttal to one who says that Islam teaches violence.[/QUOTE]

You are a gutless liar whose "discussion" is a pathetic joke. You are simply a pro-Christian bigot.

The time is now 5am St Petersburg time, so clearly you don't live there at all - another of your gutless lies. How's the weather in the USA?????????

Reverend
31-08-2008, 07:40
That was incredibly rude.

There is a huge difference between someone making an open offer in the Religion folder -as the first poster has done - and proselytising on open forum, which you do.

He is not trying to ram his religion down anyone's throat, just saying if you want to learn about it here I am. Take it or not.

But I suppose your spiteful little gibe made you happy. Hey, it was just a web link. Click it or don't click it. That's not prostelytizing, either. Sometimes the truth hurts! Those who haven't been inured to the inherent violence and misogyny in it might find the website interesting or helpful in understanding.

kharon
31-08-2008, 12:27
Hey, it was just a web link. Click it or don't click it. That's not prostelytizing, either. Sometimes the truth hurts! Those who haven't been inured to the inherent violence and misogyny in it might find the website interesting or helpful in understanding.

how you can say it is only a link???

IF he gave only the link and said " hey please check the following link
for the details I believe ((with his simple mind)) "

it would be ok.

but he obviously did it with a mocking way.
NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE FUN OF A RELIGION
((EVEN STUPID EVEN SIMPLE MINDED EVEN HAS ONLY ONE CELLED BRAIN AS IN OUR CASE))

PLEASE AND PLEASE STOP REPLYING THIS PROVAKATOR AT ALL!!!HE HITS HIS FOOLISH TARGET WHEN YOU REPLY HIM

DDT
31-08-2008, 12:32
Well, the web-link was removed by the administrator of Expats. You are right, Reverend it was just a web-link and further more it does teach about the Koran and history, sometimes in an amusing way.

I posted the link because I am a moderator myself on another site having to do with languages, and have seen these guys come and go.
I have dealt with scores of posters such as the original poster on this thread and his complaining friend and very rarely do they turn out to be genuinely interested in anything other than telling all us infidels how wonderful their religion is. Every sentence no matter what topic, they will relate somehow to their Guru, complete with a (PBUH) afterwards. It gets tiring.

It seems that I was right about them as not once did they attempt to tackle any of the points I made. They simply label me and shout that they have been wronged but never saying how. Their only goal was and always has been, to silence me or anyone who says different than they. This is the standard tactic of Muslims. Rarely will they debate, ALWAYS they will act the victim and USUALLY some uninformed Westerner will cave in and make a concession.

And what for? We will never hear from these guys again once they have silenced me. Other than to advance their religion they will not be here.

Well, people should know the dark side of Islam before they get sucked into the one-sided view they will get from the original poster, so I posted the link. I could have posted better ones, I suppose, but I didn't feel the need to waste good ammunition on someone who may not be serious anyway. I have a link to a good and serious site made by Ex-muslims for Muslims who are having doubts, who need help (people's lives are at risk) and want to leave Islam and in Arabic and English, if anyone is interested.

So let's all say three cheers in victory for Islam as they have won their victory, and had a post with a link to an opposing view to theirs deleted!!!!

This is how it works, folks, be it Denmark or even the Internet!

Transparent Theatre
31-08-2008, 12:53
I posted the link because I am a moderator myself on another site having to do with languages, and have seen these guys come and go.


Hard to believe.


I have dealt with scores of posters such as the original poster on this thread and his complaining friend and very rarely do they turn out to be genuinely interested in anything other than telling all us infidels how wonderful their religion is. Every sentence no matter what topic, they will relate somehow to their Guru, complete with a (PBUH) afterwards. It gets tiring.

Another pack of gutless lies. The original poster has said no such thing. You are a lying bigot.


It seems that I was right about them as not once did they attempt to tackle any of the points I made. They simply label me and shout that they have been wronged but never saying how.

Another lie. You have refused to discuss the points made to you. You have simply replied with innuendo and ad-hominem attack.

You are a unwelcome troll. You contribute NOTHING to these forums except lies and abuse.

fenrir
31-08-2008, 13:39
NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE FUN OF A RELIGION


I am not taking any sides in this argument but Christianity gets trashed on this site ALL the time and there is not even 1% of the outcry I see here. It gives the strong impression that some on this thread are just trying to be politically correct.

Gypsy
31-08-2008, 13:57
I am not taking any sides in this argument but Christianity gets trashed on this site ALL the time and there is not even 1% of the outcry I see here. It gives the strong impression that some on this thread are just trying to be politically correct.
Christianity is not being trashed here.

DDT started attacking a someone who offered to help teach a number ofthings,one of which was the Koran.The poster did not post anything from that book, he just mentioned its name.

This was enough to motivate DDT to start one of his customary rants against Islam. Why? the initial poster had not invited a discussion about the merits or otherwise of Islam - and for the record I believe ALL religion to be evil, Islam is no worse than christianity.

Perhaps if christians feel so persecuted they should stop breaking Forum rules against proselytising?

kharon
31-08-2008, 14:06
I am not taking any sides in this argument but Christianity gets trashed on this site ALL the time and there is not even 1% of the outcry I see here. It gives the strong impression that some on this thread are just trying to be politically correct.

hey logic there is very simple

1- I did not write no one has a right to make fun of ISLAM.
I made a general statement

2- If someone try to make fun of christianity or any other belief, I again oppose it, but I am sure that there are many other people who have much more rights to say something for their religions.

3- why are you trying to fire another nonsense debate here?

pls respect all the religions! that is what I am saying.

look at "gypsy", he stands against this nonsense bullshit like he is a believer, but finally he said he has nothing to do with religion (at least I understood like this).
this is the true respect !
respecting the others while you are not in that group!

MickeyTong
31-08-2008, 14:19
I am not taking any sides in this argument but Christianity gets trashed on this site ALL the time and there is not even 1% of the outcry I see here. It gives the strong impression that some on this thread are just trying to be politically correct.


Christianity gets trashed here by people who originate from Christian cultures, so there isn't too much of an outcry.
When Americans criticise the US, there isn't as much outcry as when foreigners do the same.
When Russians criticise Russia, ditto.
When Brits slag off the UK, likewise.
Criticism of The Republicans by Republicans won't generate too much ire, either.
Fayez's original post in this thread just introduced himself and offered to teach Arabic and Koran to anyone who is interested. DDT responded with an insult, although his smug self-righteousness prevents him from recognising this.

DDT
31-08-2008, 14:36
DDT started attacking a someone who offered to help teach a number ofthings,one of which was the Koran.The poster did not post anything from that book, he just mentioned its name.

This was enough to motivate DDT to start one of his customary rants against Islam. Why? the initial poster had not invited a discussion about the merits or otherwise of Islam -
Firstly, I have not ranted nor attacked the poster. I have supplied evidence and quotes and historical facts. None of which has been disputed and given your reaction even properly read and understood.

Secondly, I simply posted a link also supplying teachings of the Koran. I also did not post anything from the book.



I call for equality and dignity of all people.

I criticize Islam because it fails to do so.

Some examples that are still practised today: It treats women as second-class persons who can be beaten (Quran 4:34) and raped as war booty (e.g., Quran 23:6). According to Islam, women are deficient in intelligence, most of hell's dwellers will be women, and they are ungrateful to their husbands (Sahih Bukhari 2:24:541). Islam says men have a degree of advantage over women (Quran 2:228). I am only naming a few examples here.

Islam says that women are the worst of creatures (Quran 98:6). It says women are to be treated as a dhimmi if you do not submit to Islam (Quran 9:29, Sahih Muslim 19:4294).

I condemn this.

Why do you then worry that my message can cause hostility? If I were to condemn Mein Kampf, would you worry I am causing hostility toward Nazis?







Islam is no worse than christianity.
This type of generalization needs to be supported with evidence if you want it to be taken seriously.





Perhaps if christians feel so persecuted they should stop breaking Forum rules against proselytizing?
As far as I know there has been no christian proselytizing on this site!

DDT
31-08-2008, 15:09
Christianity gets trashed here by people who originate from Christian cultures, so there isn't too much of an outcry.
When Americans criticise the US, there isn't as much outcry as when foreigners do the same.
When Russians criticise Russia, ditto.
When Brits slag off the UK, likewise.
Criticism of The Republicans by Republicans won't generate too much ire, either.
Fayez's original post in this thread just introduced himself and offered to teach Arabic and Koran to anyone who is interested. DDT responded with an insult, although his smug self-righteousness prevents him from recognising this.

Who else can criticize Islam? Muslim's are prevented, sometimes even on penalty of death!!!!!!

So only the communist party should criticize the communist party, nazis should criticize nazis, Pol Pot should criticize Pol Pot?

Now show me where the "insult" was.

Tell me how he is prevented from teaching the Koran.

Furthermore, if he only wanted to offer a service and not receive any talk on the subject he posted in the wrong forum and should have posted one of the others more suitable for those offering services and lessons.


He posted in a discussion forum and that is what we have but he wants no discussion that he doesn't agree with!

If the original post concerned the Bible and I had offered facts illuminating the Bible negatively .....you would have said nothing!!!!!!

MickeyTong
31-08-2008, 15:17
[QUOTE=DDT;433839If the original post concerned the Bible and I had offered facts illuminating the Bible negatively .....you would have said nothing!!!!!![/QUOTE]

That's true. And if an ex-Muslim wrote something critical about Islam, I would have agreed with him, or her.

You really do miss the point, don't you?

fenrir
31-08-2008, 15:55
I told you all I wasn't taking sides and I stand by my comment. If you all don't like the bashing of one religion (Islam in this case), then be consistent and be against the bashing of ALL religions without making excuses because once you make an excuse for attacking one religion (Christianity, for example), then you open the door for all the others to get hit.

kharon, I am not trying to start a 'nonsense debate' as you put it, but am making a very valid point. Someone who is against bashing Islam but has no problems bashing Christianity is just a different kind of bigot.

DDT
31-08-2008, 16:12
That's true. And if an ex-Muslim wrote something critical about Islam, I would have agreed with him, or her.

You really do miss the point, don't you?
No I just covered that in my last post!

Furthermore, this is the Internet, you don't know who I am or what I believe. I have never stated! Some have erroneously asserted that I am Christian, of that, even I am not sure.

But since you will only listen to an ex-muslim read these sites. Ex-muslims speak out.
Some of the information I have already posted came from Ex-muslims.


Faith Freedom International (http://www.faithfreedom.org/)
Islam Watch - About Us (http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm)


Faith Freedom International is a grassroots movement of those who asked prohibited questions and on that account lost their faith. We came to see that Islam is a hoax, an imperialistic ideology, disguised as religion, invented by a narcissist for his own personal gains. We found out that Muhammad was a conman, a ventriloquist who projected his own words into his imaginary dummy deity to fool the gullible.


Now here is a video in which, along with some other speakers, another Ex-muslim and self proclaimed ex-terrorist speaks. It is long, so I suggest you watch it sometime when you have time, with a bottle of scotch and a pack of Camel Lights.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION

Gypsy
31-08-2008, 16:33
No I just covered that in my last post!

Furthermore, this is the Internet, you don't know who I am or what I believe. I have never stated! Some have erroneously asserted that I am Christian, of that, even I am not sure.

But since you will only listen to an ex-muslim read these sites. Ex-muslims speak out.
Some of the information I have already posted came from Ex-muslims.


Faith Freedom International (http://www.faithfreedom.org/)
Islam Watch - About Us (http://www.islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm)



Now here is a video in which, along with some other speakers, another Ex-muslim and self proclaimed ex-terrorist speaks. It is long, so I suggest you watch it sometime when you have time, with a bottle of scotch and a pack of Camel Lights.

Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781)
And you're not proselytising?

Run that one by me again.

Gypsy
31-08-2008, 17:17
I am not taking any sides in this argument but Christianity gets trashed on this site ALL the time and there is not even 1% of the outcry I see here. It gives the strong impression that some on this thread are just trying to be politically correct.
A couple of points -I certainly do try to be politically correct, something I believe to be a good thing. Its abuse, as with abuse of anything is bad and regrettable.

Christianity being trashed ALL the time? That is a joke surely. And certainly not true. That religion and its followers own and control just about every media outlet in the western world,it is impossible to become elected in the USA without pious statements about how christian you are, and you complain about a few posts on a small website?? Extraordinary.

FYI - when another poster, a moslem, posted a long pro moslem rant I complained about that too - maybe MrDDT should stop taking every opportunity to ram his religion down our throats and stop attacking every moslem who posts? Sowing and reaping.

Just a thought.

MissAnnElk
31-08-2008, 17:18
Secondly, I simply posted a link also supplying teachings of the Koran. I also did not post anything from the book.

Your link was to a satirical site (you know that, right?). That's what made it look like a nasty response to the original poster's sincere introduction.

albina
31-08-2008, 17:47
"OUR STUPID tWONK" Mr. bush ! Haven't the British people suffered enough also ? IT seems you have been living under a rock , or else CNN was showing fiction when the Koran followers were burning down France ! That is why I want my daughter out of here ! My wife lived near Turkmenistan in the early part of her life and knows them better than all of the fools running the government. We will NEVER be equal, this is a dream world. One man and woman have been VERY nice at the arab store I bought my tea at near me. But some wear beards like that man on CNN talking about let's burn down London. I believe one should not wear KKK attire, or Nazi uniforms or dress like Ben Laden. People DO get offended ! If one wants to howl at the moon in HIS OWN FLAT o.k. ALSO (not my words) but I do remember one of the commandments was "Thou shall not have false Gods before me". God will pass judgement on these people, when the time comes, per Nostradamus. I want people like we see on CNN or BBC....

DDT
31-08-2008, 18:14
Your link was to a satirical site (you know that, right?). That's what made it look like a nasty response to the original poster's sincere introduction.

If you surf the site you will find Quranic quotes and stories and sayings of Mohammed of the most unbelievable and moronic magnitude. These are direct quotes. One that comes to mind is where Mohammed, noticing that neither rats nor Jews drink camels milk, infers that it is because some Jews have turned into rats. The logical mind walks away from one that makes this ridiculous assumption.

How does one teach the truth about a book like this, that is actually taken seriously enough for so much bloodshed?

The web-site has chosen to to expose the Koran with jocularity and humor, the same way Mel Brooks makes fun of nazis in his movies. What is wrong with that?

Gypsy
31-08-2008, 18:35
If you surf the site you will find Quranic quotes and stories and sayings of Mohammed of the most unbelievable and moronic magnitude. These are direct quotes. One that comes to mind is where Mohammed, noticing that neither rats nor Jews drink camels milk, infers that it is because some Jews have turned into rats. The logical mind walks away from one that makes this ridiculous assumption.

How does one teach the truth about a book like this, that is actually taken seriously enough for so much bloodshed?

The web-site has chosen to to expose the Koran with jocularity and humor, the same way Mel Brooks makes fun of nazis in his movies. What is wrong with that?
Mel Brooks makes fun of nazis because by ridiculing them you reduce people's fear of them and you deny them power.

Again - Fayez was not seeking to make converts - as you do - he was not making any attempt to sell his religion, as you do, he didn't post a single word from his book, he asked if anyone was interested. Up to them.

You then saw fit to push this site ridiculing the Koran. Why? You display the intolerance your religion is famed for. 2000 years of destruction of knowledge, book burning, violence, war and terror.You are a perfect disciple for your religion.

DDT
31-08-2008, 19:03
Mel Brooks makes fun of nazis because by ridiculing them you reduce people's fear of them and you deny them power.
No! Brooks makes fun of Nazis firstly because, he can, without fear of execution, because they were already defeated militarily and are NOW seen by the world in the true light of despots they were. And Secondly because now we find it hard to believe that those morons ever had any power. The situation is ripe for a send-up.

On the other hand people that make fun of Islam, STILL routinely end up DEAD!



Again - Fayez was not seeking to make converts - as you do - he was not making any attempt to sell his religion, as you do, he didn't post a single word from his book, he asked if anyone was interested. Up to them.
1 Again, where have I made an attempt to sell "my" religion?
2 What is "my" religion?
3 How do you know he was not seeking to make converts?
4 If he did not want a debate and only want to provide a service, then why didn't he post in the Services Forum?


You then saw fit to push this site ridiculing the Koran. Why? You display the intolerance your religion is famed for. 2000 years of destruction of knowledge, book burning, violence, war and terror.You are a perfect disciple for your religion.
Again: What is "my religion'?
2 What does "my religion" have to do with the Koran, Mohammed or Islam?

Korotky Gennady
31-08-2008, 20:08
No! Brooks makes fun of Nazis firstly because, he can, without fear of execution, because they were already defeated militarily and are NOW seen by the world in the true light of despots they were.



I'm sorry but the sad truth is that that it was your american government who at first made the poor german people to be nazis and after that it was your american capitalists who helped Hitler to take the power in Germany.

It all was your american guilt again...

Your american capitalists robbered Germany in Versal in 1919-1920 year and so after Hitler used the fair rage of the common german people who were robbered by americans and their allies after WW1.

MissAnnElk
31-08-2008, 20:45
If you surf the site you will find Quranic quotes and stories and sayings of Mohammed . . .

The web-site has chosen to to expose the Koran with jocularity and humor, the same way Mel Brooks makes fun of nazis in his movies. What is wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with satire. The site is clearly a joke, same as the Overland Baptist site, which uses real Bible quotes to poke fun at fundamentalist Christianity.

MissAnnElk
31-08-2008, 20:47
4 If he did not want a debate and only want to provide a service, then why didn't he post in the Services Forum?

Because he's a newbie? And the services area can be a little complicated to use because it looks different.

fenrir
31-08-2008, 22:14
I'm sorry but the sad truth is that that it was your american government who at first made the poor german people to be nazis and after that it was your american capitalists who helped Hitler to take the power in Germany.

It all was your american guilt again...

Your american capitalists robbered Germany in Versal in 1919-1920 year and so after Hitler used the fair rage of the common german people who were robbered by americans and their allies after WW1.

France was the main culprit there, both in the creation of the Versailles Treaty and in implementing it. It was their payback for the Franco-Prussian War.

MissAnnElk
31-08-2008, 22:19
All of us have totally hijacked this thread.

If you are interested in Arabic language and literature lessons, PM the original poster.

Thread closed.